LGBT Rights in Africa ~ Opinions

[Luxxor]

Duh. But you don't criminalise something you don't care about. Clearly they care quite a lot.

Tribal beliefs are based on the explanation of the natural world. Homosexuality doesn't fit into the natural world in their belief system.

Yes its backward and primitive.

[Mormolyce]

Wanting to change it because it doesn't fit your moral codes is horrible

That's what morals are. Wanting to change something you see as an injustice.

You just basically said that morals are horrible.

[Deleted]

At present most of Africa (with the notable exception being South Africa) presents some of the worst LGTB Rights in the world. In several countries homosexual men and women face heavy criminal penalties dependent on country. From as little to five years to execution. While I'm not implying everyone should be obligated socially to accept those of bisexual, homosexual and transsexual status, but can we as the West and East stand to criticize Russia when you habe Northern Nigerians men possibly being executed for their sexual orientation?

I'm no way saying that we should "save" the entire continent of Africa, but faster developing African nations like those of Ghana, Kenya and Nigeria imo could be potentially pressured into allowing more libertarian values for it's citizens.

That's an interesting claim. Although LGBT rights do to some extent overlap with libertarian values, the LGBT movement is a left-wing movement, not a libertarian one.

Keep that in mind.

[Xargoth6634]

A similar issue is that of female genital mutilation/cutting. Is it right that 7+ year old girls have their genitals carved up due to longstanding cultural practices, when they have no say in the matter? Many (myself included) would argue no. That's the tough balance, human rights versus the autonomy of these groups and nations.

[Techno-Druid]

Africans are probably too busy trying not to die from disease, starvation, local warlords, terrorism and other bullshit to worry about gays. I mean that. It may be hard for the ignorant left and progressives to understand but there are actual problems in the world and they matter a lot more than gay characters in video games. Africa is a place with lots of those. Gay rights are absolutely nowhere near as important as having basic education, economic stability, food, medicine and security from warlords, terrorists and desperate criminals. Get real.

You get real, despite what you watch on TV, Africa isn't just some Warlord rampant shithole filled with ebola and AIDS. There are certainly and definitely those in parts of Africa, but there are plenty of African nations in Southern, Western and Eastern Africa that have woken up and are trying to better themselves and the rights of their people.

I'm a libertarian transhumanist, I believe most of everyone should have the rights to be free of ethnic, religious, sexual orientational and political descrimination if we are the evolve as a species.

[Nachturnal]

I can see your points, but there are certainly more, should I say, progressive countries such as Ghana and Kenya that are close allies with the US, UK and West that could be urged to improve their LGBT rights.

Some African Nations are evolving, others are just lost causes that'll either destroy themselves or be conquered by China

Of course there are countries that stand out and are progressing slowly but surely. But it still doesn't mean we should put our 2 cents in. Strong arming isn't going to do much other than cause dissent. Change should come from within. It is their culture, so it is their's to change.

We've already done the whole, "Big Brother West", tactic before and it's done more damage than good.

[Hana Song]

That's what morals are. Wanting to change something you see as an injustice.

You just basically said that morals are horrible.

Changing an entire continents culture and morality based on your own never works out well

[Mormolyce]

Tribal beliefs are based on the explanation of the natural world. Homosexuality doesn't fit into the natural world in their belief system.

Yes its backward and primitive.

It does and animism doesn't cause homophobia. But that's all beside the point we were discussing.

[PC2]

Sure there is. "Horrible thing happens in Africa, news at 11!" - we're all used to that so nobody bats an eye. We expect better if developed nations.

I guess some people want drama news everyday, I don't really follow news like that very much, unless it is part of a larger trend.

[Mormolyce]

Changing an entire continents culture and morality based on your own never works out well

How do you think we changed Europe's culture?

Anyway the alternative is to sit back and watch horrific injustices occur.

[Techno-Druid]

A similar issue is that of female genital mutilation/cutting. Is it right that 7+ year old girls have their genitals carved up due to longstanding cultural practices, when they have no say in the matter? Many (myself included) would argue no. That's the tough balance, human rights versus the autonomy of these groups and nations.

Thank you for bringing another issue up. West Africa seems like the place in Sub-Saharan Africa most pressed with Islamic Radicalism. Although some other factions go into that as well I would assume.

[Hana Song]

How do you think we changed Europe's culture?

Anyway the alternative is to sit back and watch horrific injustices occur.

Change in europe came from within, not external sources forcing their views on them

[Mormolyce]

Of course there are countries that stand out and are progressing slowly but surely. But it still doesn't mean we should put our 2 cents in. Strong arming isn't going to do much other than cause dissent. Change should come from within. It is their culture, so it is their's to change.

We've already done the whole, "Big Brother West", tactic before and it's done more damage than good.

Sure but "sit back and let them work it out... eventually... maybe..." does zero good.

[Luxxor]

Sure but "sit back and let them work it out... eventually... maybe..." does zero good.

What exactly did you have in mind?

Military intervention?

Massive Aid to promote awareness?

Visit from the Pope?

[Techno-Druid]

Changing an entire continents culture and morality based on your own never works out well

I think the point here is nobody is advocating for Nigerians to dress in kimonos while sitting down for a nice eloquently set up tea party to later spend the day shooting cans and making moonshine.

Just encouragement and non-militant aid to a government that has more freedom for it's citizens.

[Mormolyce]

Change in europe came from within, not external sources forcing their views on them

It took centuries of social turmoil, war and violence. It absolutely required force. Internal and external is irrelevant. Countries are just lines on a map backed up by historical accident and force of arms.

In any case if you were on the losing side of the cultural wars in Europe in the last 300 years or so you damn sure would've felt forced to change by outsiders to your socio-cultural circle.

[Techno-Druid]

What exactly did you have in mind?

Military intervention?

Massive Aid to promote awareness?

Visit from the Pope?

You may be on to something with that last thing...

[Hana Song]

It centuries of social turmoil, war and violence. It absolutely required force. Internal and external is irrelevant. Countries are just lines on a map backed up by historical accident and force of arms.

In any case if you were on the losing side of the cultural wars in Europe in the last 300 years or so you damn sure would've felt forced to change by outsiders to your socio-cultural circle.

When was there a war to get lgbt people accepted in europe? That change came from within, not from war or external sources

[Mormolyce]

What exactly did you have in mind?

Military intervention?

Massive Aid to promote awareness?

Visit from the Pope?

No what I'm saying is that there are no easy answers and if you brush it off with trite lines like "no good comes from interfering" the price you pay is having to sit back and watch as injustices and atrocities occur while you do nothing.

Your choices are interventionism or non interventionism and both are plagued with moral hazards.

[Techno-Druid]

When was there a war to get lgbt people accepted in europe? That change came from within, not from war or external sources

Tbh Europe was always a little day before you know Christianity made Europe it's bitch. Celts and Romans are examples that hit my mind.

(Note: This is not in any way, shape or form to insult Europe. I love Europe, I have family in Europe)