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  1. #41
    So sorry for seeming like a bit of a dunce here, but does that mean weights are essentially Haste > Vers > Mastery > Crit?


    The amount of work this took is pretty awesome Geodew, nice work.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Slakos View Post
    If you were to used named cells it would be so much easier to look at figure out what you are doing. Without the cells lighting up since it's multi page spreadsheet its a real pain to follow.

    https://support.google.com/docs/answer/63175?hl=en

    Rather than something being.
    =(60/Truths!$F$12) * Truths!$F$68 * (2*Truths!$F$20 + Truths!$F$23 + Truths!$F$21*(FLOOR((Truths!$F$66-Truths!$F$43-Truths!$F$48)/Truths!$F$41))) * Intermediates!$F$23

    It would be

    =(60/CooldownManaTeasec)*ManaTeaManaCostReduction*(2*ManaCostEssenceFontmana+ManaCostRenewingMi stmana+ManaCostVivifymana*(FLOOR((DurationManaTeasec - CasttimeEssenceFontsec - CasttimeRenewingMistsec)/CasttimeVivifysec)))*Valuefrom1Manaspellpower

    - - - Updated - - -

    Whats the idea behind Value from 1 Mana (% spellpower)? Is it just that you would replace soothings with vivifys if you had more mana?
    I've thought about naming cells, but there would be a lot of cells to name and they would have long names, making the formulas also really long. Not sure yet.

    And yes. Or whatever high-mana-cost and low-mana-cost fillers the spec uses.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Magicmooch View Post
    So sorry for seeming like a bit of a dunce here, but does that mean weights are essentially Haste > Vers > Mastery > Crit?
    Thanks. But no, for raids, below mana cap is more likely, meaning vers > crit > mastery > haste (for now). The probability that this could change is pretty high, though. For example, the 33% ReM nerf decreases Haste's value by ~10%, and they'll continue to tweak other aspects of the spec that will change stat weights.
    Legion Mistweaver Stat Weights SPREADSHEET --- Stat weights DISCUSSION THREAD
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  3. #43
    Updated for Alpha Build 21414
    - RSK Mana Cost updated from 2% to 3% of base max mana (It is no longer optimal for HPS to use RSK on cooldown given you are talented into Rising Thunder (it may still be worth the DPS gains, maybe depending on fight or raid comp)).
    ---> A Rising Thunder rotation where RSK is only used during downtime (i.e. in lieu of TP or BOK casts) may be worth consideration now, but it's unlikely to be a significant DPS or HPS gain. Theorycraft on this may follow if I find the time and/or fucks-given to calculate it.
    Legion Mistweaver Stat Weights SPREADSHEET --- Stat weights DISCUSSION THREAD
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  4. #44
    Updated for Beta Build 21874
    - Updated mana costs and spellpower coefficients from legion.wowhead.com (Did anything else change?)
    Legion Mistweaver Stat Weights SPREADSHEET --- Stat weights DISCUSSION THREAD
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  5. #45
    Thanks for this great work!
    I like the idea of spreadsheet expecially because changes the values in the function of your gear, a lot of people ignore the decay usually.

    Anyway, I loved your post in wod because of his explanations!
    For example, for now I don't understand why this big difference on the mastery value between raid and 5-man, and for haste what mean below/above mana cap with the new mana change: It depends by the kind of fight, farm/progress long/short? and Is included the vantage of more burst?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by sylar9210 View Post
    Thanks for this great work!
    I like the idea of spreadsheet expecially because changes the values in the function of your gear, a lot of people ignore the decay usually.

    Anyway, I loved your post in wod because of his explanations!
    For example, for now I don't understand why this big difference on the mastery value between raid and 5-man, and for haste what mean below/above mana cap with the new mana change: It depends by the kind of fight, farm/progress long/short? and Is included the vantage of more burst?
    Yeah, I'll have to explain all of that at some point, but I was focusing on actually finishing it first. Theorycrafting Legion's mechanics haven been harder (more complicated equations) than WoD's. If you're super curious, you can click the cells and follow the equations. Everything is labeled.

    Mana cap means the same thing as it used to, I believe already explained earlier in this thread too.
    Legion Mistweaver Stat Weights SPREADSHEET --- Stat weights DISCUSSION THREAD
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  7. #47
    So, when tuesday comes, all my MS is going to go into the worst stat possible?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Grovewalker View Post
    So, when tuesday comes, all my MS is going to go into the worst stat possible?
    From what people are saying on Discord, yes, MS will turn into Haste. At least Spirit turns into Versatility, I think.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    Before anyone asks about pre-patch weights:
    I'll need to browse logs and gear in detail before I can finalize the stat weights, so they will not be ready immediately. Probably week 2.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    From what people are saying on Discord, yes, MS will turn into Haste. At least Spirit turns into Versatility, I think.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    Before anyone asks about pre-patch weights:
    I'll need to browse logs and gear in detail before I can finalize the stat weights, so they will not be ready immediately. Probably week 2.
    OHHH ok, I thought MS was going into Versa >.<
    Haste is a good stat for the Legion toolkit though, isnt it?

  10. #50
    Sheet is amazing, thank you so much.

    One inquiry, perhaps I'm a bit slow here. I can't click the Sort Descending buttons in tab one. How do I enable script access to do so?

    And if I understand, until Haste is figured out for 5mans, mastery is king, then crit and vers are extremely close?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Grovewalker View Post
    OHHH ok, I thought MS was going into Versa >.<
    Haste is a good stat for the Legion toolkit though, isnt it?
    Haste is good for DPS. Rising Thunder benefits strongly from Haste, but it's not nearly enough to push it into viability, as far as I can tell without giving it a try myself. (Note that I was unable to participate in beta raid testing.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Sheet is amazing, thank you so much.

    One inquiry, perhaps I'm a bit slow here. I can't click the Sort Descending buttons in tab one. How do I enable script access to do so?
    I'm actually not sure; I was prompted to enable scripts when I created them. Maybe you could google it and share with us once you figure it out? No one else has reported any issues sorting (but that doesn't mean they've tried).

    I believe the scripts are open-source, and they're very short, so it should be easy for an experienced user to verify that they're harmless to your computer (duh).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    And if I understand, until Haste is figured out for 5mans, mastery is king, then crit and vers are extremely close?
    Yeap. Haste may be pretty decent considering the heavier focus on EM in dungeons. Note, also, that the weights depend on your current stats -- if Crit is much more common, versatility will pull ahead further due to diminishing returns, like it almost has in WoD. The stats from gear are equal in the spreadsheet currently, but since base Crit is 6% whereas base Vers is 0%, Vers starts out slightly ahead.
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  12. #52
    Warchief Supliftz's Avatar
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    Mistwrap playstyle itself heavily benefits from haste, because a lot of the output is coming from UT vivify, enm, rem and soothing.

    Haste is also by far the best stat in 5 mans, as you need faster casts to actually heal through the burst damage, mana is irrelevant, and dps is important.
    Last edited by Supliftz; 2016-07-18 at 06:54 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    Mistwrap playstyle itself heavily benefits from haste, because a lot of the output is coming from UT vivify, enm, rem and soothing.
    I wonder about that. The increased mana expenditure puts a heavy damper on Haste's benefit, at least if mana is a concern. I feel like I need more experience with the new spec to confirm that, though, which is why I need a week to check out more logs and finalize several estimations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    Haste is also by far the best stat in 5 mans, as you need faster casts to actually heal through the burst damage, mana is irrelevant, and dps is important.
    Agreed. In the context of this spreadsheet, Suplift is saying you would normally use the "above mana cap" weight that is forthcoming for 5-mans, due to mana being irrelevant, which is typically quite high (and I expect it to be high).
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  14. #54
    Warchief Supliftz's Avatar
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    I wouldn't really put haste above crit, I just think you would go crit > haste if mana is relevant.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    Agreed. In the context of this spreadsheet, Suplift is saying you would normally use the "above mana cap" weight that is forthcoming for 5-mans, due to mana being irrelevant, which is typically quite high (and I expect it to be high).
    It's not even just that. EnM + ReM scale rather well of haste throughput wise, and chi-ji is a powerful cooldown with horn of valor for big trash pulls, and he scales really well with haste.
    Last edited by Supliftz; 2016-07-18 at 07:08 AM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Supliftz View Post
    It's not even just that. EnM + ReM scale rather well of haste throughput wise, and chi-ji is a powerful cooldown with horn of valor for big trash pulls, and he scales really well with haste.
    Right, but that's why the weight would be high. HoTs scaling up their throughput per-cast is included in the spreadsheet for raids already. Talents aren't, but they could be eventually (allow the user to select a talent setup and adjust weights accordingly).
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  16. #56
    I main MW right now, and pretty much carry my raid for all 13 mythic bosses with my throughput..I guess my concern was how my healing is going to look this next month when all my MS is converted into a stat that apparently is only good for 5 mans. (I regret not preparing a new gear set for this, rawr) I guess it doesn't matter that much in the bigger picture, though, especially with the 30% nerf to HFC and whatnot. Thanks for the replies, Geodew

  17. #57
    Updated stat weights, should be a bit more accurate now, but log sample size is still very low so things could change https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...bOU/edit#gid=0
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  18. #58
    so, since our mana regen won't change for the whole expansion, does that mean we will always be below mana cap ? or above ? this part seems a bit confusing to me

    regardless of mana cap or not haste then crit seems the best option since we got lots of hots, imo

    iirc versatility requires the most stats for 1% ? isnt it like 375 vers for 1%? (at 110) or its tied/lower than crit, can't remember the numbers.. can't find them either

  19. #59
    Warchief Supliftz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiphess View Post
    so, since our mana regen won't change for the whole expansion, does that mean we will always be below mana cap ? or above ? this part seems a bit confusing to me

    regardless of mana cap or not haste then crit seems the best option since we got lots of hots, imo

    iirc versatility requires the most stats for 1% ? isnt it like 375 vers for 1%? (at 110) or its tied/lower than crit, can't remember the numbers.. can't find them either
    Kinda. Obviously they can introduce trinkets that increase your regen total, introduce more fights with mana returns, you could have multiple innervates, or fights could become shorter. All those things are factors in mana caps for haste.

    An example of haste being strong would be on fights lasting ~2-3 minutes, or a fight like Tichondrius where you effectively have infinite mana, meaning haste has an extremely high value.

  20. #60
    Hi there, I was searching through your sheet to reconcile the RT versus FT question that has been bothering me and I have a couple of questions regarding the formulas on your talent tab.

    For Focused Thunder, you're able to cast two empowered spells back to back but the formula only seems to count one. Is that intended?

    For Rising Thunder, you're taking away the contribution of TFT instead of adding it, plus I'm not seeing the interaction of a multiplier to account for the additional TFTs you get from performing your RSK with BOK rotation. Is that the first term? If so, why isn't it being interacted with the TFT term on a positive basis?

    I also think at the beginning of the formula for Rising Thunder there is a typo, why aren't you multiplying the amount of RSKs you can cast per minute to the second term (the reset multiplier) instead of adding the two terms together?

    ((60/Truths!$F$11) + 1*(Main!$J$15*Truths!$F$63*Truths!$F$64)

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