Colossal Prune Confirmed

[Mlz]

Your argument is clear and concise with strong backing and is very compelling.

You will always have cookiecutter talentbuilds where one talent will do generally better than the others, nevermind the fact that half of the talents are (going to be) passive. So - you choose 1 talent in each row, probably gain 2 spells you have to use on cd and be done with it. Now, if you got all the talents as spells, you'd convert into a pretty big priority system and you would suddenly have to re-evaluate priorities as soon as any of the circumstances changes (which can happen multiple times during a boss fight aswell). You could still do potentially alright by just using general spells, but adding the depth would make the skillcap way way higher, which also plays a role in how engaging a game can potentially be. I'm far from being a very good player but I'd much rather have average players do average dps (sufficient enough to do most of the things in game), and leave the cutting edge players (in terms of skill) the potential to do dps which could be completely on another level.

[fakaroonie]

I remember when my warlock had 52 keybinds, still have the screenshot. Nostalgia or not, I guess Garrosh was right: Times change... In a bad way imo.

[Ringthane]

I came here expecting this.

Me too. Although, since the OP is spending his time trolling up the forums with multiple versions of the same thread, maybe he'll get around to it eventually.

[DeadmanWalking]

Only a filthy casual would say this.

/thread

I'm actually a raider, see the requisite to be a raider is to raid, it is not required that you blame casuals for -everything- to be a raider. But look out, that casual boogeyman is hiding under your bed!

[DeadmanWalking]

I mean, it appears we're looking at a blood DK here.

What's missing?
Icy Touch? Unholy Strike? Soul Reaper? Super exciting abilities that rarely get used if at all.

And I see several extra abilities you could have talented in but didn't.

All op did was log in and take a screenshot rather than look and see why he was missing abilities because that would not support the narrative they made up in thier heads as fact.

[lanesia24]

The end result is what matters. Is it fun? Is there enough depth? I know my warlock has a ton of abilities right now, but how many are actually used during combat on a consistent basis? I think some of you people would have happy if they had 80 buttons in the game and 60 of them did nothing at all just because there's a lot of buttons. I think active combat should be based around a handful of skills you use regularly with maybe a few that you don't use often other than a few times a fight such as cooldowns and the like. As of right now with my affliction warlock that doesn't use that many spells often during combat there's enough depth to it that there's large differences between good and bad players. Classes don't need to have 20 different buttons that are used all the time.

Obviously they can overdo it but hopefully the end result will be engaging rotation and with enough depth to differentiate between good and bad players.

[Deleted]

I don't know where this influx of people who decry more than 5 abilitis on their hotbar come from, but I presume the crowd who started online gaming with LoL are catching up to MMOs.

I started playing WoW in vanilla. I used 46 keybinds for spells in Burning Crusade. I think 5 damage dealing abilities are enough as a baseline. Talents shoud offer interesting passives to intertwine rotations in various ways, or new active abilities to the same effect.

[xindralol]

MRW OP clearly doesn't understand that a lot of abilities isn't automatically good for the game: yourprofilepicture.jpg

In WoW, yeah it is ... just compare wrath gameplay with the shit we have to play today.

[Thimagryn]

This post is a joke in so many ways. MMOs are not MOBAs. Completely different genre.

Lots of flashy buttons doesn't define the MMO genre, so talking about genre is also irrelevant.

GW2 is effectively an MMO and gives you all of 8 active abilities at a time, some of which are cooldown abilities.

[Saltybone]

I think it can be balanced out with good class mechanics. World of Macrocraft can chill a bit.

[arel00]

In WoW, yeah it is ... just compare wrath gameplay with the shit we have to play today.

You mean the expansion where a Holy Paladin could literally stack intellect and spam one spell to heal through every raid, or Arcane Mages having 2 buttons? Yeah, such good times.

[Darsithis]

OP didn't complete his spec talents, didn't get to max level in alpha, didn't fill out the artifact weapon tree, complains not enough buttons. Sounds like a legit MMOchamp thread, now if only we could blame 'filthy casuals' and it would definately be a mmochamp thread.

No kidding.

With my talents and the first tier on my weapons as a frost DK set up, I have 16 keybinds. My rotation is simple, still - OB, HB, FS dump for runes, but I've got some situational AOE and some cooldowns (DP, PoF, IBF)

[vulena]

Heroes is a MOBA. WoW is a mmoRPG. With RPGs, you generally have a huge plethora of abilities. Granted, while active rotational abilities don't matter much if they are pruned or not, situational utility abilities DO matter for a RPG.

Main point is that its a fallacy to compare WoW to Heroes for number of buttons.

Fine - compare it to GW2, which has 5 buttons per weapon. Compare it to Wildstar, which as a ton of abilities, but only up to 10 (maybe less? I can't remember, definitely not more than 10) are usable on the bars at the same time.

Plenty of MMOs work perfectly well with fewer buttons.

[Puzzony]

Me too. Although, since the OP is spending his time trolling up the forums with multiple versions of the same thread, maybe he'll get around to it eventually.

Thus, the anti-Jaylock has born. He, who will bring balance between fanboyism and negative trolling in the mmoc-force!

[DeadlyConqueror]

As a ret paladin, the only spells i really use when fighting (not including utility abilities like Lay on Hands) Are Judgement, Exorcism, Crusader Strike, Final Verdict and Avenging Wrath. LOL. Moba style gameplay is in the game already, but if you look at the talent calculator, we get more active abilities as ever before.

[Ygorl]

I came here expecting this.

Ha! Me too, precisely. Now I don't have to find a picture.

[Raiju]

Fury warriors are fun. You're welcome.

Then you can go play fury as the playstyle is already in game . Those who enjoyed enhancement before are inferior to you, by your lack of argument against it.

I'm not trying to encroach on your playstyles here, you are trying to encroach on EVERYONES you disagree with. That's why you are greedy (and that's why it's one of many emerging mistakes in legion so far)

[melodramocracy]

Another day on MMOC, where posters will argue that anti-flyers want to force their preference on the rest of the subscribers, and in the same breath rejoice the removal of optional / infrequently used abilities.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Exaclty, in Vanilla mages just used 3 buttons, Arcane Intellect, Mage Armor, and Frostbolt.

Yeah if you were completely incompetent.


OT: I'm reserving my opinion for when I can try it out myself.

The prune from MoP to WoD was my limit (as far as destroying a class goes) and so if it is indeed worse than WoD, I'm gone.

(11 year player)

[Deleted]

Why do people want more abilities to add to their rotation? Blizzard have done this in the past and people just macro them down to a single button using /castsequence.

Secondly, how does adding more abilities add any more skill to the game? Quite often Blizzard end up adding abilities which take skill out of the game instead.

These days most classes have a whole load of panic buttons and cooldowns which prevent them from dying to certain boss mechanics; the end result is that every raid tier has dozens of boss mechanics which just end up being cheesed by the huge number of immunities or personal defensive cooldowns, rather than actually having players deal with those mechanics directly.

Then we have the speed boosts and various other mobility buttons - players don't need to need to care so much about where they're positioned on certain bossfights; when there's some ability which lets everybody temporarily run 60% faster, or instant teleport/blink out of harms way, then those "move out the fire" mechanics start to look really boring.

Aside from the fact that having loads of abilities inevitably means that classes end up feeling too similar to each other (Why does every class need a speed boost? Why does every class need a personal damage reduction cooldown?), the game is more interesting when players have more limitations and restrictions, and when classes have more distinct, unique capabilties.

When your character is limited in the number of ways they can engage with a boss mechanic, they need to learn to cope with whatever limited toolset they've got. On the other hand, if all characters have a 'correct' button for every conceivable situation, then the correct answer to every boss mechanic is simply a matter of pressing that button.

WoW already has a lot of buttons for each class/spec - Blizzard just don't do enough with the toolkits which are already available. What would make the game more interesting would be to have more complex interactions between different abilities and less predictability.

For example, if a player has an ability whose behaviour might change at different times during an encounter (e.g. % chance to behave differently), then that suddenly creates a lot more depth and variation in gameplay than simply having two separate abilities on different buttons where both are always available, because the latter would imply the player always being able to perform a simplistic-yet-mathematically-perfect "rotation", whereas the former would imply a player needing to actually think for themselves and change their gameplay on-the-fly.