Honor Talents, Prestige, and Ranked PvP in Legion

[Johnnydeeps]

As stated in the Blue post for the Legion Pvp preview, gear will not play a factor in pvp in Legion, however the honor talent system will take its place. For instance instead of seeing "lfm rbg's 710+ Ilvl and 1800 exp req.", we will be seeing "lfm rbg's level 50 honor and 1800 exp rbg's.", (just an example, the numbers aren't specific but you get the idea).

Right now to my knowledge there isn't a specific amount of time it will take to get from level 1-50 honor rank, however it probably won't be a quick feat. (just an educated guess) Once you hit honor rank 50 you'll have unlocked every talent option for your spec and that is how you will have an upper hand on people in pvp (other than skill, gear will have little impact)

So with the main goal of end game pvp going to be you having level 50 honor rank, will prestiging be even feasible for the end game pvper? Why would we want to prestige if it means resetting every talent and having to grind through it again? Nobody is going to want a rank 1 honor person in thier rbg or arena group, and if you want to prestige you have to reset your talents and you lose all your moves you've unlocked.


I just don't see how this is going to work. You want to prestige to get better rewards, but can't because you have rbg's on Tuesday and it is Sunday and it takes a week to go from 1-50 (just an example, as stated there isn't a set a out of time it will take to get from 1-50)

[heinz0r]

I doubt that it will take more than a few weeks to grind out back to rank50. Otherwise that prestige system would have some trouble. Especially seeing how weak those rewards are... titles, some silly badge on scoreboard that noone will really care about, and mounts again... *yawn*

No thank you, I will just grind rank 50 and then stick to it.

[Kagthul]

Im not really thrilled about the template system, merely because it removes player choice from the equation.

Maybe i want to gear haste, to get my spells/CC out quicker. Maybe i want to gear mastery to make my spells hit harder.

Oh well, no choice, you play the Blizzard Approved Way(tm) or you get bent.

And as for gear "not playing a factor" - their own example shows a 1% differential in stats for every 10 iLevels. With the current massive mudflation - itll be pretty easy to see 10-15% in the first season alone.

Gear will still play a factor.

[Deleted]

Im not really thrilled about the template system, merely because it removes player choice from the equation.

Maybe i want to gear haste, to get my spells/CC out quicker. Maybe i want to gear mastery to make my spells hit harder.

Oh well, no choice, you play the Blizzard Approved Way(tm) or you get bent.

And as for gear "not playing a factor" - their own example shows a 1% differential in stats for every 10 iLevels. With the current massive mudflation - itll be pretty easy to see 10-15% in the first season alone.

Gear will still play a factor.

Yes, exactly my thoughts. I like making choices in RPGs. However, if they are really able to create balance using this systems it might be worth the loss.

For the talents you have to remember that at honor level 10 you already have access to all tiers, so you are just lacking the choice there. If the balance is okay between abilities within one tier you will not lose that much. However, it is far more probable that there will be talents again that outshine all others in the same tier and if they happen to be on the rightmost side, it can be painful.

But to be honest, I think the prestige system is a thing for those who enjoy Random BGs. Currently there are no rewards in Random BGs once you are gear-capped. You can just do stupid achievements which often have nothing to do with actually PvPing. If capping prestige takes a significant amount of time the arena-focused players will probably just level to 50 once and then stay there forever.

[ophion1990]

But to be honest, I think the prestige system is a thing for those who enjoy Random BGs. Currently there are no rewards in Random BGs once you are gear-capped. You can just do stupid achievements which often have nothing to do with actually PvPing. If capping prestige takes a significant amount of time the arena-focused players will probably just level to 50 once and then stay there forever.

That's the problem I see with it aswell. If it does take a while, I'll probably have my main sit at level 50 and have an alt to do BGs with for the mount/title (assuming they are account bound), which I can't imagine is the devs' intent.

[Kretan]

Im not really thrilled about the template system, merely because it removes player choice from the equation.

Maybe i want to gear haste, to get my spells/CC out quicker. Maybe i want to gear mastery to make my spells hit harder.

Oh well, no choice, you play the Blizzard Approved Way(tm) or you get bent.

And as for gear "not playing a factor" - their own example shows a 1% differential in stats for every 10 iLevels. With the current massive mudflation - itll be pretty easy to see 10-15% in the first season alone.

Gear will still play a factor.

It is 1% for every 10 item additional levels.....starting from what item level? That's an important point. If it is only possible to go 25 item levels over the minimum they set, then no gear will not play a large factor.

[ellieg]

It is 1% for every 10 item additional levels.....starting from what item level? That's an important point. If it is only possible to go 25 item levels over the minimum they set, then no gear will not play a large factor.

Im worried about what ilvl gear you get from doing pvp, compared to the ilvl of gear you get from pve. If pve is higher than pvp, gear will still make a difference. Even if its only 1-2%, that's still a big deal.

Using rough numbers lets say the best gear u can get from pvp is like 800. Lets say non warforged mythic is like 810. At the top end of the ladder where player skill is at the ceiling, the teams with pve gear are going to beat the pvp geared players more often and thus have a better rating. Why not completely disable ilvl in pvp? If you are going to use a template, just stick to the template. Still give out gear so that pvpers can jump into pve.

[paralleluniverse]

It is completely ridiculous.

They want PvP to be skill-based, yet they put in this talent system that makes people that haven't grinded as much less powerful, and to top it off, they want you to gimp yourself by needlessly removing all your talents in order to earn cosmetic rewards.

Why not just let the prestige system work without requiring a talent reset... no reason, no reason at all.

This is a contradictory and thoughtless system.

[Deleted]

It is 1% for every 10 item additional levels.....starting from what item level? That's an important point. If it is only possible to go 25 item levels over the minimum they set, then no gear will not play a large factor.

I think item level scalin will be similar to WoD, they also announced that there will be no stat squish again, so it will probably just continue from the current item levels on. Going by this we currently have ilvl 740 I think for the epic PvP set ilvl 730 for the blue one and 715 for the green one.

As this is specifically the 25 ilvl difference they were talking about I think we can assume that scaling will be somewhere along those lines. A question would be if they keep up the scaling in PvP, because a freshly new lvl 100 player currently starts out at something like ilvl 600, so I hope they scale that up to some minimum level like they currently do in PvP (700).

That said, I think those 2.5% might actually be the real value between "starter set" and "full epic BIS gear" and that would be really amazing because currently gear difference can be a real fun killer in random BGs. At least half of the players are doing them to get gear so they only have like half a set and the mixture of people on your team already having the gear and those doing the BGs to get gear often pre-decides the outcome of a match far more than the skill of the players on your team.

[slime]

I don't like what I've read so far... but I need to try it and see if in practice it is better than it sounds.

[Deleted]

It is completely ridiculous.

They want PvP to be skill-based, yet they put in this talent system that makes people that haven't grinded as much less powerful, and to top it off, they want you to gimp yourself by needlessly removing all your talents in order to earn cosmetic rewards.

Why not just let the prestige system work without requiring a talent reset... no reason, no reason at all.

This is a contradictory and thoughtless system.

I also don't really understand why they have to tie that to talents and it is actually something I expect them to change, maybe even before release.

Or maybe they could extend that to PvE that you can reset your class to level 1 to do the whole leveling again and then get some nice cosmetic rewards. In between you have to do your raids with like level 40 and only using the abilities you have earned up to that point

[klaps_05]

The problem with arena runs very deep. You can:
- Give everyone all the gear, instantly, for free.
- Lock all their stats, absolutely no variation between the same classes.

You would still have fundamental issues in the game because its been years since they went down the wrong road.

They know r1/glad have long lost their value as a title and mean nothing as you can easily buy one or trade it, so they are going back to vanilla in a way - grind your brain out to get maximum prestige. So basically the same system like vanilla, except you get all the gear in advance.

[Mafic]

It is completely ridiculous.

They want PvP to be skill-based, yet they put in this talent system that makes people that haven't grinded as much less powerful, and to top it off, they want you to gimp yourself by needlessly removing all your talents in order to earn cosmetic rewards.

Why not just let the prestige system work without requiring a talent reset... no reason, no reason at all.

This is a contradictory and thoughtless system.

Yeah if you world PVP or do rated arena/BG I can't see why you would reset your rank. If this is for random battleground player I am not sure how that is going to work as that is a small segment of the PVP player base and they tend to be casual players that also do PVE, pet battles, etc.

[paralleluniverse]

Or maybe they could extend that to PvE that you can reset your class to level 1 to do the whole leveling again and then get some nice cosmetic rewards. In between you have to do your raids with like level 40 and only using the abilities you have earned up to that point

Brilliant idea that fits perfectly into Blizzard's design philosophy!

[Mafic]

I think item level scalin will be similar to WoD, they also announced that there will be no stat squish again, so it will probably just continue from the current item levels on. Going by this we currently have ilvl 740 I think for the epic PvP set ilvl 730 for the blue one and 715 for the green one.

As this is specifically the 25 ilvl difference they were talking about I think we can assume that scaling will be somewhere along those lines. A question would be if they keep up the scaling in PvP, because a freshly new lvl 100 player currently starts out at something like ilvl 600, so I hope they scale that up to some minimum level like they currently do in PvP (700).

That said, I think those 2.5% might actually be the real value between "starter set" and "full epic BIS gear" and that would be really amazing because currently gear difference can be a real fun killer in random BGs. At least half of the players are doing them to get gear so they only have like half a set and the mixture of people on your team already having the gear and those doing the BGs to get gear often pre-decides the outcome of a match far more than the skill of the players on your team.

The problem is look at the item level difference between current PVE gear and PVP gear and that is a preview of what Legion brings.

[Deleted]

If you dont like the prestige system, don't do it. Simple as that.
Not all content has to be for all people. The rewards are cosmetic, so the people they do it wont end up being more powerful.

As for predetermined stats, I like the general idea, but would like to see a system when you can select your secondary stats. Rather than Blizz saying "You're Disc, you get crit" and "You're affliction you get haste" I'd like to be able to set my stat priorities.

e.g.
I want my PvP set for Disc to be haste > mastery > crit > etc...
That way you can change your priorities and try different things. Is mastery better if your playing offensive but haste better for defensive?

[Somus]

Prestige system feeds into the ego of pvpers. The ability to "show off" easily through the use cosmetic rewards is perfect for that mind set. It will always be the one up over the 'chumps' who didn't challenge themselves by reaching level 50 prestige.

[Saladfork]

As for predetermined stats, I like the general idea, but would like to see a system when you can select your secondary stats. Rather than Blizz saying "You're Disc, you get crit" and "You're affliction you get haste" I'd like to be able to set my stat priorities.

e.g.
I want my PvP set for Disc to be haste > mastery > crit > etc...
That way you can change your priorities and try different things. Is mastery better if your playing offensive but haste better for defensive?

They were interesting decisions, for sure, but I guess Blizzard wanted to move away from min-maxing in general. It gives them more control. Personally, I'm okay with that under one condition: can we differentiate ourselves through our play?

Honestly, the reason why the stat tweaking in PvP was interesting was because it was one way to differentiate yourself. But I'd much rather be able to differentiate myself from others by the way I play. There are still glyphs and talents that serve as static decisions.

[ItachiZaku]

This will bring me back. I really like this idea. Obviously, nothing is perfect, but I do hope the 1-50 grind is slow, something that would take maybe 4-6 months of real playing to build up to. If it is some shit that only takes a few days or a weekend to push out... it'd be pointless.

[ellieg]

This will bring me back. I really like this idea. Obviously, nothing is perfect, but I do hope the 1-50 grind is slow, something that would take maybe 4-6 months of real playing to build up to. If it is some shit that only takes a few days or a weekend to push out... it'd be pointless.

Im thinking its going to take about 24-48 hours /played. Just my guess. There are enough rewards that 4-6 months isn't feasible. Youre gonna have enough rewards to prestige 10+ times.