Thoughts on Tanking and Blood going into Legion (LONG)

[Deleted]

Reading nathrizarri reminds me of a forum discussion I had with another DK who insisted that Stoneskin Gargoyle was the best rune and that multistrike was useless. What I've taken away from that clusterf*** is: don't even try arguing with these people. They are adamantly opposed to changing their mind, especially in the face of evidence proving them wrong. It's no different than arguing with a creationist, or more likely someone believing in "alternative medicine". Any logic and evidence against them is dismissed and any perceived, anecdotal evidence in their favour is held up as proof that the world is flat, crystals will cure your migraine and that god put fossils in the earth to test our faith.

Edit: Just checked his logs, too. Uses PL on every fight, so the likelyhood of him being a troll is pretty much 100%. Congratulations on convincing everyone here that you are an idiot. You sure showed us.

[Deleted]

As if his avatar and sig weren't enough of a clue.

[simetrik]

Uh oh, tuned into Slootbag's stream and he disagrees with you! He tanks for the best guild in the world so he knows what he's talking about.

[celinamuna]

Uh oh, tuned into Slootbag's stream and he disagrees with you! He tanks for the best guild in the world so he knows what he's talking about.

Tanks farm for world 1st guild, does progression in world 26th.
Keepo

[enak101]

Knowing he is a troll calms me down somewhat, but don't fall into his trap thinking about the amount of global cool downs. Its about resources not time spent, if time spent does matter then I imagine in a lot of scenarios, getting faster RP for a fat death strike heal sooner is more important. If you are thinking about long term over the fight damage taken, then it is about resources not some weird argument because marrowrend only takes 4.5 seconds of globals (and then you are out of runes Kappa)

He actually might be a pretty good troll to invent this type of argument its pretty remarkable.

[hashtags]

nathrizarri going by your signature you are 741? I feel sorry for the guild and the healers who carries you.

[Kraeth]

Just ignore him and move along, he's constantly posting provoking shit just for the sake of it.

I'm really worried about DS going back to dmg taken formula. WoD model was way better for all purposes.

[Milocow]

Just ignore him and move along, he's constantly posting provoking shit just for the sake of it.

I'm really worried about DS going back to dmg taken formula. WoD model was way better for all purposes.

Does pain supp/iron bark (damage reduction effects/shields) reduce the effectiveness of DS heals (and thus shields)?

Might of Mograine removed? (250% crit DS heals thing)
Also they should really buff blood boil (48% AP scaling) considering 1 tick of Blood Plague does like 47.3% of AP

[Deleted]

Uh oh, tuned into Slootbag's stream and he disagrees with you! He tanks for the best guild in the world so he knows what he's talking about.

Firstly I would like to echo what Celinamuna said "Tanks farm for world 1st guild, does progression in world 26th".

Secondly, Trox has been a part of the dk community for ages now and is extremely well versed in the spec so you'll excuse me if I take the word of someone who plays blood as his main during progression instead of the prot paladin that doesn't know shit about blood in comparison to Trox.

[Milocow]

edit : doublepost nvm

[Leblue]

Does pain supp/iron bark (damage reduction effects/shields) reduce the effectiveness of DS heals (and thus shields)?

If it works like in Cata, yes

[Milocow]

If it works like in Cata, yes

so blood dks hate disc priests?

[CptAwesome]

Not sure why people have let that one mongoloid derail the thread so much.

Trox's original post was less about the numbers and more about the overall feel of the class and from what I've tested he seems to be quite correct. There is a lot of downtime and we've had a lot of abilities removed which leaves the class feeling very simplified and hollow. Unfortunately, I don't see this changing because from personal experience I see the same thing on the two Demon Hunter specs, simple rotations with few cooldowns. My guildmates also say similar things about hunters, rogues and elemental shaman so perhaps this is just the way the game is going, rather than something specific to us.

Clearly, the intent was for our gameplay to revolve around trying to keep up bone shield while also maximising the number of Death Strikes. Right now, the maths just do not work that way and as discussed we will become a 2 button spec. I think it's quite disappointing because I always liked the idea of balancing DPS with survivability. Figuring out how many offensive abilities you can risk and playing defensive cooldowns to allow for more damage, I liked that. In Legion it looks as though there will be very little difference between some pushing for damage and trying to survive, only the Death Strike timings.

[Deleted]

so blood dks hate disc priests?

Yes.

Realistically this is also one of the most simple problems to fix; the tech is there to make it work with absorbed damage (and there's no reasonable reason it shouldn't, you can still block/stagger/etc attacks while under the effects of absorb shields), tune the numbers down if necessary and that's about it. Not really the biggest of concerns in my opinion.

[igmo]

Firstly I would like to echo what Celinamuna said "Tanks farm for world 1st guild, does progression in world 26th".

Secondly, Trox has been a part of the dk community for ages now and is extremely well versed in the spec so you'll excuse me if I take the word of someone who plays blood as his main during progression instead of the prot paladin that doesn't know shit about blood in comparison to Trox.

Ah yes, unverifiable hearsay countered with ad hominem. A+

There's no replay of his comments available, but I think we can say that reasonable people might disagree with the points about tanking and burst, but not with the argument that the new DK rotation is dumb. A 2-button rotation is dumb. That's pretty simple, but there's room for other opinions on what the penalties for less-than-perfect tank play should be.

I doubt they'll back down on the spec redesign, but some RP on bone shield consumption (the T15 tank bonus, but mayyyyyybe not 15 RP) or an offensive value to having it up would go a long way toward having us push all three buttons, if the numbers were right. Maybe that's the push to make.

[Baddok21]

The only annoying thing about Troxism legion Beta Thread is that it has +27 Upvotes and only 20 Replies, we gotta bunch of useless Beta testers with no feedback to provide. The thread on Legion FURY specced Warriors has more discussion then ALL DK threads combined, its actually 3x times larger if you count up all the replies.

SMDH

[chaos61988]

The only annoying thing about Troxism legion Beta Thread is that it has +27 Upvotes and only 20 Replies, we gotta bunch of useless Beta testers with no feedback to provide. The thread on Legion FURY specced Warriors has more discussion then ALL DK threads combined, its actually 3x times larger if you count up all the replies.

SMDH

lol didnt you get the memo? nobody cares about tanks, except tanks; and there are way less of us than there are of dps. most the tanks i know besides me are dps mains who were forced to tank by their guilds or other reasons. most of them dont care about this. and thats really sad, as stated earlier. why should they care about our rotation and gameplay as long as we come and do our jobs?

[hashtags]

Troxim, I am not sure how much would it help but would it be possible for like making a video in which you can explain these points along with examples on alpha and then linking that video to celestalon. Benefit of doing that people who are put off by the length of the article would be able to watch it secondly may be just may be it could go through celestalon thick skull in what he is trying to do.

[Simulacrum]

Reading this essay honestly made me lose all interest in playing my DK right away. Knowing that my character will essentially be destroyed in Legion and replaced with a shell of itself removes any of my motivation to keep playing it. Which is a shame because it's the only tanking spec I really like, after having played all of them except guardian druids (who just seems incredibly boring, just like the future of blood DKs looks).

[xpire]

The feedback that we’ve gotten so far has lead us to make more significant revisions to several other classes and specs, that you’ll see in future builds, particularly Elemental, Enhancement, Marksmanship, Survival, and Blood.

Let's hope...