Mythic Mannoroth Doomlord Dispel Help Requested

[Broccoliz]

I have read posts on Doomlord, but they were before IL upgrades/legendary rings, so our DPS now is at an awkward timing spot where we are phasing him at awkward doomlord moments and having to hold DPS. Here is our current strategy, but I am looking for any suggestions on how to handle these better.

P1 - Summoner phase, no doomlord

P2 - We get 3 doomlord. We stop DPS at 70%, wait for 3rd curse, dispel immediately, get marks of doom, then phase boss (skipping that set of imps)

P3 - We get 2 doomlords. 1st doomlord we dispel immediately. 2nd doomlord is our problem child!! We do not have the DPS to phase him before it is too late to skip this doomlord. Since this is the doomlord you HAVE to wait to dispel, that means we are essentially sitting on our hands for 30 seconds of the fight... 10 seconds waiting for the curse to hit, then 20 waiting for it to drop off.

Is there any other suggestion for this?? Would we be safe to dispel it immediately, then try to phase boss and handle marks as we enter P4? Or is the best strategy to really sit on our hands for 30 seconds and just get a clean transition to P4?

With imps continuing to happen in the 30 seconds we are sitting on our hands, cleave on to boss nears him closer to phasing incorrectly as well, so it is such a hard balance.

Could really use help Got him to 15% best pull, would love to get him down this week.

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Oh, and we use one stack of doomspike to clear our marks.

[Marhault]

Are you running 2 tanks or 3?

[Deleted]

The question you should really ask is, what do you want to have when you get to last phase. Having ring and everyone's dps cooldowns ready for when you push last phase, means that if you keep everyone alive through the first shadowforce, the boss dies.

We always stop dps even now if it's blatant we can't make it in time. If you got a solid way to do p2/p3 just stick to it and just survive last phase long enough to kill it.

[Zulandia]

Been a while since we've dealt with the 5th doomlord however I want to say that's the one that will cast marks directly before shadow force if dispelled immediately (almost certainly causing them to explode before people can get out of group). If it is you should be fine just holding that curse dispel for about 10 seconds (until shadowforce is just about to begin). You then will have a good window of time to handle the marks/transition the boss.

Alternatively with your dps you are almost guaranteed a second P4 shadow force but should have plenty of time before the third assuming people live. Because the ring in this phase on the transition is unlikely to allow your group to skip second shadow force anyway and as I said I doubt you reach a thid you may find it beneficial to just use your third dps ring to destroy that fifth doomlord and allow for a smoother transition.

[Broccoliz]

The question you should really ask is, what do you want to have when you get to last phase. Having ring and everyone's dps cooldowns ready for when you push last phase, means that if you keep everyone alive through the first shadowforce, the boss dies.

We always stop dps even now if it's blatant we can't make it in time. If you got a solid way to do p2/p3 just stick to it and just survive last phase long enough to kill it.

We have a strat planned for last phase, so that's not really the question I am asking here. We got him to 15% with about half the raid dead when by the time we entered the last phase, so I think we will be solid if we can keep everyone alive. Problem is the 5th doomlord, hence me posting this thread specifically about that question. We can't figure out how to handle it, thus wiping due to poor marks of doom, and entering the last phase with half a raid.

Sounds like you are all for sitting on hands and keeping it clean rather than worry about a messy transition, thanks for the tips!

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Are you running 2 tanks or 3?

2 tanks, 4 healers.

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Been a while since we've dealt with the 5th doomlord however I want to say that's the one that will cast marks directly before shadow force if dispelled immediately (almost certainly causing them to explode before people can get out of group). If it is you should be fine just holding that curse dispel for about 10 seconds (until shadowforce is just about to begin). You then will have a good window of time to handle the marks/transition the boss.

Alternatively with your dps you are almost guaranteed a second P4 shadow force but should have plenty of time before the third assuming people live. Because the ring in this phase on the transition is unlikely to allow your group to skip second shadow force anyway and as I said I doubt you reach a thid you may find it beneficial to just use your third dps ring to destroy that fifth doomlord and allow for a smoother transition.

So instead of letting the 5th doomlord drop off on it's own, we can dispel right before shadowforce and marks will have a safe area to be handled correctly? So, dispel right before shadowforce, handle shadowforce, handle marks, phase boss?

Thanks for the help

[Zulandia]

So instead of letting the 5th doomlord drop off on it's own, we can dispel right before shadowforce and marks will have a safe area to be handled correctly? So, dispel right before shadowforce, handle shadowforce, handle marks, phase boss?

Thanks for the help

Yep. Storm/imps will come down, you will dispel just before force, get shadowforce/fear combo, kick one shadowbolt during the force, marks will go out then there is a long window with only a felseeker to worry about which creates tons of time to clear marks/transition.

That said if you can in any way up your boss damage to bypass that fifth doomlord I would strongly suggest it (plus anyone who can immune doomlords REALLY should be focusing on this one). In my opinion that is the worst combination of mechanics by far (you get a curse, imps, hellfire and shadowforce all in less than 10 seconds) so not dealing with it makes the fight a lot easier.

[Deleted]

Ah yes, for the 5th you really only have to make sure you wait for the shadowforce/gaze combo, dispel and deal with dooms whilst pushing for last phase. We generally finish off the doomlord with random cleave whilst pushing last phase. There is a possibility you get double imps if you're too slow, but you can prepare for that.

Can't really say how you guys were handling the dooms without logs or vods, there's couple ways. Thus the limited response.

[Deleted]

First 4 dispel immediately. 5th one you let expire or 5 seconds left.

Going afk during a boss is never fun but you need to be strict with your dps and explain how important that stop is. stop around 41% dots and cleave should do the rest.

The only way you can really gain damage is going 3 healers. Which on progress we didnt do but with current gear it shouldnt be a problem it does mean you need your Cds assigned correctly and dps spreading correctly for imps.

Hope this helped.

[Adramelch]

The only time you can push prior to that 5th doomlord is 10seconds before it goes off. Otherwise you need to stop dps. He phases at 35% and after the wombo combo ( marks , shadowforce, imps and fear all at once) you have a couple of seconds to push ideally the boss should be around 38% ish.

That's not true. You can push even 1 sec before the curse goes off and you won't get that Doomlord, as the pillar gets destroyed. The 10 second rule applies only to the 65% mark.

[Zulandia]

That's not true. You can push even 1 sec before the curse goes off and you won't get that Doomlord, as the pillar gets destroyed. The 10 second rule applies only to the 65% mark.

Not to be a pedant but given the nature of the topic it's not quite one second but it's pretty close ya (I'd say 3?). The pillar doesn't break right with his transition it's with the giant green laser Gul'dan shoots at it about 2 seconds into his RP.

[Adramelch]

It's not quite one second but it's pretty close ya (I'd say 3?). The pillar doesn't break right with his transition it's with the giant green laser Gul'dan shoots at it about 2 seconds into his RP.

Yeah 1 second was a somewhat deliberate exaggeration to drive my point home. Although, given that I actually "count" the transition at the start of the RP talk (so a couple of seconds before the Boss Mods/Graphical appearance of Mannoroth indicate the transition), we're kinda talking about the same point in time.

[Deleted]

That's not true. You can push even 1 sec before the curse goes off and you won't get that Doomlord, as the pillar gets destroyed. The 10 second rule applies only to the 65% mark.

Yeah you are right sorry. My bad. I will change that.

[Deleted]

My two cents...

If you haven't already, sort out the DPS so you have roughly three AoE DPS(for imps) and the rest focus on ST specs and Talents.

DPS Ring use...
As soon as the 3rd Doomlord + Felseeker has occurred, pop ring and push boss/kill doomlord to phase him.
Since he has a bit of RP here and mechanics are reset it gives you some time to tunnel him before Wrath comes out.

Then hold off the dispel on the 4th Doomlord as long as you can.
This way you should have enough time to run out and hellstorm should break the Marks safely.
Once the 2nd Gaze has been soaked run out to bait the Felseeker and phase to ph4.

That 5th Doomlord is something you really want to avoid and should be possible at the current gear levels.
(maybe your comp isnt the greatest though)



Maybe not the greatest of help but its what we did to progress on this boss.

Good luck!

[Stenulf]

Talking about doom lord numbers is odd. The timers rest once you enter a new phase. Getting 2 doomlords in phase 2 is good. But having 3 or 4 in phase 3 quite bad.

Mages with evenes/block, rogues cloak, dk ams and pala bubble can immune the doom lord debuff. Have your players using their immunes on every cast they can.
On our first kill we skipped first doomlord, which ment we pushed boss into phase 3 really fast.
On our second we skipped all 3 that were casted. A bit of rng and luck but it really boost the dps on boss.

Or just chill and dont dps if you can

[Broccoliz]

Then hold off the dispel on the 4th Doomlord as long as you can.
This way you should have enough time to run out and hellstorm should break the Marks safely.
Once the 2nd Gaze has been soaked run out to bait the Felseeker and phase to ph4.

This is interesting, something I hadn't considered. Currently we dispel 4th doomlord immediately, but you're suggesting if we let it fall off naturally, that marks can still be handled safely and it will potentially allow us to tunnel enough DPS on the boss that we will avoid the 5th doomlord - am I following correctly? Definitely something I will want to try if it is a safe option.

Thanks for the other suggestions as well! We currently have exactly that, 3 aoe specs focusing the imps and the rest single target builds. Our DPS is pretty on PAR so I think this method you describe could work for us. I just always read to dispel the 4th doomlord immediately because of how mechanics are timed, that if you don't dispel immediately it lines up with a mechanic that will explode them and wipe the raid.

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Talking about doom lord numbers is odd. The timers rest once you enter a new phase. Getting 2 doomlords in phase 2 is good. But having 3 or 4 in phase 3 quite bad.

Mages with evenes/block, rogues cloak, dk ams and pala bubble can immune the doom lord debuff. Have your players using their immunes on every cast they can.
On our first kill we skipped first doomlord, which ment we pushed boss into phase 3 really fast.
On our second we skipped all 3 that were casted. A bit of rng and luck but it really boost the dps on boss.

Or just chill and dont dps if you can

We get 3 the first doomlord phase, and 2 the second doomlord phase (not 3-4 like you mention?). So 5 total over the course of the fight.

The problem with immunities in my opinion is that it is totally RNG based and affects the "dance" of the fight - we're trying to perfect our dance as opposed to messing up our rhythm/phasing plan depending on whether or not we get lucky. Will definitely consider it as an option though, and start winging some stuff on the fly

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Here are logs from the brief number of pulls we got in last night after our upper floor farm -

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6n3Mwxj2B9HaCKNv#fight=23

Had a raider new to the fight, so had a few silly wipes, but you can see we're tending to wipe right around 40% when the 5th doomlord/wombo combos start rolling in.

[Adramelch]

The problem with immunities in my opinion is that it is totally RNG based and affects the "dance" of the fight - we're trying to perfect our dance as opposed to messing up our rhythm/phasing plan depending on whether or not we get lucky. Will definitely consider it as an option though, and start winging some stuff on the fly

The problem is that, in general, the fight and the way classes are designed involves a lot of RNG, that, while it's good that you're trying to come up with a general plan, it changes from try to try and doesn't let you act exactly on that plan. So yeah, come up with a solution for those problems, but don't try to "resist" the possibility of immuning 1 doom lord (or whatever else) and making the fight that much easier.

Another tip: At your ilvl, it's probably possible to "erase" Doomlords 1 and 3 through using the ring explosion on them, before they cast Mark of Doom. It depends on the setup ofc, and we're at a much higher ilvl than you so I don't remember how feasible it was before, but it's worth exploring. Especially if you can blow up Doomlord 3 before Mark of Doom, it will really make your life much much easier.

[Deleted]

Another tip: At your ilvl, it's probably possible to "erase" Doomlords 1 and 3 through using the ring explosion on them, before they cast Mark of Doom. It depends on the setup ofc, and we're at a much higher ilvl than you so I don't remember how feasible it was before, but it's worth exploring. Especially if you can blow up Doomlord 3 before Mark of Doom, it will really make your life much much easier.

As far as i gathered they have phase 2 down but lack some exp and DPS during phase 3.
Using the ring explosion to kill the 3rd Doomlord would most likely put them further behind during this phase (i think?)

[Broccoliz]

We have been popping the ring during imps, to cheese the explosion with all the AoE as well as help us with a few tricky imp landings in p3. I'm definitely up for suggestions on different ring usages though! I think we tried to kill doomlords before marks went out before, to no avail. Possibly could with some extra practice/focus.

[nato2k]

I won't be a huge help but we three heal for the extra dps.

P2 first doomlord we dispel immediately and ring + spirit eruption kills it
second doomlord we hold until after second felseeker and dispel, usually right before it is going to expire, we do box strat so we use the volley to break dooms. we interrupt the first volley if we aren't going to push p3 before the fear.
We don't get a third in p2

P3 we get wrath, shadowforce and fear, then dispel the mark when felseeker hits. We again interrupt the first volley to avoid having the volley damage + fear and shadowforce. At this point we push to P4. lust, ring, cd, pot, etc... survive the first ESF cast and win.

We were having some of the same problems you were. When we went to three heals and stopped trying to hold dps we immediately made a ton of progress and got a kill within 20 attempts.

[Nitros14]

Better to wait 30 seconds and phase it cleanly than phase it messily and continue to wipe.

If it helps we get 5 doom lords. 4 heal 3 tank. Use volleys to break marks every time.

Blow the first one up with ring.

Second one at 79% deal with it.

Third one at 68%, we enter phase 2 just after mark of dooms go out to skip the fear+doom. Hold the ring and use it on the first imps in phase 2 while the melee are wrath'd and can't help.

Fourth one at 48%, dispel immediately, stampeding roar to get back in time for shadowforce after marks.

Fifth one right before phase 3. Stop dps at 40% and sit on our hands waiting for the delayed dispel. Kill the doom lord, phase the boss cleanly.

Waiting isn't a big problem, just deal with the mechanics properly and enter phase 3 cleanly with ring and all cooldowns up.

Video if it helps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzZlIe89MA0

With 4 healers you can keep phase 3 going a long time without being in any real danger. Vast majority of our wipes were phase 2 with only maybe 15 wipes in the last phase. We never used immunities on doom lords, the key to progression is consistency imo. Keep the fight the same every time.