Am I the only one that's not okay with the Big Revamp?

[Pull My Finger]

the fuck are you even saying

Don't worry about it, Beavis.

[Dadwen]

Thats not what I think of when I think Hunter. Stealth and poison? When I was introduced to this game hunters had both melee and ranged spells and pets were hardly what they are now.

Its weird to me that you're upset at these changes but not the MANY changes that have been made in the past. BM is what you're asking for. You're still an archer with a pet, just because you don't have tons of shots.

kinda odd to think of hunters any other way, seeing this is blizzards description of them.

These expert marksmen drop foes dead in their tracks with flawless shots from a bow or rifle. Thanks to their pinpoint timing, hunters are able to fire their ranged weapons quickly – even at enemies who close to melee range with them.

The art of survival is central to the isolated life of a hunter. Hunters track beasts with ease and enhance their own abilities by attuning themselves to the feral aspects of various creatures. Hunters are known for the lifelong bonds they form with animals of the wild, training great hawks, cats, bears, and many other beasts to fight alongside them.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/class/hunter

*So it settled MM and SV are no longer hunters according to blizzard.

**this kinda sums up the old melee

In World of Warcraft
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Melee_hunter
This section concerns content exclusive to World of Warcraft.

Hunters are primarily a ranged class, but some Hunter players focus on melee combat for its novelty. These players generally specialize in the Survival tree because of its melee talents. Melee hunters are rare, due to the fact that they have few melee abilities and do sub-par damage.

[Deleted]

When I and others heard they were going to add gnome hunters, we got a tad excited



which got Blizzard scared nobody would play their silly demon hunters, so they felt they had to ruin the hunter class, steal our bows, pets n gum drops

bastards!

[mindw0rk]

I like the idea to distinct hunter specs and fine with surv being melee. Im just not yet pleased with how MM and surv turned out. MM is clunky. Surv is slow, lacks defences and traps system doesnt add much to it. They said they will bring significant changes to these 2 specs, so I have hopes.

Also, Blizzard, update shooting animations for God sake. Melees god awesome new animations where you _feel_ impact. On hunter its same old flying dots

[Nihilan]

Given that they are bringing the Demo Lock's retarded Imp summoning mechanic to BM, and taking from MM the things i liked about the spec (hard hitting front loaded damage with no ramp up, traps, etc), i will almost certainly not be playing the class come Legion. I was stoked about BM at first, until i saw the Artifact trees and how they were turning the spec into yet another idiot "swarm of pets" type deal. At that point i just sort of lost interest in the class. If i were the slightest bit interested in playing a melee spec theres a pretty good chance i would not be playing a fucking hunter right now.

To be honest, i havent yet seen or read about any other specs from other classes that i find interesting either. I might go back to my old DK main, but who knows. Tanking seems like its getting dumbed down too.

[Kennyloggins]

I would be happy with the revamp if the person in charge wasn't clearly inept.

[Proximitynz]

I would be happy with the revamp if the person in charge wasn't clearly inept.

I was initially really excited until I discovered that Andy Chambers who works at blizzard, and Andrew Chambers who works at blizzard, are two different people.

One has close to 30 years experience creating interesting synergistic rules and mechanics in table top war games, role playing games, etc. while the other one appears to have had a previous career orally testing paint for lead.

Guess which one got to design hunters, while the other was the lead writer for starcraft wings of liberty

[Ayazaki1218]

Well I used to love SV the way it was before they setbit on fire and reduced it to crap. The idea of dealing magical damage with special shots was appealing to me.

But after learning it was changed into melee I said "Wait what?" Yes I don't like to have a close quarters spec. For me a Hunter stalks and kill her prey from afar when it doesn't suspects it.

Well I'll have to stick with BM for a while.

[Dezerian]

Looks like the class is actually getting a bit more dynamic. Guess that will upset people who like stagnant gameplay we've had for years. Change is bad right guys? Can't possibly have any fun with reworks that actually look good.

[Shuken]

I understand the reasoning, specs should have a unique feel but I think they are going too far. And I'm not talking about specific abilities and their balancing.

Here's the problem.

The whole idea of RPGs is to, well, play a role. You choose a race, a class, get used to it, identify yourself with it. I've played a Hunter since mid TBC, not continuously but I got a taste of all the expansions and the feel of playing a Hunter has been more or less preserved. Sure, a lot has changed with tenths of abilities added, removed, revamped etc. but the very basic idea of an archer with a pet is still the same.

For me it's not about which abilities they add, remove or change, whether it's considered a nerf or a buff or if we can top dps charts. It's about the soul of the class.

What Blizzard did with Hunters in the alpha so far is changed them into a completely different class, or rather different classes. Since 2007, my character has been an archer with a pet. Now I have the choice between:

• a semi-archer (since we've only got one shot left and it's a focus dump) with 2 pets and summoning random beasts at the base of their rotation - so a beast master, little to do with Hunters
• an archer without a pet - so basically an archer, nothing to do with Hunters
• a melee with a pet - so basically a ranger, very little to do with Hunters

I'm not even going to mention the weird MM talents, summoning undead beasts and archers? What does this have to do with hunters?

If things go the way they are going, as of Legion launch I will not be able to play my hunter. I just want a ranged weapon and a pet. I don't want 10 pets, 0 pets or a melee with a pet.

It used to all make sense because when you think of a Hunter you think: ranged weapon, a pet, tracking, maybe some minor poisons, maybe some traps, maybe minor stealth.

I feel like the best way to resolve this would be changing Hunters into Rangers and adding a 4th spec - "Hunter", with one pet and a few shots.

100% agreed.

We lost something in this expansion. I've been dreading this expansion ever since I heard the news of survival being melee. I knew that one spec was dead to me from the start, then after reading the other changes to BM and MM... only BM Is even remotely an option anymore. And the playstyle sounds god awful.

Bring the hunter class that I've played since Vanilla back please.

- - - Updated - - -

The core class fantasy in the past was "archer with a pet" as you said, but the problem is the specs didn't really expand on that. Beast master was an archer with a pet that did a lot of damage, marksmanship was an archer that focused on high damage shots and range with a weak pet, and survival was an archer that did DOT damage and had better traps and things with a weak pet. None of those are particularly compelling. In Legion the core class fantasy is simplified to just "hunter," but the spec fantasy is MUCH more developed.

It's unfortunate the more developed specs don't match your particular interest any more (and I'm sure many others will have similar issues), but overall I think the class is better off with specs that are distinct.

It seemed compelling enough to all the people who played the hunter class aka the most played class in the game ????

The reality is that in any given patch, any spec can become the flavor of the month(s) or the reverse the underpowered crap spec of the month(s). When that happens, you're shit out of luck if you only like 1 out of 3 specs conceptually and your one spec is the crap one. For example if they decide that BM will suck in any given patch... I'm screwed. I have no spec I can fall back on anymore. In Cata and MOP I loved survival. Then they destroyed it at some point in WOD, so I started playing BM and MM. I had fall back options whenever blizzard played its little game of balance wrong. This just will not be an option anymore.

Pretty soon people will realize that it was a shit idea. The complaining has already started with survival because it's an awful spec that should never have seen the light of day.

[clevin]

Looks like the class is actually getting a bit more dynamic. Guess that will upset people who like stagnant gameplay we've had for years. Change is bad right guys? Can't possibly have any fun with reworks that actually look good.

Change isn't inherently bad... OR good. I dislike the hunter overhaul since one spec is now melee and by this time in the game's life anyone who's been playing for awhile has leveled a melee dps character if they want one. The only reason to be playing hunter vs that melee dps is that you prefer ranged DPS to melee. So, the move to make SV melee eliminates that spec for me. Right now, BM and MM don't look great. We'll see how it looks as beta moves on.

[Shuken]

Change isn't inherently bad... OR good. I dislike the hunter overhaul since one spec is now melee and by this time in the game's life anyone who's been playing for awhile has leveled a melee dps character if they want one. The only reason to be playing hunter vs that melee dps is that you prefer ranged DPS to melee. So, the move to make SV melee eliminates that spec for me. right now, BM and MM don't look great. WE;ll see how it looks as beta moves on.

It's annoying that anyone who thinks a change is bad is automatically considered to be against change. Yes resistance to change is a real thing. But another thing that is real is a bad change. You can be against a change because of either one of those reasons.

I've been around since vanilla. I've been against two changes so far :
-The WOD pruning of abilities
-Making the specs "different" for the sheer sake of it without having good ideas to do it. Specifically survival being melee while simultaneously making MM automatically lone wolf and making BM some dumb pet swarm thing.

The pruning of abilities dumbed down the game for no good reason... only for them to add a ton of new abilities in legion... so what was the point of the pruning ? And this change is just as silly and ill thought out. And the execution of it appears to be worse with the information released so far. Of course, we should wait until the actual release and perhaps even the first patch after release before passing final judgement on the execution of the idea. However, those who don't like those changes so far have every right to speak out and should. And the criticism should not be dismissed out of hand on the basis that people are against change unless it's clear that this is the reason why people are against said changes.

There is clearly a legitimate argument in saying that the hunter class has always been "Ranged physical + pet". It's always been that. They can fuck around with the class as much as they want while keeping that theme. If the "buzz idea" of legion is to differentiate specs at all costs (I think it's silly but the majority appears to love the concept), then there are an infinity of possibilities on making the 3 specs different from one another while keeping the essence of what being a hunter has ALWAYS been about the same. And it's definitely not unreasonable to have expected that essence to remain the same as it had in the previous 10 years. And it's not unreasonable to be upset that this essence is changed.

Throughout those 10 years, at some point in time there were options, such as more melee abilities with survival (while still remaining ranged). And there were options to be without a pet in WOD. And those were great because they were OPTIONAL. You had the choice of doing it or not. In legion, not only are they changing the fundamental basis of what has always been the hunter class but they're forcing that change down our throats with ZERO options. To say it's a good change just because it's a change is silly. To say all of this is a good change because the 3 specs needed to be differentiated is a fallacy. The specs could have been differentiated in another way.

The equivalent would be to make one spec of rogues ranged without stealth, make a 2nd spec only able to use swords without stealth, and the 3rd spec keeping stealth but without poisons. You're fundamentally changing the essence of what being a rogue is. To me a rogue is dual wield melee+stealth. You can't fuck with that. Those who have played rogues for 10 years have the expectation of always having that for their 3 specs. It's a bad idea to mess with that formula. Everything else is fair game. Change all the abilities, change how they behave almost completely.. but the very essence of melee+stealth should not change just like ranged physical+pet should not change for hunters either. At least the ranged physical part should not change, at the very least.

[zerocarbs]

Seems to me there are two types of hunters. Those who will play which ever spec is highest in DPS for raids. And those who were attracted to the class for being ranged with a pet. Now the latter is relegated to one spec. The 'class fantasy' with hunters seems to be all over the place with how they've designed MM.

They could have just as easily given the same treatment to warlocks but they didn't. Because of course they needed a second spec for demon hunters.

- - - Updated - - -

making BM some dumb pet swarm thing.

Ya I don't really get that either. I like MY pet. And now we are going to be summoning an entire stable of pets and the artifact gives us some ugly dog that is supposed to permanently follow us around? I just don't get it. It's all really turned me off from the class.

Blizzard is just in so far over their head with all these changes. I predict there's going to be a good number of specs that come out very mediocre game play in this next expansion.

[bloodmoth13]

NOpe, change is good.

Beast master Command your animal companion and fight using wild beasts

Survival Fight side by side with your companion and set traps

Marksman You dont rely on a pet to do your bidding, you are a master marksman

Currently we have:

Archer with pet
Archer with pet
Archer with pet

now specs are unique, much MUCH better imo.

Besides, i consider the class to only be a slight overview of what our character is, the specialization is the real decider, a priest isnt just a priest, its either a shadow priest that worships old gods, a holy priest that worships the light or a discipline priest that uses a bit of both.

[Deleted]

Pets are lame anyway and a hinderance. The only way they could work reliably is if they were static and locked in place, had infinite range and no LoS issues and were invisible, and always attacked the same target as you.

[Bosen]

Yeah,I think you're the only one. Like Tigger.

[Huggykaze]

Well, it seems like OP would love to see following HUNTER specs:

Bear Hunter: Specializes in hunting bears, can summon up to three dogs. At level 100 can spec into "Russian Bear Hunter" making him fat, half naked and using bear fists to fight.
Head Hunter: Specializes in hunting heads, can force invite promising young players to his guild with empty promises of steady progress. Other Head Hunters hate him, which results in lessened damage for every HH in the group.
Rabbit Hunter: Specializes in hunting rabbits, has no pets and can only use double-barreled shotguns. Never manages to catch the wabbit.

Now, this is the class fantasy that we need! Pure hunter!

- - - Updated - - -

Seems to me there are two types of hunters. Those who will play which ever spec is highest in DPS for raids. And those who were attracted to the class for being ranged with a pet. Now the latter is relegated to one spec. The 'class fantasy' with hunters seems to be all over the place with how they've designed MM.

Honestly, let's already move away from "Hunter" and call the class what it really is, "Ranger".

- - - Updated - - -

Well I used to love SV the way it was before they setbit on fire and reduced it to crap. The idea of dealing magical damage with special shots was appealing to me.

But after learning it was changed into melee I said "Wait what?" Yes I don't like to have a close quarters spec. For me a Hunter stalks and kill her prey from afar when it doesn't suspects it.

Well I'll have to stick with BM for a while.

Then your knowledge of hunting history is lacking :P Until guns became reliable hunting tool, big game hunts were conducted with mix of spears, javelins and crossbows. Bows were usually too weak against bears. Melee hunter makes more sense than one who tames animals, to be honest.

I'll probably move away from Hunter during Legion as, aside of hated BM, the class looks awful. MM once again looks simple as hell with something that's practically a rotation. SV lacks any utility, so unless its damage is cream of the crop, I don't see it being useful, even if most of guilds won't care. I'd love to see any utility added to the spec, as otherwise the idea is very compelling, although execution leaves a bit to be wished for.

[goblingirl]

All I can add is this:

They are changing things with classes far more drastically than they've ever done before. This is either going to be GREAT, or FAIL. It's a huge gamble on their part, because if it fails, their subscribership will flee in droves.

I play two mains, a druid and a hunter, and I'm not happy with the changes to either class.

[Deleted]

Well, it seems like OP would love to see following HUNTER specs:

Bear Hunter: Specializes in hunting bears, can summon up to three dogs. At level 100 can spec into "Russian Bear Hunter" making him fat, half naked and using bear fists to fight.
Head Hunter: Specializes in hunting heads, can force invite promising young players to his guild with empty promises of steady progress. Other Head Hunters hate him, which results in lessened damage for every HH in the group.
Rabbit Hunter: Specializes in hunting rabbits, has no pets and can only use double-barreled shotguns. Never manages to catch the wabbit.

Now, this is the class fantasy that we need! Pure hunter!

I'm not saying I want a real life hunter, I'm saying I want the WoW Hunter to stay the WoW Hunter, instead of the current choice between a zoo keeper, reskinned frost mage and... well, survival.

[DeuZWw]

I kinda understand that. When Demo Lock turned into a Metamorphosis on/off i also felt that it was very odd at first.

Still, in this case. i was really hoping that they would add a Talent to let Marksman use a Pet.

I Don't buy Beast Master using a Gun. Most animals have sensive ears. A Gun would not only scare your own pet friend, but would also hurt him. Beast Master should be more about Nature, and Bows are much more natural than guns.

I also hated the Beast Master being able to "Summon Pets". Pets coming out of nowhere looks too much Magical. would rather have 2 pets fulltime without summons. Or more synergy with a single pet.

But yeah, Hunters got a weird direction in general. Hopefully they will fix somethings.


Ah, and the Worst problem i have with hunters. The one that makes me want to really punch the one who designed it in the face is: Arrows/shots being fired while you are aiming another shot, or shot while shooting. Anything that makes an arrow comes out of your bow, or a shot comes out of your gun, while you are aiming another shot. or when you shoot and some shot pops out with it.
That's freaking impossible, even for a fantasy game thats bullshit. you can't possibly fire something while aiming. Not to say that makes bow/gun animations looks dumb.

Bows/guns should be slow weapons with High damage. Not fast. They should implement reload time, aiming for all shots, even if its a 0.5sec "casting bar"(aiming bar!), and after a few shots/arrows you had to reload it. i expected blizzard to come up with that when they said they were going to revamp.

i'm not saying i'm smarter or have better ideas than everyone else who designs a MMO. But i don't understand why all those archers in all those games doesn't have to reload and/or aim. It's like we are Living Machineguns of arrows. Every other game that have guns/bows and isn't a MMO(or almost every other game) have a reload/aiming mechanic.