Was PvP gear ever really the problem?

[Deleted]

It was a problem both for casuals and competitive players. For competitive players it was something that was in the way of competitive PVP because the real competition never started until week 8-10 of the season when you got fully geared. And for casuals/new beginners it was a problem because they were getting roflstomped by people who had 3 months of gear progression on them. It's nice that it's gone but at the same time I'll miss the progression because it felt rewarding to get a piece of PVP gear and to see the difference it made.

However, now we got PVP talents and artifact weapons instead, which makes the PVP gear removal pointless. You get defensive and offensive % traits and utility that will cause massive power rifts between players throughout the season, especially in random bg's(more so than gear ever did). And not only that your class will be and feel broken until you get these PVP talents and traits. So nothing was accomplished. They simply shifted the problem from gear progression to ability progression. It's lunacy in my opinion but we'll see how it works out in reality.

[ns66]

Particularly since you cant get gear much above iLevel 800 from non-rated PvP.

if that's true, that's going back to conquest gear only for rated/arena, which had been proven a failure

[Deleted]

Whatever the speed of gear-aquisition, or other pvp talents, you'll still loose sometimes, where class balance has been out of whack for 11 years...

Unless you can tell me a period of time on WoW where all classes were perfectly or relatively well balanced to compete with eachother one on one then I think you can't say skill always wins, you'll always loose, It's RNG, It's bad luck, It's class balance, you had a bad day, you won't always be able to win, that's how you gotta take It, PvPing and any competative games with preperation for that fact.

I actually liked gear, It may have taken a month or two to get It, but at least those who were good at PvP early on would get It, and be high end already, those that don't want to be, won't be getting the gear and messing up with the "Pros" as It were.

[ns66]

They simply shifted the problem from gear progression to ability progression. It's lunacy in my opinion but we'll see how it works out in reality.

gear progression is 100x more fine grained and fun than abilities, you have different stats on gear, and you can cherry pick your preferred stats to fit your play style (say some like to hit fast others like to hit hard), you can have gems, enchants, glyphs, this is at least half the fun to make your pvp char that's the core idea of mmorpg... now some fuking idiots in blizzard want to take all that away, fuk them, i am not buying legion

[RedNight at MMOC]

Was the gear itself the problem? Maybe. Was it the fact that players joining PvP late in the season were already at a disadvantage compared to those who grinded out Arenas and Battlegrounds from the start the problem? I think it is part of the problem, more so than the actual gear.

[Deleted]

gear progression is 100x more fine grained and fun than abilities, you have different stats on gear, and you can cherry pick your preferred stats to fit your play style (say some like to hit fast others like to hit hard), you can have gems, enchants, glyphs, this is at least half the fun to make your pvp char that's the core idea of mmorpg... now some fuking idiots in blizzard want to take all that away, fuk them

I agree, this will cause more problems than gear ever did. I also found gearing to be a fun and enjoyable aspect and I will miss it. But I do understand why this needed to happen even if it removes an aspect of the game that I do enjoy. I can sacrifice that for players who struggle to get into the game, in the name of fairness or w/e you wanna call it. But again Blizzard seemed to have missed the point of gear removal entirely and inadvertently made the balance rift even larger. So they removed gear needlessly. Must be a fucking clown fiesta at Blizzard HQ.

[Kagthul]

if that's true, that's going back to conquest gear only for rated/arena, which had been proven a failure

Non-rated PvP (skirms and BGs) reward about the same as heroic dungeons, which is 820 IIRC.

[BannedForViews]

No, im saying that the gear is available to anyone, regardless of how bad they are. Reading comprehension not your thing? Check. Ill try to keep it simpler for you from now on.



... so debunked it's not funny, but lets try this one:

Do you believe that (in the last few seasons) the gap between Honor gear and Conquest gear didn't decide games? If your answer is "yes, of course it did" - then the EXACT. SAME. GEAR. DISPARITY. WILL. EXIST. IN. LEGION.

It's simple math. The base template is 90 iLevels behind top-end gear. Thats 9%. The gap between WoD CQ and Honor gear? 10 iLevels - just a little over 9.2% stat difference. Ruh roh raggy. Seems like Gear makes ... exactly the same difference it does now. Particularly since you cant get gear much above iLevel 800 from non-rated PvP. And oh yeah... dat artifact. AP gains from PvP are abysmal.



Largely because of PvP talents, no, you're correct. That has nothing to do with the topic, though.



I did earn it. I spent more time earning it than the people at the top of the ladder, even (because it was a lot slower for people who didnt do rated PvP).




Then i have no reason to participate, and neither does anyone else who cant make Glad. With no reason to participate.. numbers fall... Enjoy the empty ladders. Remember LK? Have fun.

And this isn't even accounting for the fact that PvP is supposed to be about skill, not gear... so this whole bullshit stance of "you didnt earn it, you dont deserve it" - is just not supportable. PvP -WAS- relatively fair. EVERYONE could get the same (best) gear. In the end, it came down to skill. Now? Its about getting in early or farming PvE for your gear, and farming PvE to power up your artifact.

Seems legit.

OMG you're gonna keep it simple for me? I'm so lucky!!! I understood exactly what you said, and responded to it accordingly. people can buy pve gear, so fucking what. It won't matter that much. Do you even pvp? have you not see people with more hp than you, i.e. higher ilvl? Do you lose to them on principle?

I didn't arena in wrath as much as TBC, but I did, and I don't really remember anyone complaining about empty ladders. What I remembered is that people wouldn't play for fun. They would play for 10 matches for points, and they would push rating at the end of the season. I pushed my 2s rating to top of ladder first day of the season, then I used 3s for points because there was no reason to risk 50 points to win 1, and 3s gave more anyway.


I disagree with you that it is not more balanced now. When everyone had everything it still wasn't balanced, it was just "fair". So what? The template is to ostensibly balance the game. So far it isn't balanced, but lets let them fail at it before we excoriate them for it. Also I don't know how you are so sure about what gear drops at what levels. I haven't seen any rated arenas being played. I haven't seen any blue posts or videos, and this is the website they would appear on.

I have no problem with people having a very marginal advantage for their skill/effort. As long as templates are properly balanced the marginal difference in gear won't really make a difference IMO. If they do this properly it will still be more fair for everyone, and it will give people some of the classical elitism they miss.

And I will repeat, the people with the highest ilvl pvp gear won't ever be queuing against the lower people anyway, so the only argument is that PvE hereoes will beat you from their mythic raids, and I think this is way over exaggerated.

- - - Updated - - -

Non-rated PvP (skirms and BGs) reward about the same as heroic dungeons, which is 820 IIRC.

I commented on this already, but it sounded like bullshit. There will not be a big discrepancy between the lowest and highest rated pvpers.

[Dispirit]

People still won't be able to jump on alts and be competitive unless all their alts have maxed out artifact weapon too. Artifact will be a huge cause of power imbalance in pvp.

[ns66]

I agree, this will cause more problems than gear ever did. I also found gearing to be a fun and enjoyable aspect and I will miss it. But I do understand why this needed to happen even if it removes an aspect of the game that I do enjoy. I can sacrifice that for players who struggle to get into the game, in the name of fairness or w/e you wanna call it. But again Blizzard seemed to have missed the point of gear removal entirely and inadvertently made the balance rift even larger. So they removed gear needlessly. Must be a fucking clown fiesta at Blizzard HQ.

they removed gear and replace it with other types of grind and imbalance, players actually will have bigger hurdles to cross if they come late, change spec, or even take any kind of break

legion will make pve players happy, since now they can raid and automatically get glad ilvl gear without ever pvp, then come to BG and have gear advantage over pvpers, have you guys seen raiding tank killing 10 pvpers in stormwind? lol

but I think that's a big mistake from blizzard, pvers are never the problem they need to please, raidings have always been fine, and raiders usually keep their subscriptions since they join guild and few will leave in the middle and lose all the progressions

the very players blizzard need to please and keep are the pvpers, since they usually take breaks between seasons, so blizzard lost subs, but instead of enhancing pvp and keep pvp players, they do this stupid overhaul and remove most of the fun of pvp, they will lost huge amount of pvpers, blizzard did exactly the wrong thing, legion will be the lowest sub expansions imho

[Snegovik]

how does that happen when there is a cp cap?

Catch up system implemented that when you lvl a new alt, you have a huge cap, in wod i geared my alt char in full conquest gear in just 2 days over the weekends.

[Wass]

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