University of Texas begrudgingly allows guns in classrooms

[Ghostpanther]

See, that's what I mean. If all you have to support your cause is the 2nd amendment, it's high time that amendment gets reevaluated. It is out of date.

Then it will if most here agree with you and they can get it done the lawful way which is a amendment. But it so happens there is not enough support for that. The value of the 2nd amendment is such that it allows each citizen to have the right to use arms to defend themselves. This was and still is it's purpose and many hold that to be very important.

[TITAN308]

Edit: NM, not getting drawn into that troll bait.

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Yeah, thanks for creating that stream of refugees. Swell job in Iraq, buddy. This refugee stream? It's all on you guys.

Don't look at me, I didn't do it.

[Slant]

Then it will if most here agree with you and they can get it done the lawful way which is a amendment. But it so happens there is not enough support for that. The value of the 2nd amendment is such that it allows each citizen to have the right to use arms to defend themselves. This was and still is it's purpose and many hold that to be very important.

I don't think I would object to that, except... recently people seem to fuck with other people using that amendment. What's with the idiots running around with those rifles just to fuck other people including the police off? I get it, you are constantly in danger for your life, every second you leave your home... why do they feel the need to provoke people on top of that?

And that's the reason why the 2nd amendment is a joke. It isn't there to protect you, that's just a side effect by now. By now it's there to give them idiots a power trip. I said this before, if someone has a legit reason to own a firearm, like living in Alaska in the woods or out in the wilderness on a remote farm, sure... get yourself as many rifles as you need. But the 250lbs Fatty McDirty redneck from the suburbs dicking around his toy rifle in front of an office just to embarass him in front of a video camera? Uh... no. That dude clearly is deranged and needs to get the gun taken away from him asap.

And to get back on topic: A classroom really doesn't need guns, either. You're there to fucking study and learn something, not think about the steel on your hip or who might kill you the next second. Let campus police deal with that, it's their job and unlike you, they actually train for it.

[TITAN308]

I don't think I would object to that, except... recently people seem to fuck with other people using that amendment. What's with the idiots running around with those rifles just to fuck other people including the police off? I get it, you are constantly in danger for your life, every second you leave your home... why do they feel the need to provoke people on top of that?

And that's the reason why the 2nd amendment is a joke. It isn't there to protect you, that's just a side effect by now. By now it's there to give them idiots a power trip. I said this before, if someone has a legit reason to own a firearm, like living in Alaska in the woods or out in the wilderness on a remote farm, sure... get yourself as many rifles as you need. But the 250lbs Fatty McDirty redneck from the suburbs dicking around his toy rifle in front of an office just to embarass him in front of a video camera? Uh... no. That dude clearly is deranged and needs to get the gun taken away from him asap.

I'm not one to say any subject is off limits, but not being American, what is your skin in the game on this topic exactly?

[Slant]

I'm not one to say any subject is off limits, but not being American, what is your skin in the game on this topic exactly?

To be honest, I'm fascinated by the sheer collective idiocy over there. It's mindboggling that you have people running around telling me in all earnestness they're fighting for their lives every day and that's why they need actual firearms to protect themselves. What's even more amusing is not that they try to bullshit me with that, no, they actually believe it!

I cannot convey just how unreal that is. And I'm under much the same effect as some people have when they can't look away from a car accident. It's just so horrible that I cannot stay away from it. Nothing in it makes remote sense to a civilised nation. None at all. You'd think that the masses would rise up and tell the NRA to go fuck themselves, see how quickly politics turns around and fixed the 2nd amendment to actually be a meaningful amendment that excludes display for show and power trippage. But no, the average American not owning a gun will actually just sit there and let it play out... I don't get it.

But that's not the worst of it, the worst of it is the obvious fail of the political system and its trenches. You know the problem, the President knows the problem, the GOP and the Democrats know the problem, yet nobody is going to change ony tiny bit, because they might lose power... as far as I'm concerned the US (and probably the English) democratic systems are the most corrupt democracies we have currently.

[TITAN308]

To be honest, I'm fascinated by the sheer collective idiocy over there. It's mindboggling that you have people running around telling me in all earnestness they're fighting for their lives every day and that's why they need actual firearms to protect themselves. What's even more amusing is not that they try to bullshit me with that, no, they actually believe it!

I cannot convey just how unreal that is. And I'm under much the same effect as some people have when they can't look away from a car accident. It's just so horrible that I cannot stay away from it. Nothing in it makes remote sense to a civilised nation. None at all. You'd think that the masses would rise up and tell the NRA to go fuck themselves, see how quickly politics turns around and fixed the 2nd amendment to actually be a meaningful amendment that excludes display for show and power trippage. But no, the average American not owning a gun will actually just sit there and let it play out... I don't get it.

But that's not the worst of it, the worst of it is the obvious fail of the political system and its trenches. You know the problem, the President knows the problem, the GOP and the Democrats know the problem, yet nobody is going to change ony tiny bit, because they might lose power... as far as I'm concerned the US (and probably the English) democratic systems are the most corrupt democracies we have currently.

There are a lot of generalizations and exaggerations (again) in your post.

I don't think its possible for anyone to convince or educate you of anything to be honest, you've dug your trench and you give no indication you will ever step out of it.

I'm just being up front and honest with you.

The amount of pent up anger you have about a country you don't even belong to is another issue all on its own. I have no recommendations on this.

[Ghostpanther]

To be honest, I'm fascinated by the sheer collective idiocy over there. It's mindboggling that you have people running around telling me in all earnestness they're fighting for their lives every day and that's why they need actual firearms to protect themselves. What's even more amusing is not that they try to bullshit me with that, no, they actually believe it!

I cannot convey just how unreal that is. And I'm under much the same effect as some people have when they can't look away from a car accident. It's just so horrible that I cannot stay away from it. Nothing in it makes remote sense to a civilised nation. None at all. You'd think that the masses would rise up and tell the NRA to go fuck themselves, see how quickly politics turns around and fixed the 2nd amendment to actually be a meaningful amendment that excludes display for show and power trippage. But no, the average American not owning a gun will actually just sit there and let it play out... I don't get it.

But that's not the worst of it, the worst of it is the obvious fail of the political system and its trenches. You know the problem, the President knows the problem, the GOP and the Democrats know the problem, yet nobody is going to change ony tiny bit, because they might lose power... as far as I'm concerned the US (and probably the English) democratic systems are the most corrupt democracies we have currently.

This is why you can not be taken serously on this subject. You already have this preconceived vision in your head those who disagree with you on the 2nd amendment have to be nuts. It is futile to even discuss the matter with anyone with that attitude.

[Slant]

There are a lot of generalizations and exaggerations (again) in your post.

I don't think its possible for anyone to convince or educate you of anything to be honest, you've dug your trench and you give no indication you will ever step out of it.

I'm just being up front and honest with you.

The amount of pent up anger you have about a country you don't even belong to is another issue all on its own. I have no recommendations on this.

Convince me? No. Surely not the way these discussions go and end up with "Duh, 2nd amendment". Especially not when everytime I see a new thread pops up it's another stage of crazy. Like in classrooms? See, when your High Schools started using metal detectors, I was like "Damn, that's a shame... totally stupid, but better than kids with guns in school"

These days? I wouldn't be surprised if people came to me and said "We should just give our kids guns so they can defend themselves at school". Culturally that is so vastly different from Europe that I am actually challenged to adjust my brain to that kind of reasoning...

[TITAN308]

These days? I wouldn't be surprised if people came to me and said "We should just give our kids guns so they can defend themselves at school".

Again, this is your problem, you seem pretty much incapable of stopping yourself from your own imagination.

[Slant]

This is why you can not be taken serously on this subject. You already have this preconceived vision in your head those who disagree with you on the 2nd amendment have to be nuts. It is futile to even discuss the matter with anyone with that attitude.

Oh no? I can tell you how this works...

"Why do you have a gun"
"duh 2nd amendment"
"What's that amendment for?"
"duh, defending myself!"
"against whom?"
"other guys with guns!"
"Okay, so what if we took the guns from everyone?"
"then the bad guys will still have guns!"
"But if circulation of guns is restricted, there are less guns to have, even illegally"
"doesn't matter, because the one dude robbing me will have a gun and i need to defend myself!"

Okay... I mean seriously, I've done all of these bullshit discussions by now. I've had people tell me they need to defend against a tyrannical gouvernment... like actually Washington DC being tyrannical. I've had them compare guns to cars, pools, planes.. and all kinds of ridiculous comparisons, none of which include another weapon. I've had them ridicule me for living on a continent that doesn't know the threat of guns at all. And when statitics are employed to drive home a point, they either ignore them or it ends up in a wild statistical mud wrestling match on who has the worse ability to read numbers...

Go ahead and ad hominem me some more, I don't actually give a fuck if you can carry guns or not. I have no reason to go there. I don't even care if you take me seriously or not, since obviously I don't value your input very high either. But once again I was fishing for intelligent discussion and nothing came up but "duh 2nd amendment".

I mean, literally... I stood in front of the clocktower at UT thinking about the area and how difficult it was for police and federal agents to get to that guy. Right there on the Drag. And now I'm reading that UT is actually permitting firearms on campus. At the very same campus that suffered so horribly under some psycho having easy access to a rifle. The irony is harsh in this one...