Examples of good third person/first person RPG combat systems

[axell]

Hello,
I am currently looking to experiment with unreal engine in creating a combat system from the ground up. And it want to use an existing one as a base. Now the problem is which one to choose from? Which combat systems do you feel worked best in an RPG and why? You can include both first person and third person combat systems. Bonus points for finding ones that work well both in first person and in third person.


Thanks!

[Mefistophelis]

My favorite 3rd person combat system would be Dark Souls. Choices are meaningful and impactful, punishing if you make mistakes, rewarding if played correctly.
I don't remember of any good 1st person RPG, besides skyrim for whenever archery was needed and in my opinion skyrim's combat isn't really in my favorites.

Edit: I forgot to mention Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. That game really made me a happy man. The choices in the ability system, weapons, and overall combat is just spot on.

[Wondercrab]

The Monster Hunter/Dark Souls/ Dragon's Dogma style is definitely a good one to look at. It's hard to find third person RPGs with more compelling combat than those.
I've yet to come across a non-shooter first person RPG combat system that's particularly good, though. Melee just doesn't work very well from the first person viewpoint, because you're missing a lot of the information about range/spacing/positioning/telegraphs that a third person camera allows easy access to at a glance. First person is good for shooter RPGs like Deus Ex, but compelling melee combat is the realm of third person games. If you're going for something turn-based, however, then either viewpoint can usually work just as well.

[Deleted]

Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning had a really good combat system for a 3rd person game, shame the story was rather average and the universe uncompelling.

[axell]

I personally agree about dark souls having an amazing combat system, having played all of the souls games multiple times, but the question is are they too skill based for an RPG. I mean once i got the hang of the combat system i never really felt the need to level up and upgrade my stats in order to defeat the next enemy. I only did it to be able to wield some awesome weapon i found or to make it easier for myself. Never did i get to a fuck you point where it was almost impossible for me to continue unless my character got better. It comes down to the separation of player and character. Most rpgs are too much based on character progression and not enough on player skill progression.Dark souls is based too much on player skill and not enough on character progression. I think for an RPG ,a middle ground would be the best but I might be wrong.

As for kingdoms of amalur, I have it in my steam library but never got around to play it. I will check it out for the sake of the combat system.

Thanks so far for the opinions. Keep em coming!

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I always wanted to see some kind of RPG game where the combat had the complexity of a real fighting game.

Wouldn't fights take too long in that case?

[Thrif]

The king of CPRGs ofc; Baldur's Gate. Based on the very field-tested D&D formula with hundreds of spells and funky interactions.

People were still learning things about that system like 10 years after its release. Like how to bypass magical immunity through contingency triggered self-focusing fireballs. And it could've easily be improved upon in many areas, such as stats.

Another game that has been highly praised for its combat system lately is Divinity: Original Sin, which I'd say is the second best ever. Really, in this game every fight has thousands of possibilities.

Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning had a really good combat system for a 3rd person game, shame the story was rather average and the universe uncompelling.

The combat system was the best thing about it, but I wouldn't call it a RPG. It's more of a fantasy action game.

[axell]

The Monster Hunter/Dark Souls/ Dragon's Dogma style is definitely a good one to look at. It's hard to find third person RPGs with more compelling combat than those.
I've yet to come across a non-shooter first person RPG combat system that's particularly good, though. Melee just doesn't work very well from the first person viewpoint, because you're missing a lot of the information about range/spacing/positioning/telegraphs that a third person camera allows easy access to at a glance. First person is good for shooter RPGs like Deus Ex, but compelling melee combat is the realm of third person games. If you're going for something turn-based, however, then either viewpoint can usually work just as well.

I kind of agree on the melee one, but there is Warhammer vermintide and that works really well,but that looks like they put a ton of work into it and it only works in it's own context, not sure how it would fare in an rpg.

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The king of CPRGs ofc; Baldur's Gate. Based on the very field-tested D&D formula with hundreds of spells and funky interactions.

People were still learning things about that system like 10 years after its release. Like how to bypass magical immunity through contingency triggered self-focusing fireballs. And it could've easily be improved upon in many areas, such as stats.

Another game that has been highly praised for its combat system lately is Divinity: Original Sin, which I'd say is the second best ever. Really, in this game every fight has thousands of possibilities.



The combat system was the best thing about it, but I wouldn't call it a RPG. It's more of a fantasy action game.

I loved the old infinity engine games and divinity original sin but i'm looking to make a combat system for a single character RPG, not a party one and I don't think such a combat system would work well with a single player controlled character.

[Thrif]

It comes down to the separation of player and character. Most rpgs are too much based on character progression and not enough on player skill progression. Dark souls is based too much on player skill and not enough on character progression. I think for an RPG ,a middle ground would be the best but I might be wrong.

Then you aren't really looking for a RPG, you're looking for an action RPG, or whatever you can call it. The skill involved in RPGs have always been to have a set number of resources (your characters, their skills, their items, their weapons) and figuring out how you can use those resources to overcome obstacles in forms of enemies and challenges.

If by "player skill" you mean reflexes, then no, that doesn't belong in RPGs.

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I loved the old infinity engine games and divinity original sin but i'm looking to make a combat system for a single character RPG, not a party one and I don't think such a combat system would work well with a single player controlled character.

Well, baldur's gate single player is still funnier than most of the RPGs out there. :P But fair point, that definitely does change the approach quite a bit. You should've put that in the OP.

Also, in that case - I never played it myself, but from what I've heard The Witcher 3 has gotten almost universal praise.

The game won multiple Game of the Year awards from various gaming publications, critics, and game award shows, including the Golden Joystick Awards and The Game Awards, becoming one of the most awarded games of all time.[7]

From wikipedia. I'm not sure how it plays myself, but it sounds like it's the top contender when it comes to RPGs with one character.

[axell]

Then you aren't really looking for a RPG, you're looking for an action RPG, or whatever you can call it. The skill involved in RPGs have always been to have a set number of resources (your characters, their skills, their items, their weapons) and figuring out how you can use those resources to overcome obstacles in forms of enemies and challenges.

If by "player skill" you mean reflexes, then no, that doesn't belong in RPGs.

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Well, baldur's gate single player is still funnier than most of the RPGs out there. :P But fair point, that definitely does change the approach quite a bit. You should've put that in the OP.

Also, in that case - I never played it myself, but from what I've heard The Witcher 3 has gotten almost universal praise.



From wikipedia. I'm not sure how it plays myself, but it sounds like it's the top contender when it comes to RPGs with one character.

Well the funny thing is that the only gripe most people have with witcher is it's combat system. I don't think it's bad , it's just serviceable.

[Afrospinach]

I always wanted to see some kind of RPG game where the combat had the complexity of a real fighting game.

Wouldn't fights take too long in that case?

Fights can never last too long! >.>

But seriously sleeping dogs had a bit of a crack at this, it was still rather simplistic but fun. There were also environment points where you could end a fight often immediately in some hilarious ways like dumping a dude head first into a trashcan of stuffing their face through a fan. The onlookers sort of gathered around waiting to fight but if you really stacked it they could all hurt you iirc.

It had counters, combos, that sort of thing. One of the more interesting things that has graced the GTA genre in recent years. Somewhat applicable to RPGs imo. Had a talent tree and that sort of thing.

The combat system was the best thing about it, but I wouldn't call it a RPG. It's more of a fantasy action game.

I think a lot of people WANT more action in their RPGs. This whole stat thing is becoming rather bland, you need a fun mechanic and KoAR put some thought into that.

[axell]

Fights can never last too long! >.>

But seriously sleeping dogs had a bit of a crack at this, it was still rather simplistic but fun. There were also environment points where you could end a fight often immediately in some hilarious ways like dumping a dude head first into a trashcan of stuffing their face through a fan. The onlookers sort of gathered around waiting to fight but if you really stacked it they could all hurt you iirc.

It had counters, combos, that sort of thing. One of the more interesting things that has graced the GTA genre in recent years. Somewhat applicable to RPGs imo. Had a talent tree and that sort of thing.



I think a lot of people WANT more action in their RPGs. This whole stat thing is becoming rather bland, you need a fun mechanic and KoAR put some thought into that.

Even though i did finish sleeping dogs I completely forgot about the fight mechanic. But you re right it was pretty engaging.

[FobManX]

Mass Effect 2 and 3

[Wondercrab]

I personally agree about dark souls having an amazing combat system, having played all of the souls games multiple times, but the question is are they too skill based for an RPG. I mean once i got the hang of the combat system i never really felt the need to level up and upgrade my stats in order to defeat the next enemy. I only did it to be able to wield some awesome weapon i found or to make it easier for myself. Never did i get to a fuck you point where it was almost impossible for me to continue unless my character got better. It comes down to the separation of player and character. Most rpgs are too much based on character progression and not enough on player skill progression.Dark souls is based too much on player skill and not enough on character progression. I think for an RPG ,a middle ground would be the best but I might be wrong.

That's the kind of thing you can balance via the scaling of your game. Dark Souls is mostly beatable without much leveling because the stats of both the player and the enemies they face don't scale to a ludicrous degree as the game goes on, nor does the player need to unlock any critical combat abilities via leveling in order to progress.

This is the kind of thing you can adjust by having your game scale much more aggressively (eg, the player and enemies become up to ~1000x stronger by the end of the game, rather than just ~10x stronger), which puts much more emphasis on leveling up in order to compete with new content. Or, alternately, you can tie critical combat abilities into the leveling system.

By this I mean, say you only unlock invincibility frames on your dodge after reaching level 10, and there's a boss whose attacks are unavoidable without using invincibility frames to get through them, and it's tuned so that you need to avoid at least some attacks in order to survive the encounter. Then the player is required to reach at least level 10 before they can beat that boss.

That's an extreme example that isn't actually great design, though, since it means player skill can *never* trump grinding levels in certain situations, which is very offputting to most players. A much better approach is to make certain bosses, enemies, or stages much easier after acquiring skills that are only rewarded at a certain level, but not completely unbeatable without them. This is basically what Souls, Monster Hunter, DD etc. do with their systems, but you can adjust the balance to something that suits your goals more closely.

[Super Kami Dende]

Shadow of Mordor.

[mizeri]

witcher series, mass effect series, dragon age origins and DA inquisition, batman arkham series ( i kinda think of them as rpg's)

[Deleted]

I enjoy the shooters with cover system, where you have to use cover or get 3 shotted.

A multiplayer game like that would be very interesting, where you would have to always stay in cover or get wrecked if caught outside it, and the two teams would have to slowly proceed toward one another while avoiding getting shot. Add a class that can break the stalemate and force the confrontation, that is tanky, like an armored shotgunner that can take some beating and rush the enemy positions to force them to move or get one shotted by the shotgun at close range. Add snipers that can instantly kill any exposed target.

Yeah, kind of a slow gameplay but with a lot of depth and tactics.

[WarpedAcorn]

I think a lot of people WANT more action in their RPGs. This whole stat thing is becoming rather bland, you need a fun mechanic and KoAR put some thought into that.

Speaking for all gamers, I agree. ; )

Stat bumps are a core of RPG mechanics, but they are incredibly bland. Referencing the Souls series, you don't get excited when you get your Strength to 22, you get excited when you get a new weapon with a new move set. Or more specifically, you get excited when you can do something new and different. Adding abilities is WAY more rewarding than adding stats.

Even in tabletop gaming, abilities are more fun than Stats. Right now I'm playing a Cleric/Fighter in a D&D 5.0 game. Next level I can either increase a single stat by 2 points or choose a new ability (Feat). Its almost a no brainer, because while the stat bump will provide an "always on" effect that will provide a marginal increase in effectiveness, choosing a new ability/feat means I am adding an entirely new tool to my arsenal.

[May90]

Unreal Engine? Well, Mass Effect 2/3 combat would be my pick. But then, you are probably looking for a fantasy RPG combat, right? Then... I don't know, really, since I'm not sure which other games among those I've played used Unreal Engine.

[axell]

Unreal Engine? Well, Mass Effect 2/3 combat would be my pick. But then, you are probably looking for a fantasy RPG combat, right? Then... I don't know, really, since I'm not sure which other games among those I've played used Unreal Engine.

Doesn't have to be unreal engine. There is no real limitation of what the combat can be based on the engine used. But i think i will start out with a simplified version of the dark souls combat and see how that goes. Thanks for the suggestions so far. Were really helpful.