Fire Mage Artifact Effect, Water Strider Changes Reverted, Blue Posts, Arcane Preview

[chaud]

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Legion - Fire Mage Artifact Effect
In addition to the flame orb that follows you around when the Fire Mage artifact is equipped, the corpses of your enemies will sometimes be on fire, smoking, and burned to a crisp! Right now the effect happens less frequently as a target's level increases, but it isn't clear if that is intended. Unfortunately it didn't make free Crispy Bacon when we tested it on the boars.

You can see the original Fire Mage artifact weapons here, as well as the sixth variation that was added later.

What kind of effects would you like to see on other Artifact weapons? Feel free to leave suggestions in the comments!

Legion - Water Striders Not Restricted By Location

After further discussion, we will be reverting these changes entirely, and Water Striders’ water-walking will not be restricted by location.

As noted in my earlier post in the thread, the genesis of this change was an observation that the Water Strider was being used disproportionately frequently, which led to a genuine concern on our part that the mechanical advantage of water-walking was stomping on the cosmetic choice of a player’s favorite mount. This is different from other utility mounts like the Traveler’s Mammoth or Expedition Yak, which are rarely used for any prolonged period of time or as a default mount; those are summoned specifically for the use of their vendors and then dismissed.

We don’t have any concern with water-walking as a concept, and the various player abilities and consumables that provide it are a great source of convenience. We’re not trying to make travel less convenient, or restrict player freedom. We observed what seemed like a potential problem, explored some solutions, and clearly the cure has proven worse than the disease. Thank you for your feedback.

Legion Class Feedback

Druid (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
Restoration Druid Feedback -- Build 21154 -- 24-Feb
It also isn't like you can tune it around being better at 1.7 HoT effects or something
I'm not sure what you mean--this happens to be almost exactly what the current version of Harmony is tuned to, in fact. While it could of course be adjusted if needed (which wouldn't be surprising, it's a new and unusual sort of effect), it's a good opportunity to mention that this was roughly our initial estimate of how strong it would have to be to be appropriately effective in normal use. In other words, any HoT, simply by virtue of being a HoT, is getting more than half the typical value of mastery even on its own. And anytime there are two HoTs (not unusual, especially in presence of various talents), you're getting something at or above par. I get the impression that people are significantly overestimating how many HoTs one has to have stacked to get reasonable value out of the mastery. In addition, the mastery naturally lends itself to much stronger tank healing than Resto Druid has traditionally had, which may not be something people are used to.

A number of posts on feedback threads have mentioned Wild Growth's targeting. Wild Growth should be fully smart, as it was in Mists, ever since the start of this alpha. Let us know if you observe any different behavior (when cast on player targets). (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Paladin (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
Protection Paladin Feedback -- Build 21154 -- 24-Feb
In-combat self-healing for tanks is an interesting discussion. Self-healing and mitigation fill the same role, but do so in different ways. I think it's fair to say that you'd expect Paladins to be heavier on self-healing and weaker on mitigation, than your average tank, but it may not feel that way in practice, being focused into one prominent ability.

For those curious, early on in development of Legion, all damage mitigated by SotR was added to your next LotP (which was a flat heal amount). This was a really neat idea, but had significant scaling problems that ultimately made it impossible to balance. That led to exploring alternate designs for LotP.

We're also seeing mixed feedback about core gameplay. Interestingly, some people love it, some people find it "bland due to no resource". Mechanically, they have pretty much the same resource as live (SotR charges), just with a bigger pool and additional passive generation rate. But for some people, that feels different, and it's interesting to explore why.

There should be no diminishing returns on SotR; it merely smooths the value of Mastery/Avenger'sShield over the new duration if you refresh with a different Mastery/Avenger'sShield value than you cast the first one with (so there's no snapshotting problems). Let us know if that's bugged somehow.

It's intentional that you can hit a target multiple times with Blessed Hammer (aiming it such that you can do that is a very obvious point of the talent, and it would be very disappointing if you couldn't do so). But it should feel in your control to do so, not random. Let us know if it feels more random than controllable.

Thanks for all the useful feedback; keep it coming! (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Priest (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
Discipline Bugs
Power Word: Radiance is favoring me when I use it on the Weak Lightspawn Training Dummies in the priest class hall.

Even if I directly position myself so that both lightspawn are closer to my target lightspawn than I am, I will still be one of the "closest targets" for PW:Radiance over them. It always heals two of the dummies and me, when my position should cause it to heal all 3 dummies. I've tried this with casting PW:R on all 3 training dummies and it ALWAYS heals me as one of the targets.

There is definitely something weird going on with the "closest targets" thing.
We changed PW:R to favor players over pets/guardians, so you'll see this if you try to test out its targeting with yourself and a bunch of dummies or NPCs. It should work as described if you test on players. Please let us know if you keep seeing a bug where it hits too many targets or are able to reproduce it. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Warlock (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
Demonology Warlock Feedback -- Build 21154 -- 24-Feb
Why is Implosion a talent and Imp to the Breach a gold artifact ring ability...
Imp to the Breach will be changed, for the reasons you've identified.

Lots of great feedback here, thanks! Some random notes in no particular order:

• Pet AI in general has some bugs with responsiveness right now. Those'll get fixed.
• We don't see the synergy between Summon Beholder and Hand of Doom as a problem, because in that situation, you'd almost certainly want Hand of Doom *anyway*, regardless of the presence of Summon Beholder. The exception to this is if you're only applying the Doom for the Beholder to hit it, and they die before the Doom can tick. In that somewhat-unusual situation, it's an interesting combination to work around that limitation, so we're fine with it.
• Demonic Servitude isn't used because the Doomguard and Infernal are undertuned right now. That's also contributing to the feeling that Warlocks "don't have a cooldown anymore". You'll find that they've been massively buffed in the next build, in hopes of solving both of those issues.
• The bug with shard-consuming spells appearing to consume an additional shard will be fixed soon, probably by the next build.
• Demonic Empowerment has several issues currently; it's not affecting the health and energy regen of most demons. Those'll get fixed soon. Additionally, we're planning to make it much smarter about which demons it buffs, reducing the need for tracking timing; it'll just do the "right" thing, including giving it a 'pandemic' window.
• In general, please remember that tuning hasn't happened yet, so things like talents seeming better than their peers will get solved.

Our doomguard has a 20 second duration and service has a 25 duration WHY do we need pandemic added to the 12 second buff?
Could you clarify this? I don't understand what you're asking; what's the significance of their duration to whether DE can pandemic? (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blue Posts

Flight Paths
Ultima Online, one of the older MMOs (2nd oldest, arguable), has a Rune and Rune book system. You can "save" a location on a Rune. Then, you can either Recall (teleport) directly there repeatedly or cast a Portal spell on the Rune and create a portal to that location. You can also place these Rune in a Rune book, and do the same thing. I carried many Rune books. I made and sold many, too. The travel system in WoW is so archaic.
I think that's what draws me to it though. The flightpath system hasn't changed too much throughout its existence, bar some improvements on the pathing of certain routes.

I personally think the kind of systems mentioned above make the world seem exceptionally tiny, and I wouldn't want to see them in WoW. From my experience in those games, I always felt that the world was constrained due to the lack of engagement I felt was necessary with the world after discovering those points, which is a huge lose of immersion for me.

One of the biggest draws for me is how big Azeroth is, and even moreso with gryphons and wyverns carrying passengers being largely ingrained in the lore.

While a minor inconvenience of a few minutes of your time to alt-tab out during a flight, to others, that experience of the adventure and exploration could be the biggest part of the game, ya know?

It only "seems" tiny, but the biggest difference is, to even create the rune, you have to walk there. There was no automated travel system (flightmaster), and the time spent letting the game play for you, is spent doing other fun thing in the game. Plus, once "there", you either had to hoof it back, or use another rune, especially if the rune was "mislabled, honest /whistles"...

You were playing the game more, instead of sitting on an automated system that plays the game for you.
I can agree that there might be a better way make the system engaging, but I just don't feel that something like the above ones were necessarily a good solution for Azeroth.

Perception plays a big role in immersion for many players, though, and I think an instant teleport system to nearly anywhere absolutely kills that. I enjoy the bit of effort that exists in getting around the world, and it makes it feel more alive to me - flightmasters, boats, zeppelins, etc., may seem "archaic", but WoW would feel completely different without these things to me.

There's already so many ways to get around using things like mage portals, certain class teleports, engineering gadgets, Cataclysm portals, flying mounts, etc, that the typical flight from a flightmaster is hardly noticeable these days.

I would argue that those other games feel more engaging, because although you might arrive at the teleport zone more quickly, the lack of flying mounts makes the zone feel bigger once you arrive. FF14 does have limited flying in some zones, and I'm not sure if Rift ever implemented flying but they too use the teleport system.

The runebook system from Ultima Online was super amazing. I used to love picking up random runes with oddball descriptions and seeing where the hell it sent me. There are so many great things from that game that have not been replicated since. However, I'm not sure wow fun it would be in today's world. Back in the late 90's I thought it was super cool that I was playing a game, through the internet, fighting monsters, with other people who might not live anywhere near me. That alone was enough of a wow factor! Now adays, we as consumers expact more, and I feel like that is part of the perceived problem with World of Warcraft. Just being online adventuring isn't enough anymore, and the amount of MMO competition has exploded! One of my favorite games is Cryptic's Champions Online which is technically in the superhero genre even though I usually make Fantasy themed characters. The leve; of customization, both visual and ability based, is staggering in that game. I could make a cyborg warlock elf who can summon demons & robots, heal, and fly around on a magic rainbow cloud in that game.

Even though that particular MMO doesn't seem super successful, porb ably due to being stuck in the Super Hero Genre, I really believe if that level of customization was adapted to a High Fantasy setting it could be wildly successful. Also, Champions Online has always suffered from a lack of engaging endgame content - or at least it did back during its 2009 launch.

Edit: I went off on a tangent, sorry.

TL;DR A teleport to zone system has less effect on making the world feel small and insignificant than flying does.

Also, the Garrison system was poisonous to the world as well. I liked the garrison, I really did, but I feel like more needs to be done to get people out in the world! tanaan was semi-ok but once flying became possible you guys basically ruined everything. I even enjoy flying! Which irks the hell out of me because I also agree that it makes the world feel !@#$ty! /endrant
I can see where you are coming from, and that's 100% an acceptable point of view. I think it's good to add that these are my own thoughts here, not necessarily how anyone on the development team views flightmasters. I also think your tangent was more on point than what came after it. ;P

Anyways... Some people don't care about travelling around the world and such, and I think WoW does a good job giving those people options to save them some time. I do think, though, that there is more than one type of player that we think about in a situation like this. Those of you who want to get places faster have the means to do so through various mechanics such as mage portals and trinkets/tabards/etc, and those players who want to be immersed can do so as well by walking or flying.

When I refer to the "experience", I'm thinking more of flightmasters in Azeroth itself (not necessarily in Draenor), where the longest flight you would be taking would be from a zone back to the nearest capital such as The Barrens to Orgrimmar or Westfall to Stormwind, which hardly seems like something I would consider a chore. I find it a good time to enjoy things such as the art and the music which make WoW what it is. Again, some players may not want to experience these things like this, and, as said, there are options available that cut down any kind of travel time dramatically.

I think that's the point where we disagree, though. I find that because Azeroth is mostly seamless, save continent swamps and instances, it would be more detrimental to the feeling of the world to chop it up with load screens more than it already is. A large chunk of the other titles mentioned already have a loading screen at the edge of every zone, which would affect my personal immersion.

This is just what is coming to mind, so I'm not 100% if this made enough sense so that you can follow.

Idk about the whole immersion argument. Whenever I go on a fp is just tab out. Every Single Time. I mean I'm sure some people out there will watch avidly the whole thing with the passion of a young Britney spears but to me FP is just a loading screen.
I think that's just one way to look at it, so don't get me wrong. There is a whole forum full of those "Britney Spears'" who love the story and immersion of the world, after all.

Huh? We'd have no idea they were a blue. They'd come in as any other player and voice their opinion like the rest of us.
When I said that, I meant that I wanted to share my personal opinion, more so, and less of an official Blizzard stance. Engaging and talking with you guys is something we like to do, but it doesn't always have to mean that we are making a philosophical statement that the entire company is behind.

Edit: Excuse the wall of quote (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blue Tweets

Classes
Druid (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
I don't get swipe change. Can only get 3 sacks of lascerate in 18 seconds? How do you proc reset mangle? Is moonfire filler ST?
Rest assured, related things that currently work with Lacerate will work with Swipe instead, with adjustments if needed. (Celestalon)

Lore
The Warcraft Chronicle preview is interesting... Especially the implication that Earth is Arcane and Fire is Fel.
They're associated but not linked. Titans forged planets, so are close to Earth and Water. (DaveKosak)
...Who else is associated with earth? The Old Gods. And who did they corrupt first? The Earthwarder! (DaveKosak)

Perhaps you can settle a debate between friends. Do dragons choose the features of their guises or are such features innate
Don't know that we ever answered that for certain. I always thought it was a choice of form, but don't think we ever say. (DaveKosak)

Pets and Pet Battles
Hi! We are testing out the impact of epic battle pets and training stones. This is a good thread for feedback: https://t.co/sNYntKaIGZ (Muffinus)
I just have to wonder, what is the point? Soft nerf of old fights? Busy work? I can't see value in this.
been discussing it since 5.2, assets exist, not a huge power gain, gives all-rare people something, didn't want to up level to 30+ (Muffinus)
It's why I was asking. From here it just looks like you are moving the goal posts a bit for no perceived benefit. It all evens out
design-rewards-wise, often moving the end lets you speed up the middle, aiding catch-up without lessening total time (Muffinus)

More Pet Battle chat. Cosmetic epics (adds purple, maybe some glowy fx) is prob. do-able. For those at "almost all rare," still feel bad? (Muffinus)
What are your thoughts regarding my idea of Legion pets in Legion content, until point, then all pets unlocked for Legion areas?
hard to answer in short form, think there's a lot of design space for limited-pet fights/tournaments/etc. (Muffinus)

I understand! it'sjust wierd to me! I wonder it's peer pressure or that everybody actually have the exact same feeling...
seems to be a strong sentiment of "but I was almost done!" Which is entirely valid for a collection system. (Muffinus)

It may take some time to get used to the idea of upgrading every pet to epic. It's a pretty big change that can scare people away.
This is all good feedback, keep it up (Muffinus)

(2/2) Maybe if it were possible to keep leveling a pet past 25 to increase its rarity. Getting 700 stones feels like too much.
That's a concern, players that have put many hours into upgrading 700 pets and feeling "done" + feeling good. It's ok to be done. (Muffinus)

Final Boss - Arcane Mage Spec Preview
Final Boss is back with another spec preview!

[Collected]

Not sure I'm a huge fan of the fire mage corpse smoke effect. Wonder if they'll tone that down a bit.

[Deleted]

I'm hoping for some kind of interaction between Demon Hunters and demons..

[Yelmurc]

Love the fire mage effect. I'm curious if every class and spec will get this type of treatment. I'd have a hard time coming up with an idea for everything. Lets hope blizzard gets creative.

[Deleted]

I can see a simple fix for water striders. Make them run slower on the ground and run at usual speed on the water. This would prevent "just in case" usage of these mounts. Speed debuff on ground doesnt need to be high, even -10% would be enough to discourage overusage.

[Ahovv]

This guy has no clue what he's talking about regarding Arcane. He acts as if a lot of the abilities are changed when in fact they already exist in that state.

[tearsofflame]

Love the fire mage effect. I'm curious if every class and spec will get this type of treatment. I'd have a hard time coming up with an idea for everything. Lets hope blizzard gets creative.

Prot warriors artifact effect: Everytime you kill or assist kill an enemy yielding experience or honor, Critical Block is automatically casted for original duration.

Guardian Druid: Every time you gain a kill or an assist kill with a target yielding experience or honor, you gain Ursocs Calling, which greatly increases your size overtime for the next 10 seconds and increases Health.

Discipline Priest: Each target that dies yielding experience or honor while youre healing gives you an instant cast of Shield barrier regardless if the soul is weakened and costs no mana.

Holy Paladin: Your heals have a chance for guardians of ancient kings to be casted. Approx 10% chance on process

Beast Mastery Hunter: You gain Duo Beasts! Granting you to summon a second pet in your stable for 5 minutes. 10 minute Cool down.

Arcane Mage: You infuse yourself with arcane energy. Random arcane bolts will randomly hit ebemeis within 40yrds. Approx 30 procs per minute.

Demo Warlocks: You now can Have Infernal and DoomGuard up at the same time. Controlling both of them, but both their damage is reduced by 50%.

Enhancement Shaman: Leader of the wolves. Each attack now has a chance to summon a wolf to fight by your side for 10 seconds and reduces the cooldown of your feral spirits with each attack.

Blood Death Knight: All your strikes heal you and your blood strike has an additional 10% heal.

Outlaw Rogue: Your attacks randomly shoot a cannon ball at the location dealing 320% damage and ignoring all armor, does a stun, and a burning effect over time for the next 5 seconds. Approx 5% chance on attacks. If youre using pistol shot, the effect is doubled.

[Apolyc]

Prot warriors artifact effect: Everytime you kill or assist kill an enemy yielding experience or honor, Critical Block is automatically casted for original duration.

Guardian Druid: Every time you gain a kill or an assist kill with a target yielding experience or honor, you gain Ursocs Calling, which greatly increases your size overtime for the next 10 seconds and increases Health.

Discipline Priest: Each target that dies yielding experience or honor while youre healing gives you an instant cast of Shield barrier regardless if the soul is weakened and costs no mana.

Holy Paladin: Your heals have a chance for guardians of ancient kings to be casted. Approx 10% chance on process

Beast Mastery Hunter: You gain Duo Beasts! Granting you to summon a second pet in your stable for 5 minutes. 10 minute Cool down.

Arcane Mage: You infuse yourself with arcane energy. Random arcane bolts will randomly hit ebemeis within 40yrds. Approx 30 procs per minute.

Demo Warlocks: You now can Have Infernal and DoomGuard up at the same time. Controlling both of them, but both their damage is reduced by 50%.

Enhancement Shaman: Leader of the wolves. Each attack now has a chance to summon a wolf to fight by your side for 10 seconds and reduces the cooldown of your feral spirits with each attack.

Blood Death Knight: All your strikes heal you and your blood strike has an additional 10% heal.

Outlaw Rogue: Your attacks randomly shoot a cannon ball at the location dealing 320% damage and ignoring all armor, does a stun, and a burning effect over time for the next 5 seconds. Approx 5% chance on attacks. If youre using pistol shot, the effect is doubled.

You missed the point of the effect entirely! It's a pure cosmetic, no effect on power level or game play at all. You had a good one with guardian druid with increasing your size but lost it when you also gain a health increase

[Pannekaker]

I'm just hoping they'll put the Flame Orb in the center, really bothers me. :'(

[Nefarious Tea]

Love the fire mage effect. I'm curious if every class and spec will get this type of treatment. I'd have a hard time coming up with an idea for everything. Lets hope blizzard gets creative.

Mages are a perennial teacher's pet of Blizzard; there hasn't been a time ever in WoW where mages weren't in the top 3 dps on one spec or another. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if having extra effects were unique to mage.

[ohshift]

Prot warriors artifact effect: Everytime you kill or assist kill an enemy yielding experience or honor, Critical Block is automatically casted for original duration.

Guardian Druid: Every time you gain a kill or an assist kill with a target yielding experience or honor, you gain Ursocs Calling, which greatly increases your size overtime for the next 10 seconds and increases Health.

Discipline Priest: Each target that dies yielding experience or honor while youre healing gives you an instant cast of Shield barrier regardless if the soul is weakened and costs no mana.

Holy Paladin: Your heals have a chance for guardians of ancient kings to be casted. Approx 10% chance on process

Beast Mastery Hunter: You gain Duo Beasts! Granting you to summon a second pet in your stable for 5 minutes. 10 minute Cool down.

Arcane Mage: You infuse yourself with arcane energy. Random arcane bolts will randomly hit ebemeis within 40yrds. Approx 30 procs per minute.

Demo Warlocks: You now can Have Infernal and DoomGuard up at the same time. Controlling both of them, but both their damage is reduced by 50%.

Enhancement Shaman: Leader of the wolves. Each attack now has a chance to summon a wolf to fight by your side for 10 seconds and reduces the cooldown of your feral spirits with each attack.

Blood Death Knight: All your strikes heal you and your blood strike has an additional 10% heal.

Outlaw Rogue: Your attacks randomly shoot a cannon ball at the location dealing 320% damage and ignoring all armor, does a stun, and a burning effect over time for the next 5 seconds. Approx 5% chance on attacks. If youre using pistol shot, the effect is doubled.

"How to miss the point 101" here folks

[kaltra]

You really need to stop linking finalboss videos, he talks way to much nonsense and there are much better people putting videos out.

[Unholyground]

Simple solution to the strider, a mount transmogrify system should be sufficient to solve their issues that would be far more acceptable. This system would allow you to use any mount look to gain any special mount effect, at this point it may as well happen.

[Deleted]

I'm just hoping they'll put the Flame Orb in the center, really bothers me. :'(

That is not enough. If they don't make 3 flame orbs accualy oribt around the head (like Kael'thas - I think felo'melorn used to belong to him) I will kill myself, i would not handle such cosmetic failure.

[grexly75]

I can see a simple fix for water striders. Make them run slower on the ground and run at usual speed on the water. This would prevent "just in case" usage of these mounts. Speed debuff on ground doesnt need to be high, even -10% would be enough to discourage overusage.

Unfortunately with how some of the community are they would probably bitch and moan about that as well..

[rampagingtaco43]

Guardian Druid: Every time you gain a kill or an assist kill with a target yielding experience or honor, you gain Ursocs Calling, which greatly increases your size overtime for the next 10 seconds and increases Health.

That was my favorite effect from the Dragon Soul Agi staff from Deathwing. It took me forever to get one on my druid and hunter, then i got really depressed when hunters had their polearm taken away.

[Goom]

For Dks have it proc a soul being sucked out of the corpse as if you were absorbing it like the LK

For Pally, a bright light ascends to the heavens (possibly only against undead?) signifying you purged the soul of evil

For Lock, the old drain soul animation

For Druid, roots/flowers sprout from the body

[ElDoorO]

I'm going to agree -- the UO method for transportation is superior to WoW's. At the very least WoW could make a flightpath a teleport to another flight path instead of waiting forever while alt+tabbed out. Go to a flight master to enable slow-mode if you want.

GW2 is superior to WoW.
Pretty much everything, in terms of transportation, is superior to WoW.

This is part of why I've stopped playing (or I'd respond I'm the forums, by they don't want unsubscribed opinions).

The system needs work, and badly, in my opinion. Flying everywhere was the only redeeming thing in Cata, next to LFR (which was a cluster-fuck, initially -- but levelled out). With LFR I was able to get intimidated friends into raiding. With flying everywhere it made the Buggy Ass (TM) terrain engine bearable. I can run over a fucking tree but I get stuck on a goddamn rock? How does that even happen? Not to mention "Path not available" on certain characters, yet somehow enemies are able to magically target me and get to me, or blinking 2 feet because of a weird terrain bug.

- - - Updated - - -

That was my favorite effect from the Dragon Soul Agi staff from Deathwing. It took me forever to get one on my druid and hunter, then i got really depressed when hunters had their polearm taken away.

This, hands down, has been *the* coolest item in the game for me and I don't even find druids fun but seeing my bear become a one hell of a beast... now that... that ruled. Purely cosmetic and very cool.

[Mazzic518]

Good for the water strider!

[shadowmatrix]

I like how using the water strider mounts is a "disease" according to the Blizzard team/blue post. Yeah, having it so you can run across water with a mount that takes a bit of effort to get is a "disease" because swimming in your game blows. I'm seriously concerned with Blizzard's path at the moment and their lack of truly caring what happens with WoW. Is this a sign of what's to come from Blizzard? Because if it is, it was nice knowing you for AAA games.

Swimming in WOW is pretty much the same as it is in other games so that's not an issue. The "disease" isn't the mount it's the trend to take the path of least resistance. Why change mounts when the quickest path goes across several bodies of water? After a while we start to get used to using the strider and stop using the other all together.

Their lack of caring? If they didn't care they would have shut the game down or changed the model already. I've played some bad MMOs and WOW is nowhere near being bad. Even at it's worst it is still in the top 5.