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  1. #41
    Marksmanship can keep up everything without a problem, the only limit to that is player skill. In Survival's case it's a mathematical impossibility to have enough focus to do all the shit on CD.

    Flanking Strike's cost needs to drop, since that's the biggest spender by far.

    You need to Raptor Strike every 15s, 30 focus per 15s or 2 per second.
    Flanking Strike every 5.63 seconds for 50 focus, 8.9 focus per second.
    Laceration every 12 seconds for 35 focus, 2.91 focus per second.
    Throwing Axes every 14.1 seconds for 15 focus, 1.06 focus per second.

    To do all of this, you need like 15 focus per second to play around with. Keep in mind that this is just to JUST about do it, not accounting for any focus you waste (and you will, when doing back-to-back Mongoose Bites) and the fact that you'll pretty much always refresh Serpent Sting and Laceration early. They are Pandemic-affected, but most people are retarded and just use Laceration on cooldown, or use Raptor Strike when they are not supposed to, etc.

    Even worse if you go with Way of the Mok'Nathal. Then Throwing Axes is not a problem, so discount 1 focus per second, but now you need to Raptor Strike every 8 seconds instead for 3.75 focus per second instead of 2.

    You have a passive regen of 10.56, so you're waaaay fucking short. This is with PvP realm levels of Haste btw.
    Last edited by Azortharion; 2016-03-19 at 07:03 PM.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Are traps worth it now to be in rotation for a single target?
    Last edited by mmoc7c5210db5a; 2016-03-19 at 09:00 PM.

  3. #43
    Yes, you both Steel Trap and Explosive Trap singletarget.

  4. #44
    Keyboard Turner MurderMittens's Avatar
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    This may be off topic but if Lone Wolf is becoming a talent for Marksmanship do you think there is a possibility that Survival could get a "Lone Wolf" style talent. An idea could be to flavor it with some Shadow Hunter Loa aspects and have that replace the pets damage component.

    It would also let people be Dark Rangers (from MM's Black Arrow) and Shadow Hunters which are both sub-classes in the game that could never fully become fleshed out classes. Master's Call could become Loa's Blessing, your Mastery could just be your abilities instead of your pets.

    Now to contribute to the actual discussion, I really don't like the Artifact traits for Survival. Everything is a straight damage boost with no intricacies to it. Enhancement Shamans have Wind Strikes which is more interesting as it's not a straight buff to one of your spells. One of the ideas I had would be to change Ancient Power to a 3/3 Raptor's Cry (which seems to be the trend with the first talent point increasing your filler's damage) and create a talent that would give Flanking Strike a scaling chance to extend the duration of your Mongoose Fury. Would that be interesting?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by MurderMittens View Post
    This may be off topic but if Lone Wolf is becoming a talent for Marksmanship do you think there is a possibility that Survival could get a "Lone Wolf" style talent. An idea could be to flavor it with some Shadow Hunter Loa aspects and have that replace the pets damage component.

    It would also let people be Dark Rangers (from MM's Black Arrow) and Shadow Hunters which are both sub-classes in the game that could never fully become fleshed out classes. Master's Call could become Loa's Blessing, your Mastery could just be your abilities instead of your pets.

    Now to contribute to the actual discussion, I really don't like the Artifact traits for Survival. Everything is a straight damage boost with no intricacies to it. Enhancement Shamans have Wind Strikes which is more interesting as it's not a straight buff to one of your spells. One of the ideas I had would be to change Ancient Power to a 3/3 Raptor's Cry (which seems to be the trend with the first talent point increasing your filler's damage) and create a talent that would give Flanking Strike a scaling chance to extend the duration of your Mongoose Fury. Would that be interesting?
    Responding to your first point about survival and lone wolf. Honestly, I'd rather just keep LW with MM, because being at the front lines with my pet is actually a badass thought, and it's actually pretty damn cool in terms of class fantasy/spec fantasy. Personally I like it, feels like we're actually with our pet for once.

  6. #46
    Keyboard Turner MurderMittens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    Responding to your first point about survival and lone wolf. Honestly, I'd rather just keep LW with MM, because being at the front lines with my pet is actually a badass thought, and it's actually pretty damn cool in terms of class fantasy/spec fantasy. Personally I like it, feels like we're actually with our pet for once.
    I understand that and I figured that would be the general consensus but I really want to play a spec that uses a 2h weapon and doesn't have a pet. It looks like Arms/Ret are my best bets but I really don't like how they play compared to the hunter. Like they removed Frost DK, WW Monks, and 2h Shaman hasn't been viable since WotLK, it's just disheartening. Sorry, rant over.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    Yes, you both Steel Trap and Explosive Trap singletarget.
    Kind of figured that'd be the case the moment I saw the trap buffs. But it sucks to hear about the focus starve situation. Has anybody with Alpha given them feedback on that? Cause that kind of goes against their stat scale changing idea of "making specs not feel awful without really good gear"
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius
    Alas, sweet prince! You hath received thine own ass handed to ye.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by MurderMittens View Post
    I understand that and I figured that would be the general consensus but I really want to play a spec that uses a 2h weapon and doesn't have a pet. It looks like Arms/Ret are my best bets but I really don't like how they play compared to the hunter. Like they removed Frost DK, WW Monks, and 2h Shaman hasn't been viable since WotLK, it's just disheartening. Sorry, rant over.
    Depends on how you view things. I love the idea of hitting the boss while actually standing with my pet. There is no other melee in the game (other than unholy) that has a pet that you'd be on the front lines with, so it's somewhat unique. Obviously this is a bit subjective, but it's refreshing to have changes like this to the class, Hunter was my first class ever created, and I mained it from the beginning of wrath all the way into WoD, where I started picking up warrior and hunter as my mains, so I might be a bit biased.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Taeldorian View Post
    Depends on how you view things. I love the idea of hitting the boss while actually standing with my pet. There is no other melee in the game (other than unholy) that has a pet that you'd be on the front lines with, so it's somewhat unique. Obviously this is a bit subjective, but it's refreshing to have changes like this to the class, Hunter was my first class ever created, and I mained it from the beginning of wrath all the way into WoD, where I started picking up warrior and hunter as my mains, so I might be a bit biased.
    I don't like pets in video games, honestly. They're AI controlled which means they're dumb as shit (cf. all pets being immune to aoe damage in PvE content in WoW because otherwise they used to die ten seconds into every fight). They might as well do nothing but autoattack. And at that point, they might as well just buff your autoattack and remove them completely. I get the fantasy they're trying to deliver, and honestly it's a pretty badass fantasy. But until they massively improve artificial intelligence in gaming, it's just going to explode in the hangar. Not only that, but in WoW's case, the game just isn't built to be able to deliver any sort of realism, or even just hardcore visuals, for this kind of fantasy.
    Cheerful lack of self-preservation

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Veredyn View Post
    I don't like pets in video games, honestly. They're AI controlled which means they're dumb as shit (cf. all pets being immune to aoe damage in PvE content in WoW because otherwise they used to die ten seconds into every fight). They might as well do nothing but autoattack. And at that point, they might as well just buff your autoattack and remove them completely. I get the fantasy they're trying to deliver, and honestly it's a pretty badass fantasy. But until they massively improve artificial intelligence in gaming, it's just going to explode in the hangar. Not only that, but in WoW's case, the game just isn't built to be able to deliver any sort of realism, or even just hardcore visuals, for this kind of fantasy.
    Couldn't agree more, that's why I'm also totally fine with going petless MM which is what I'll be doing regardless, but having a pet for survival isn't bad. It's unique and it makes sense for the fantasy Blizzard has built for hunters. Sure, the AI in video games like this is awful, but that doesn't take away from the fantasy in my opinion. Either way I'll probably be going MM because the artifact is badass and I love the way it's shaping up, but either way, it fits survival's fantasy, or the new fantasy I should say. I agree with you though on the AI thing, and the realism point as well, but it's a fantasy game, and looking for realism in a fantasy game (as I've learned the hard way) is just going to end in disappointment.

  11. #51
    Deleted
    My version for SV spec :

    [GENERAL]
    - Survivalist : add effect , increase your movement speed by 10% .
    - Wing clip : reduce focus cost of 20 .
    - All traps : Traps no longer share a cooldown them .
    - (all specs)Aspect of the Cheetah and Turtle : reduce cooldown by 30-60sec .
    - (MM/SV) Camouflage : Baseline .

    [ARTIFACT]
    - Blood's call(replace Terms of engagement) : When you use Flanking strike on a target affected by Lacerate , you and your pet gain Frenzy for 6sec . Frenzy = Your Mongoose's bite refreshes the duration of Mongoose fury ans the Frenzy of your pet increases damage by XX% .
    - Wild shell(replace Clipped wings) : While Aspect of the Turtle is active , you heal your and you pet for 5/10/15/20/25/30 % of your maximum health over 8sec .
    - Expert Trapper(replace Eagle's bite) : Your traps now interact with one another:
    Freezing + Explosive - mist covers the area decreasing affected enemies' chance to hit by X%
    Freezing + Tar - freezes the tar, knocking down and immobilizing affected enemies for Ysec, also further chance of knock down
    Explosive + Tar - Create a fire zone immolate those targets that are within and reduced their their movement speed by 50%. Board in the zone refresh the duration of the immolation .
    Explosive + Steel - heated Steel Trap penetrates deeper, but also cauterizes the wound, reducing the duration of Steel Trap's bleed effect by Z%, damage stays the same
    Tar + Steel - targets into Steel Trap wounds, infecting them and decreasing healing taken by A%
    Freezing + Steel : ???

    [TALENTS]
    - Tier 15 :
    *Animal instinct : no change .
    *Mortal wounds : Each time Lacerate deals damage, you have a 2%(5%) chance to gain a charge of Mongoose Bite.
    *Way of the Mok'Nathal : no change .

    - Tier 30 :
    *Posthaste : no change .
    *Farstider : no change .
    *Dash : Reduce the cooldown of the Aspect of the Cheetah by 30sec .

    - Tier 45 :
    *Caltrops : no change .
    *Dragonsfire grenade : no change .
    *Steel trap : no change .

    - Tier 60 :
    *Handicap : When using Wing Clip on a target already affected by this one, the target sees it rooted for 5sec.
    *Ranger's net : no change .
    *Intimidation : 100 yd range
    Instant 45 sec cooldown
    Requires Hunter (Beast Mastery/Survival)
    Commands your pet to intimidate the target, stunning it for 5 sec.

    - Tier 75 :
    *Sticky bomb : no change .
    *Stealth strike : When you perform a technical Camouflage under its range is increase of 12yards .
    *Snake hunter : Instant 1.5 min(45 sec) cooldown
    Requires Hunter (Survival)
    Instantly grants you 3 charges of Mongoose Bite.

    - Tier 90 :
    *Butchery : no change .
    *Throwing axes : no change .
    *Serpent sting :no change .

    - Tier 100 :
    *Sentry turret : Instant 1min cooldown
    Requires Hunter(survival)
    Summon a Sentry turret for 15sec that qhoots at nearby enemies , dealing fire damages .
    *Improved traps : Requires Hunter (Survival)
    All of your traps are improved in the following ways:

    Freezing Trap
    When Freezing Trap's incapacitate effect ends, the victim and all neaby enemies' movement speed is reduced by 50% for 4 sec.

    Explosive Trap
    Increases Explosive Trap's damage over time by 100%.

    Tar Trap
    Enemies moving through the tar have a chance to be rooted in place for 4 sec.

    Steel Trap
    Your Steel Trap also deals an immediate (500% of Attack power) Bleed damage when triggered.
    *Aspect of the beast : no change .

  12. #52
    24/7 mongoose fury at 6 stacks nothing wrong with that.

  13. #53
    The spec looks cool and all, but as I have said before, it's going to be another melee spot. With the launch of Demon Hunter as well, this is going to be two more specs competing for an already limited number of melee spots as no progression group wants to go into the content melee heavy.

    Again, I think it's cool and all, but I don't see that it's going to get representation in the raiding community as it's another melee. Enhancement has had this problem for years, as more people go to Ele as it's ranged and there are far more groups looking to recruit ranged dps.

    Just my two cents, but the comment you almost never hear is "man, we're really ranged dps heavy tonight, we need to drop some ranged classes".
    Last edited by Riistov; 2016-03-21 at 09:20 PM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Baroux View Post
    My version for SV spec :
    Thanks for using my trap ideas and not posting a credit :P

  15. #55
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufix View Post
    Thanks for using my trap ideas and not posting a credit :P
    Sorry, in a hurry to see my ideas quickly post I forgot for this one ^^ "

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Baroux View Post
    Sorry, in a hurry to see my ideas quickly post I forgot for this one ^^ "
    No worries, pretty sure I created these based on 10 other similar posts

  17. #57
    my version of survival would be cataclysm with a proper cd to replace rapid fire.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    Marksmanship can keep up everything without a problem, the only limit to that is player skill. In Survival's case it's a mathematical impossibility to have enough focus to do all the shit on CD.

    Flanking Strike's cost needs to drop, since that's the biggest spender by far.

    You need to Raptor Strike every 15s, 30 focus per 15s or 2 per second.
    Flanking Strike every 5.63 seconds for 50 focus, 8.9 focus per second.
    Laceration every 12 seconds for 35 focus, 2.91 focus per second.
    Throwing Axes every 14.1 seconds for 15 focus, 1.06 focus per second.

    To do all of this, you need like 15 focus per second to play around with. Keep in mind that this is just to JUST about do it, not accounting for any focus you waste (and you will, when doing back-to-back Mongoose Bites) and the fact that you'll pretty much always refresh Serpent Sting and Laceration early. They are Pandemic-affected, but most people are retarded and just use Laceration on cooldown, or use Raptor Strike when they are not supposed to, etc.

    Even worse if you go with Way of the Mok'Nathal. Then Throwing Axes is not a problem, so discount 1 focus per second, but now you need to Raptor Strike every 8 seconds instead for 3.75 focus per second instead of 2.

    You have a passive regen of 10.56, so you're waaaay fucking short. This is with PvP realm levels of Haste btw.
    I'm not sure if you have a youtube channel or a twitch channel, but I've actually been looking for your opinion on marksmanship at the moment. I already have my own (I actually really like the spec, doesn't feel as bad as people make it out to be) but I'm not exactly a professional hunter or anywhere near it, and I can't find you mention anything other than this about MM, so I apologize if this has been asked before, but what's your opinion on MM? And also, did you like sentry turret when it was in for survival, or do you prefer the cobra we have now?

    Edit: Found your youtube channel, going to check out what you have there but I'd still appreciate your input/opinion.
    Last edited by Taeldorian; 2016-03-25 at 06:30 PM.

  19. #59
    This is the Survival thread, so I'll answer your last question. Copypaste your MM questions to the Marksmanship thread.

    Sentry Turret was boring and Cobra is slightly less boring.

    The latter had no interactions with any of your base mechanics, while Cobra does.

    Neither are that great.

  20. #60
    Alright, gonna do that now. I like the idea of a turret, it felt really unique to the spec but if it's mechanically boring then I can see why it was messed with a bit.

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