[Feral] Legion Discussion

[teddabear]

Well if you still want to talk life stories let's look at the builds you and the others have talked about. It is extremely obvious you have tremendously more time than you do money. Maybe you should try and do something about that.

As for WoW, the feral talent tree is pathetic. The ideas are bad, the execution is bad and the balance per tier is a joke.

Artifacts were a bad idea that further restrict choice.

Warforged was a bad idea they have tripled down on with titanforged, extra sockets and extra secondaries.

Legendary execution is horrible. Not even an attempt at balance between the various legendarys. Huge difference between the lucky and unlucky. Whatever attempt they made at bad luck or good luck prevention appears to have worked in reverse.

And to top it off Blizzard doesn't even think there is a problem.

[Tradu]

@Tradu, were you running SR in that mythic dungeon? or SOTF? just curious whats better for m+

I always run the standard raidbuild(LI/SR/JW/BT). I can see SotF or Predator being substituted(not both), but personally I'm just not used to playing with them anymore, and I haven't had a reason to go out of my way to learn them.

- - - Updated - - -

Luffa Wrappings ......

Rake and Rip were my top damage sources by far, Luffas aren't very good except on low M+ levels where you pull the entire planet. They do nothing on anything from like +7 and up, because you generally can't pull big piles of mobs without getting horribly murdered.

As you can tell, Thrash did barely anything. So please, tell me more about how that awful legendary(to the point where I need to unequip it in some dungeons in favor of 30 ilevel lower bracers, just because the extra range is more detrimental than helpful) contributed anything. The main use for Thrash is the cost reduction on Swipe anyway, not the actual damage(which the Thrash damage bonus doesn't help with, and neither does the range increase considering Balance Affinity already makes it hit a huge area)

- - - Updated - - -

Well if you still want to talk life stories let's look at the builds you and the others have talked about. It is extremely obvious you have tremendously more time than you do money. Maybe you should try and do something about that.

As for WoW, the feral talent tree is pathetic. The ideas are bad, the execution is bad and the balance per tier is a joke.

Artifacts were a bad idea that further restrict choice.

Warforged was a bad idea they have tripled down on with titanforged, extra sockets and extra secondaries.

Legendary execution is horrible. Not even an attempt at balance between the various legendarys. Huge difference between the lucky and unlucky. Whatever attempt they made at bad luck or good luck prevention appears to have worked in reverse.

And to top it off Blizzard doesn't even think there is a problem.

I know this sounds insane, but I agree with every single one of those points except the first. The talent tree has some good talents(every part of the raid build, Incarnation, SotF, Brutal Slash, Elune's Grace) and some absolutely awful ones(MoC and Sabertooth, the Affinity row, Renewal), the balance in the JW row is awful(luckily), but at least we have a strong build, which is more than a lot of other classes can claim.

[teddabear]

I do not believe it is helpful to minimize the issues with Feral. They may be very good at one thing, but for people on the fence they need to fully understand what they are getting into.

It would not be difficult to fix the talent to a substantial extent, but there is no indication Blizzard is going to. They even made another statement recently that they are still fine with niche specs.

They also stated they are still happy with Legendaries when they should be trying to make them at least semi-balanced. And whatever form of bad luck/good prevention they implemented should be increased exponentially. They also need to increase the drop rate to compensate for the people that have already gotten multiple Legendaries due to the bug. They very first Mythic+ I did one player got 2 Legendary's from the same chest. It also hurts every player that enjoys multiple specs and/or classes.

Between Artifacts and Legendaries Blizzard has pigeonholed every player into once spec. The further into the expansion you get the more you will be pigeonholed. At some point into the expansion the Artifact will be less of a problem but by that time Legendaries will restrict you even more than the Artifact did.

[Tradu]

I do not believe it is helpful to minimize the issues with Feral. They may be very good at one thing, but for people on the fence they need to fully understand what they are getting into.

It would not be difficult to fix the talent to a substantial extent, but there is no indication Blizzard is going to. They even made another statement recently that they are still fine with niche specs.

They also stated they are still happy with Legendaries when they should be trying to make them at least semi-balanced. And whatever form of bad luck/good prevention they implemented should be increased exponentially. They also need to increase the drop rate to compensate for the people that have already gotten multiple Legendaries due to the bug. They very first Mythic+ I did one player got 2 Legendary's from the same chest. It also hurts every player that enjoys multiple specs and/or classes.

Between Artifacts and Legendaries Blizzard has pigeonholed every player into once spec. The further into the expansion you get the more you will be pigeonholed. At some point into the expansion the Artifact will be less of a problem but by that time Legendaries will restrict you even more than the Artifact did.

The important thing is to note that currently, Feral's strength on ST/low target sustained damage easily makes up for deficiencies in other areas.

[teddabear]

That is an opinion that may not be shared by many players and is not shared shared by PUGS.

With the way this expansion was designed once you choose a spec you are pretty much stuck with it.

In addition Blizzard has been known to nerf Feral single target to mediocrity even when it's all they bring to the table.

[Lucrece]

Well if you still want to talk life stories let's look at the builds you and the others have talked about. It is extremely obvious you have tremendously more time than you do money. Maybe you should try and do something about that.

As for WoW, the feral talent tree is pathetic. The ideas are bad, the execution is bad and the balance per tier is a joke.

Artifacts were a bad idea that further restrict choice.

Warforged was a bad idea they have tripled down on with titanforged, extra sockets and extra secondaries.

Legendary execution is horrible. Not even an attempt at balance between the various legendarys. Huge difference between the lucky and unlucky. Whatever attempt they made at bad luck or good luck prevention appears to have worked in reverse.

And to top it off Blizzard doesn't even think there is a problem.

lol, me wanting to not overpay for a graphics card whose benefits I won't enjoy is not indicative of lack of money any more than my refusal to buy Windows 10 Pro over the Home version indicates lack of money. Why pay for features you won't use. Being efficient with your expenses is actually something people with money do, and quite frankly if I were to take financial advise it wouldn't be from someone as touched as you are.

[Traxwow]

lol, me wanting to not overpay for a graphics card whose benefits I won't enjoy is not indicative of lack of money any more than my refusal to buy Windows 10 Pro over the Home version indicates lack of money. Why pay for features you won't use. Being efficient with your expenses is actually something people with money do, and quite frankly if I were to take financial advise it wouldn't be from someone as touched as you are.

That's probably the worst example. You should really research the difference between w10 pro and w10 home. Talking about being efficient with expenses, but you don't understand that getting the pro version is like an insurance policy. Just because you don't use the extra features at the time doesn't mean you won't use them in the future. What happens if Microsoft were to push an update you didn't agree with?

[Lucrece]

That's probably the worst example. You should really research the difference between w10 pro and w10 home. Talking about being efficient with expenses, but you don't understand that getting the pro version is like an insurance policy. Just because you don't use the extra features at the time doesn't mean you won't use them in the future. What happens if Microsoft were to push an update you didn't agree with?

I won't use them in the future. I have no intention of using my computer for anything else other than videogames. My personal one is a surface pro which fulfills the simple needs I use computers for outside videogames, and that's mostly just for personal notes or recording lectures outside the simple web browsing for med school. I'm not going to be in a scenario where encryption or remote control among other such features will ever be worth the extra price tag for me.

[Rhineheart]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to chime in a bit regarding discussion with Teddabear.

It's true that he's fairly negative about feral balance, but there some truth to what he says in terms of being godlike in ST is not as always useful in specific cases. One specific case is that if you're not a raider or a social in a guild that is willing on taking you to high mythic+ run. its tough to do any high level content. I'm not saying ferals can't pull their on weight in mythic content, but the perception of feral the past few expansions has not been in the best light (In terms of PvE).

I've been playing a feral druid since Wotlk (Druid since vanilla), and became a casual in cata. Ever since MOP, I've had to change specs to resto for Challenge mode dungeons (unless I'm in a guild group) or join mythic pug raids. Even though ferals kind of performed fine in SOO, I've been declined countless pug raids because I'm a feral. WoD was extremely horrible, to the extent that I had to always play any spec that isn't feral, if I wanted to complete any challenge mode or mythic pug raids. I really love playing my druid, but sitting hours each day trying to find groups willing to take a feral was very disheartening.

It's been mentioned that if your not a hardcore player, then play what ever spec you want but in reality there are consequences for wanting to play a spec you enjoy.

Nevertheless I also want to thank any feral that stuck with the spec and is trying to positively find the optimal way to dps and help others. Maybe there needs to be another push from the community to bring these issues to light again, similar to how fury warriors are being mentioned by blues right now.

[Deleted]

Hey guys,
I'm not saying ferals can't pull their on weight in mythic content, but the perception of feral the past few expansions has not been in the best light (In terms of PvE).

I've been playing a feral druid since Wotlk (Druid since vanilla), and became a casual in cata. Ever since MOP, I've had to change specs to resto for Challenge mode dungeons (unless I'm in a guild group) or join mythic pug raids. Even though ferals kind of performed fine in SOO, I've been declined countless pug raids because I'm a feral. WoD was extremely horrible, to the extent that I had to always play any spec that isn't feral, if I wanted to complete any challenge mode or mythic pug raids. I really love playing my druid, but sitting hours each day trying to find groups willing to take a feral was very disheartening.

retards like tedda are why this is a problem, Morons who are awful at the class and have decided that this is the classes fault, and so flock to forums like this to bitch about hurrdurr feral nonviable, feral awful in m+, thus resulting in the current perspective.

[Rhineheart]

retards like tedda are why this is a problem, Morons who are awful at the class and have decided that this is the classes fault, and so flock to forums like this to bitch about hurrdurr feral nonviable, feral awful in m+, thus resulting in the current perspective.

While I agree that his negativity makes it worse for social ferals, it doesn't change the fact that there are too many people that have a negative perspective because of the overall performance of ferals in mythic+ and mythic raids. The other day I was discussing this with a friend and he kept linking me feral logs (In mythic raids and mythic+) and comparing them to most other specs. His reasoning was overall they output less dps in general (Excluding pure ST fights).

Maybe the feral community would be able to counter this negative momentum by streaming or uploading more YouTube videos of tougher PvE content being completed with feral druids in the picture. :P

[Wolfheart9]

retards like tedda are why this is a problem, Morons who are awful at the class and have decided that this is the classes fault, and so flock to forums like this to bitch about hurrdurr feral nonviable, feral awful in m+, thus resulting in the current perspective.

Can we stop with the childish insults? Please?

As Rhineheart said things are being blown out of proportion, but it's equally bad to put your fingers in your ears and go 'Lalala feral is fine'. We have great ST damage. Neat. There are other specs that have just as good or damned close ST, that also have good AoE, and also have better CC. If a class can near match us in single target damage, while beating us in AoE damage, and providing useful CC, does that not, by definition, make us outclassed? Feral is in no way a broken spec as it stands right now due to our raw ST damage, but a class should have more than that, as others do.

[-aiko-]

Can we stop with the childish insults? Please?.

Given his post history I'd say it's unlikely

I did a +10 Vault last night (ew) with a WW monk and Enh Shaman. I absolutely pulled my weight damage-wise, especially since we kept it to smaller pulls, and destroyed bosses but.... Monk's Leg Sweep/FoF made it easy for the tank to drop stacks, and the Shaman also ran Earthgrab. In comparison I had...well...Mighty Bash? Yay? That's what we're mostly complaining about. Feral is not broken or useless, we're just outclassed. We also require a certain talent setup to do that good damage and have a few useless talent tiers. We need some work.

[Wolfheart9]

Given his post history I'd say it's unlikely

I did a +10 Vault last night (ew) with a WW monk and Enh Shaman. I absolutely pulled my weight damage-wise, especially since we kept it to smaller pulls, and destroyed bosses but.... Monk's Leg Sweep/FoF made it easy for the tank to drop stacks, and the Shaman also ran Earthgrab. In comparison I had...well...Mighty Bash? Yay? That's what we're mostly complaining about. Feral is not broken or useless, we're just outclassed. We also require a certain talent setup to do that good damage and have a few useless talent tiers. We need some work.

Pretty much that, yea. I can pull my own weight on bosses, but I'm only a bit ahead of those monks and the likes that are destroying the AoE pulls, and providing more utility than I can. If Feral was a solid 15%+ above anyone else in single target fine, but we're not.

The talent issue is also a huge problem. It's pretty much 'Use this cookie cutter build or go home', which is something no class should have.

[Lucrece]

Feral is way above single target compared to havoc demonhunter, an aoe spec. Feral is definitely ahead of windwalker as well in single target by a considerable amount.

he only classes that should be touching a feral single target are shadow priest, assassination rogue, demo warlock and arms warrior. In a short enough fight marksman hunter or fire mage might also be up there, but at higher keystones only those classes I mentioned before perform as well in single target.

And neither arms warriors, assassination rogues, or demo warlocks have remotely good aoe; they're quite terrible at it.

Shadow priest are just broken.

[-aiko-]

It really does depend on the keystone level, though. Our dps cooldowns don't give us as much burst as most other classes so on shorter boss fights we can definitely still lose. I also tend to take SotF over SR for M+ so that 25% hurts ST.

[Lucrece]

It really does depend on the keystone level, though. Our dps cooldowns don't give us as much burst as most other classes so on shorter boss fights we can definitely still lose. I also tend to take SotF over SR for M+ so that 25% hurts ST.

Oh, yeah, but I'm assuming most people by now are getting to their weekly M+ 8-10 clears, at which point mobs are living long enough.

[teddabear]

retards like tedda are why this is a problem, Morons who are awful at the class and have decided that this is the classes fault, and so flock to forums like this to bitch about hurrdurr feral nonviable, feral awful in m+, thus resulting in the current perspective.

Well luckily they have you to pick up the slack from all the great Ferals that have abandoned the spec, that created and maintained all the Feral addons. Which ones are you working one?

Yes it's my fault nobody plays Feral.

25 man Heroic Lei Shen
Mage - 16.78%
Warlock - 15.59%
Hunter - 12.12%
Rogue - 11.21%
Feral - 01.30%

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...3#post22128013

[Miff]

Well luckily they have you to pick up the slack from all the great Ferals that have abandoned the spec, that created and maintained all the Feral addons. Which ones are you working one?

Yes it's my fault nobody plays Feral.

25 man Heroic Lei Shen
Mage - 16.78%
Warlock - 15.59%
Hunter - 12.12%
Rogue - 11.21%
Feral - 01.30%

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...3#post22128013

Can you please stop littering this thread with your comments? If feral is such an issue for you, please stop playing and let real discussion happen that isn't said everywhere else. We all know our AOE is meh, we all know our ST is sexy... and we all have pretty much the same opinion on the issue

What i believe the main issue is, is the skill gap between a good player and a shitter. unlike mages/hunters/etc where you can roll your face over the keyboard, ferals require a lot more skill to play well. we have to maintain buffs/dots/energy/snap-shotting/pooling and combo points and if we stuff up, it really hurts us. Our talent choices also can make a large difference in our dps depending on the encounter. within pugs, you're more than likely not going to get 80 percentile mythic raiders... you're going to get the people doing heroic or even less. If you see a 865 fire mage and a 865 feral druid, 99% of the time the mage will get picked due to their perceived damage output as fuck, they have a dick load of passive cleave without changing much in their rotation and other great utility. I know my comparison isn't really ideal, but it still exists with monks/rogues/insert any other dps other than gimped shit.

[teddabear]

Representation has gone up or down depending how good a spec is since this game started.

Warlocks have gone from 4-6 per raid in MoP to trying to get even one in your raid so you can summon.
Shadow Priest and Enhancement Shaman rep has skyrocketed this expansion.

Blizzard's inability to balance specs even resulted in a new word being added to the English language. Sunwelled.

I will remind everybody again it is dangerous to assume Feral single target will go untouched, especially if Mages or Rogues start complaining. If there is no demand for a talent tree rework they will just nerf single target to the ground and throw in something like a 5% Thrash buff.