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  1. #1641
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellshout View Post
    But not based on BT please. The whole reason I didn't play Feral until MoC buff is because I didn't trust myself enough to invest into Feral only to fail miserably.
    Granted, the gameplay is a little inconsistent. I'm either energy capped for a long time or can extend TF all the way to infinity or I'm starved for like 20+ seconds until TF comes up, not even a crit, not a MoC, nothing...
    We got a new feral in the guild and everyone was making fuss who's gonna be win in dps master race. I lost of course(we wiped though so I had another shot) by 50 mill. But I lost like a brand new feral, he got 30 mill more out of FBs(5 more crits on that regard). I didn't get 1 free FB way until 65%....
    And then there are the good times where I just proc and proc and proc and I'm number 1 universe wide and then we wipe ))
    Honestly BT was what made feral for me it just feels wrong to play without it to the point that I still spam precast RG before pulls out of muscle memory.
    The core concept of BT isn't that hard but it was the pooling and gameplay to ensure that you got to 4/5 cp before PS ran out that made it challenging to play, currently in the frame of mind that a longer duration on PS would have made it significantly more forgiving.

    And yeh it was pretty great when our damage didn't have a big rng factor in it like the current 4set / moc, right now if you want a good parse you basically need to get FB proccs during your incarn tf or it's going to go to bin.

    As far as your energy starving issue, its worth checking if chatoyant (instead of sota) + li sims higher for you, it evens out a lot of the rng on MoC and gives you a big energy pool to play with, which also means less wasted energy from AE. Its a build that is performing really well for many ferals though it has a little bit less rng swing due to not having the extra bite damage on proccs.
    Feral Meme machine

  2. #1642
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanzha View Post
    Honestly BT was what made feral for me it just feels wrong to play without it to the point that I still spam precast RG before pulls out of muscle memory.
    The core concept of BT isn't that hard but it was the pooling and gameplay to ensure that you got to 4/5 cp before PS ran out that made it challenging to play, currently in the frame of mind that a longer duration on PS would have made it significantly more forgiving.

    And yeh it was pretty great when our damage didn't have a big rng factor in it like the current 4set / moc, right now if you want a good parse you basically need to get FB proccs during your incarn tf or it's going to go to bin.

    As far as your energy starving issue, its worth checking if chatoyant (instead of sota) + li sims higher for you, it evens out a lot of the rng on MoC and gives you a big energy pool to play with, which also means less wasted energy from AE. Its a build that is performing really well for many ferals though it has a little bit less rng swing due to not having the extra bite damage on proccs.
    Mad respect for those that were good back in the days. I'd still be up to try it even today, but my problem with it was that the punishment for missing a BT was way too big for the skill you needed to play it perfectly...
    I do play LI and until yesterday Chato. But last night Cinidaria simmed higher by 10k than Chato and I tried it, but like I said, I hit a bad streak and I felt useless, I was at the mercy of RNG. So I went back to Chato, because Cini might give 10k extra, but if the procs are not there, or if you don't get Apex in the first 10%, then the gap closes in.
    Interestingly, ShadowSing 960 <<<<< Scourge 930, which was a shame tbh, really hoped for an upgrade since Varimathras is a bitch when it comes to loot.
    KJ HC 1% left, tanks dead, half raid dead. Boss targets hunter.

    Whole raid screaming "TURTLE!! TURTLE!!"
    [email protected] in a casual russian accent "Don't worry, don't worry, Nekita is here"

    Small silence and whole raid laughs so hard )

  3. #1643
    I have read the wowhead guide to feral BiS and it states that chato gets better at 'high ilvl' compared to SoTA. What exactly constitutes as 'high ilvl?' I should mention that I already have every feral legendary, so it's more a question of whether to pair Behemoth with chato, or behemoth with SoTA.

  4. #1644
    SoTA is worse the luckier you get, t21 4set procs, tigers fury on cooldown(instantly followed by finishing move for helm), moment of clarity and SoTA all combine to force overcap and wastes energy regularly vs Chato giving you that bigger pool to use.
    Last edited by axxey; 2018-02-15 at 11:34 PM.

  5. #1645
    Quote Originally Posted by axxey View Post
    SoTA is worse the luckier you get, t21 4set procs, tigers fury on cooldown(instantly followed by finishing move for helm), moment of clarity and SoTA all combine to force overcap and wastes energy regularly vs Chato giving you that bigger pool to use.
    No, just no. SoTA wants good rng more because of the increased damage on finishers, overcapping energy from soul proccs is no big deal, though it might feel wierd / wrong. Check it yourself if you want to, simming the two against each other you'll see a much larger variation in dps from SoTA whereas chato tends to be more consistent.

    500k iteration sim - As you can see Chato performs better more reliably but SoTA can push way higher on god tier proccs.


    As far as which is best for your gear, Sim it.
    Last edited by Zanzha; 2018-02-16 at 11:23 PM.
    Feral Meme machine

  6. #1646
    Yes, just yes.
    More consistant(which you say yourself) and reliability pushes chato performance in practice closer to sims for most people.

    Variation in sim dps doesn't also take into account variation in reaction, the more occasions there are that push decisions together the more opportunities for human errors to not maximize performance. (if you don't sometimes shred at 5 combo points from procs you're a better man than me)

    These particular items I'd have to say are some of the absolute worse to say "best for you, sim it". How they play, gameplay and performance for different individuals is nothing like their sims.

  7. #1647
    Ok I think you are misunderstanding what I had a problem with here. I am not saying don't use Chato, I have been using Chato primarily myself for progress.

    Given very good RNG on proccs from T21, SoTA is almost always going to outperform Chato. It does not get worse with good proccs from T21 as you are claiming, which is demonstrably incorrect, you can clearly see that on the sim. SoTA while on average behind, when given good RNG stomps all over Chato.

    Again, not saying don't use Chato, not saying Chato is worse. Just Saying that your comment about good RNG with Sota is misinformed.

    -----------------

    I agree that in practice not everything plays out as it is on paper and when being asked at what point does Chato beat SoTA, the answer isn't always super clear, and the only way to get a definitive answer as to whether it is worth considering chato at whatever ilvl you have is via simming.

    At lower levels of gear it is quite considerably behind, which you will be able to see clearly from sims. But once it comes within a few percent give or take of SoTA then it's worth considering based on personal preference, if your gear is hot garbage for Chato it will show and it isn't worth using irregardless of your personal "playstyle".



    Here's a quick sim of a friend of mine with about average heroic gear, as you can see chato is behind on average while sota is ahead, as well as having much better performance with good rng.

    Depending on how your gear is weighted one might be better than the other, Chato + li for example increases the value of any haste on your gear, whilst SoTA prefers crit. The reason for saying sim it, is that these secondary weights play a huge part, It's possible to give an arbitrary point of say around 970 ilvl where chato starts to pull ahead, but it really is entirely arbitrary and might not even be true in some cases depending on your weights.

    Hence why I'm saying sim it, not because it'll definitively tell you which one to use but it will allow you to make that informed decision for yourself.
    Feral Meme machine

  8. #1648
    Ashamane's Rip. Is it worth to worry about it and try to get max. benefit out of it? Is there any way to max. it even? Or I simply forget about it and consider it a small dps increase based on RNG.

  9. #1649
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    It's going to be RNG but I think it's worth tracking, as you can sort of 'game' it a little bit. Pool energy before re-applying Rip, then right after you apply Rip use your energy builders to try and proc a longer duration Ashamane's Rip. Pooling is already good practice so it doesn't take too much additional thought. I just set up a basic TMW to track the duration of Ashamane's Rip (use a weakaura if that is more your thing).
    Last edited by -aiko-; 2018-02-19 at 10:33 PM.

  10. #1650
    This by far has been the most fun Feral has felt in a while. SR+BT snapshots ca go diaf for all I care, feral felt like the melee old school affliction lock and honestly I never cared for that shitty, unintuitive playstyle.

    I much prefer models like subtlety rogue in terms of adding complexity to a rotation over playing the UI game to math for me which combination of boosts made renewing my bleeds worthwhile and removed all possibility of burst because in order for bleeds to be strong, ferocious bite and shred had to be weak.

    I'd much rather have useful strong direct damage over the crappy dot system that only works on long lived adds and because we're an energy based class we don't even get to abuse the nature of dots like dot based casters can, at best we can cleave.

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