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  1. #1641
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellshout View Post
    But not based on BT please. The whole reason I didn't play Feral until MoC buff is because I didn't trust myself enough to invest into Feral only to fail miserably.
    Granted, the gameplay is a little inconsistent. I'm either energy capped for a long time or can extend TF all the way to infinity or I'm starved for like 20+ seconds until TF comes up, not even a crit, not a MoC, nothing...
    We got a new feral in the guild and everyone was making fuss who's gonna be win in dps master race. I lost of course(we wiped though so I had another shot) by 50 mill. But I lost like a brand new feral, he got 30 mill more out of FBs(5 more crits on that regard). I didn't get 1 free FB way until 65%....
    And then there are the good times where I just proc and proc and proc and I'm number 1 universe wide and then we wipe ))
    Honestly BT was what made feral for me it just feels wrong to play without it to the point that I still spam precast RG before pulls out of muscle memory.
    The core concept of BT isn't that hard but it was the pooling and gameplay to ensure that you got to 4/5 cp before PS ran out that made it challenging to play, currently in the frame of mind that a longer duration on PS would have made it significantly more forgiving.

    And yeh it was pretty great when our damage didn't have a big rng factor in it like the current 4set / moc, right now if you want a good parse you basically need to get FB proccs during your incarn tf or it's going to go to bin.

    As far as your energy starving issue, its worth checking if chatoyant (instead of sota) + li sims higher for you, it evens out a lot of the rng on MoC and gives you a big energy pool to play with, which also means less wasted energy from AE. Its a build that is performing really well for many ferals though it has a little bit less rng swing due to not having the extra bite damage on proccs.
    Feral Meme machine

  2. #1642
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanzha View Post
    Honestly BT was what made feral for me it just feels wrong to play without it to the point that I still spam precast RG before pulls out of muscle memory.
    The core concept of BT isn't that hard but it was the pooling and gameplay to ensure that you got to 4/5 cp before PS ran out that made it challenging to play, currently in the frame of mind that a longer duration on PS would have made it significantly more forgiving.

    And yeh it was pretty great when our damage didn't have a big rng factor in it like the current 4set / moc, right now if you want a good parse you basically need to get FB proccs during your incarn tf or it's going to go to bin.

    As far as your energy starving issue, its worth checking if chatoyant (instead of sota) + li sims higher for you, it evens out a lot of the rng on MoC and gives you a big energy pool to play with, which also means less wasted energy from AE. Its a build that is performing really well for many ferals though it has a little bit less rng swing due to not having the extra bite damage on proccs.
    Mad respect for those that were good back in the days. I'd still be up to try it even today, but my problem with it was that the punishment for missing a BT was way too big for the skill you needed to play it perfectly...
    I do play LI and until yesterday Chato. But last night Cinidaria simmed higher by 10k than Chato and I tried it, but like I said, I hit a bad streak and I felt useless, I was at the mercy of RNG. So I went back to Chato, because Cini might give 10k extra, but if the procs are not there, or if you don't get Apex in the first 10%, then the gap closes in.
    Interestingly, ShadowSing 960 <<<<< Scourge 930, which was a shame tbh, really hoped for an upgrade since Varimathras is a bitch when it comes to loot.
    KJ HC 1% left, tanks dead, half raid dead. Boss targets hunter.

    Whole raid screaming "TURTLE!! TURTLE!!"
    [email protected] in a casual russian accent "Don't worry, don't worry, Nekita is here"

    Small silence and whole raid laughs so hard )

  3. #1643
    I have read the wowhead guide to feral BiS and it states that chato gets better at 'high ilvl' compared to SoTA. What exactly constitutes as 'high ilvl?' I should mention that I already have every feral legendary, so it's more a question of whether to pair Behemoth with chato, or behemoth with SoTA.

  4. #1644
    SoTA is worse the luckier you get, t21 4set procs, tigers fury on cooldown(instantly followed by finishing move for helm), moment of clarity and SoTA all combine to force overcap and wastes energy regularly vs Chato giving you that bigger pool to use.
    Last edited by axxey; 2018-02-15 at 11:34 PM.

  5. #1645
    Quote Originally Posted by axxey View Post
    SoTA is worse the luckier you get, t21 4set procs, tigers fury on cooldown(instantly followed by finishing move for helm), moment of clarity and SoTA all combine to force overcap and wastes energy regularly vs Chato giving you that bigger pool to use.
    No, just no. SoTA wants good rng more because of the increased damage on finishers, overcapping energy from soul proccs is no big deal, though it might feel wierd / wrong. Check it yourself if you want to, simming the two against each other you'll see a much larger variation in dps from SoTA whereas chato tends to be more consistent.

    500k iteration sim - As you can see Chato performs better more reliably but SoTA can push way higher on god tier proccs.


    As far as which is best for your gear, Sim it.
    Last edited by Zanzha; 2018-02-16 at 11:23 PM.
    Feral Meme machine

  6. #1646
    Yes, just yes.
    More consistant(which you say yourself) and reliability pushes chato performance in practice closer to sims for most people.

    Variation in sim dps doesn't also take into account variation in reaction, the more occasions there are that push decisions together the more opportunities for human errors to not maximize performance. (if you don't sometimes shred at 5 combo points from procs you're a better man than me)

    These particular items I'd have to say are some of the absolute worse to say "best for you, sim it". How they play, gameplay and performance for different individuals is nothing like their sims.

  7. #1647
    Ok I think you are misunderstanding what I had a problem with here. I am not saying don't use Chato, I have been using Chato primarily myself for progress.

    Given very good RNG on proccs from T21, SoTA is almost always going to outperform Chato. It does not get worse with good proccs from T21 as you are claiming, which is demonstrably incorrect, you can clearly see that on the sim. SoTA while on average behind, when given good RNG stomps all over Chato.

    Again, not saying don't use Chato, not saying Chato is worse. Just Saying that your comment about good RNG with Sota is misinformed.

    -----------------

    I agree that in practice not everything plays out as it is on paper and when being asked at what point does Chato beat SoTA, the answer isn't always super clear, and the only way to get a definitive answer as to whether it is worth considering chato at whatever ilvl you have is via simming.

    At lower levels of gear it is quite considerably behind, which you will be able to see clearly from sims. But once it comes within a few percent give or take of SoTA then it's worth considering based on personal preference, if your gear is hot garbage for Chato it will show and it isn't worth using irregardless of your personal "playstyle".



    Here's a quick sim of a friend of mine with about average heroic gear, as you can see chato is behind on average while sota is ahead, as well as having much better performance with good rng.

    Depending on how your gear is weighted one might be better than the other, Chato + li for example increases the value of any haste on your gear, whilst SoTA prefers crit. The reason for saying sim it, is that these secondary weights play a huge part, It's possible to give an arbitrary point of say around 970 ilvl where chato starts to pull ahead, but it really is entirely arbitrary and might not even be true in some cases depending on your weights.

    Hence why I'm saying sim it, not because it'll definitively tell you which one to use but it will allow you to make that informed decision for yourself.
    Feral Meme machine

  8. #1648
    Ashamane's Rip. Is it worth to worry about it and try to get max. benefit out of it? Is there any way to max. it even? Or I simply forget about it and consider it a small dps increase based on RNG.

  9. #1649
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    It's going to be RNG but I think it's worth tracking, as you can sort of 'game' it a little bit. Pool energy before re-applying Rip, then right after you apply Rip use your energy builders to try and proc a longer duration Ashamane's Rip. Pooling is already good practice so it doesn't take too much additional thought. I just set up a basic TMW to track the duration of Ashamane's Rip (use a weakaura if that is more your thing).
    Last edited by -aiko-; 2018-02-19 at 10:33 PM.

  10. #1650
    This by far has been the most fun Feral has felt in a while. SR+BT snapshots ca go diaf for all I care, feral felt like the melee old school affliction lock and honestly I never cared for that shitty, unintuitive playstyle.

    I much prefer models like subtlety rogue in terms of adding complexity to a rotation over playing the UI game to math for me which combination of boosts made renewing my bleeds worthwhile and removed all possibility of burst because in order for bleeds to be strong, ferocious bite and shred had to be weak.

    I'd much rather have useful strong direct damage over the crappy dot system that only works on long lived adds and because we're an energy based class we don't even get to abuse the nature of dots like dot based casters can, at best we can cleave.

  11. #1651
    To me the new playstyle is the worst what happened to me playing WoW. I really dislike it, but to each his own, I guess.

  12. #1652
    I decide to start playing/raiding wow again after a while and chose a feral druid for now and bfa, my guild is super helpful and try to gear me as fast as possible so i fell i need to do my best when it come to play as best as i can, after reading/watching X number of guides i realize while most are the same some people have different play style which confuse me

    What confuse me is Tiger fury window

    Some say refresh dots with tiger fury no matter the duration your current dots have, IS this accurate?

    It worth to let RIP dot expire for few seconds so you can use it in Tiger fury window? what about the artefact ability? how many seconds its worth to delay for tiger fury?

  13. #1653
    High Overlord Rockford's Avatar
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    It really helps if you have a weakaura for tracking the strength of your Rip.

    https://wago.io/Syz8eBzY-

    This shows how powerful your current potential bleed is compared to what's on the target. If it shows as green, and a number above 100, re-apply. If it's in the red <100 let it run. Though always make sure you're increasing the snapshot when available. Always Rip at 5CP without letting it drop as unlike rogue, the lower CP bleeds are weaker.

  14. #1654
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelix1 View Post
    I decide to start playing/raiding wow again after a while and chose a feral druid for now and bfa, my guild is super helpful and try to gear me as fast as possible so i fell i need to do my best when it come to play as best as i can, after reading/watching X number of guides i realize while most are the same some people have different play style which confuse me

    What confuse me is Tiger fury window

    Some say refresh dots with tiger fury no matter the duration your current dots have, IS this accurate?

    It worth to let RIP dot expire for few seconds so you can use it in Tiger fury window? what about the artefact ability? how many seconds its worth to delay for tiger fury?
    Rip with T21 is very strong.
    1- open wounds artifact 15% armor ignore for your direct damage
    2- T21 x 2pc (extra damage from rip)
    3- T21 x 4c procs (When Rip deals damage, you have a 4% chance to cause your next Ferocious Bite to consume no Combo Points and count as if you spent the maximum amount of Energy)
    4- For Ashamane's Rip procs (Your combo point generators against targets bleeding from your Rip have a 10% chance to awaken the Spirit of Ashamane, which inflicts a Shadowy duplicate of that Rip on the target.)

    So even if TF is coming up lets say 5 seconds later, you should rip even with 2 cp. Its not the damage here but the debuff that gives you all above (possible)benefits. And yes given the chance in TF window make a 5CP rip within pandemic so you will have a max damage max duration rip until next TF window.

    Rake and Rip must be maintained at all costs more so rip, and given the chance their high damage snapshot versions must be used.

    Regarding Artefact Ability, its best to use it right after a TF or with at least 2-3 seconds of TF on target if you have the Head legendary which will extend the duration of the TF until AF buff runs out. If TF is on cooldown you can wait until next TF. CD on Ashamane's Frenzy is 1,25 seconds and is rigid. Does not get modified by any other ability. So you know how many times you can use it in a given fight. As long as delaying it does not deny your max. total AF in a duration, you can a-wait for the TF window. i.e if the fight allows you for 3 AF, and delaying one will deny you the opportunity to use the third one, do not delay it (short fights generally like M+ etc) It also gives a %30 damage increase for 6 seconds so you will want to enter AF phase with rake and rip on target (Moonfire and Savage roar as well if talented) and try to do as much direct damage as possible within TF+AF window. This usually means 1 shred + FB and 2 shred + FB Replace shred with Brutal Slash if talented. It will run like this
    Rip+Rake+MF on target
    savage roar on me
    TF
    AF (gives 3 cp)
    Shred(1 or 2 CP) + FB
    Shred>Shred>FB
    At this point with lag and everything the AF buff duration will finish.
    Last edited by silkworm; 2018-04-12 at 10:13 AM.

  15. #1655
    Quote Originally Posted by silkworm View Post
    Rip with T21 is very strong.
    1- open wounds artifact 15% armor ignore for your direct damage
    2- T21 x 2pc (extra damage from rip)
    3- T21 x 4c procs (When Rip deals damage, you have a 4% chance to cause your next Ferocious Bite to consume no Combo Points and count as if you spent the maximum amount of Energy)
    4- For Ashamane's Rip procs (Your combo point generators against targets bleeding from your Rip have a 10% chance to awaken the Spirit of Ashamane, which inflicts a Shadowy duplicate of that Rip on the target.)

    So even if TF is coming up lets say 5 seconds later, you should rip even with 2 cp. Its not the damage here but the debuff that gives you all above (possible)benefits. And yes given the chance in TF window make a 5CP rip within pandemic so you will have a max damage max duration rip until next TF window.

    Rake and Rip must be maintained at all costs more so rip, and given the chance their high damage snapshot versions must be used.

    Regarding Artefact Ability, its best to use it right after a TF . If TF is on cooldown you can wait until next TF. CD on Ashamane's Frenzy is 1,25 seconds and is rigid. Does not get modified by any other ability. So you know how many times you can use it in a given fight. As long as delaying it does not deny your max. total AF in a duration, you can a-wait for the TF window. i.e if the fight allows you for 3 AF, and delaying one will deny you the opportunity to use the third one, do not delay it (short fights generally like M+ etc) It also gives a %30 damage increase for 6 seconds so you will want to enter AF phase with rake and rip on target (Moonfire if talented) and try to do as much direct damage as possible within TF+AF window. This usually means 2 shred + FB, 2 shred + FB Replace shred with Brutal Slash if talented. It will run like this
    Rip+Rake+MF on target
    check if I have savage roar
    TF
    AF (gives 3 cp)
    Shred(1 or 2 CP) + FB
    Shred>Shred>FB
    At this point with lag and everything the AF buff duration will finish.
    Thank you very much, at this point i need all the advice i can get, i didnt raid serious in a very very long time and its no surprise how rusty im, at the moment i dont have any set bonus only 945 items

    One more thing if its possible, do you know where i can find a proper WA, the ones i find are quite old

    I GOT my first legendary today (the head) and oh boy it make the rotation so much better for me, the stress of timing TF with my dots went away (im so sad its not the best legendary for AOE and ST)
    Last edited by kaelix1; 2018-04-12 at 02:24 PM.

  16. #1656
    I use Robosaurus weak auras here https://roboferal.wordpress.com/weakauras/
    I removed some of them that I have custom ones or that I don't use much. Also his blog is very informative for in depth feral. Eventually you will have T21 so start practicing to keep Rip and Rake at all times. Until then your best bet is to use any high ilvl gear and as much crit as possible.

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