1. #37441
    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    I'll give you an example on why that's not actually true.

    Me and some other ppl say: We prefere apples to pears because they are sweeter.
    You and lots of other folks: Nah that's just nostalgia.

    When you understand this and why this then originates extremes in the discussion we'll be good.
    Why not point out some quotes of Eleccybubb answering someone with 'No that is just nostalgia' or something along those lines. Don't worry we'll wait while you try to find some.

  2. #37442
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    Why not point out some quotes of Eleccybubb answering someone with 'No that is just nostalgia' or something along those lines. Don't worry we'll wait while you try to find some.
    So i guess why i said apparently was to literal and hard to understand. My fault i guess.

  3. #37443
    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    I'll give you an example on why that's not actually true.

    Me and some other ppl say: We prefere apples to pears because they are sweeter.
    You and lots of other folks: Nah that's just nostalgia.

    When you understand this and why this then originates extremes in the discussion we'll be good.
    I never said everybody here. I said a few. Not calling out the pro legacy either. Hell admittedly I want Wrath after the first 2 a little because of nostalgia I'll even admit to it.

  4. #37444
    Quote Originally Posted by Raenor View Post
    1. I was waiting for this to come up - I'm like a puppet master . Dude I've been playing wow for 12 years and ALWAYS on RP realm (first argent dawn RP, then defias RP-PVP). The RP in WoW IS DEAD. There used to be rules, policies. There is not anymore. All you can do is try to roleplay with your friends strictly - but you can do this on PVP realms so whatever.

    2. I'm not pretending anything - max lvl was not a priority in old wow. I can't tell you anything but just refer to the old times, I've played the game, I even stopped on lvl 19 to get the best gear there was between 10-19 and kickass in Warsong Gulch. There were dozens of people like that then! There were also people like you said, okay - but didnt you say that hardcore raiders were 1% of the game?

    Thats just the same thing as it was with star wars Galaxies - before the patch which introduced jedi class etc, people would play the games as...singers. When the patch came out everybody wanted to be a jedi.

    3. You won't convince me with transmog, it's okay but it ruins the game for me. Am I allowed to have an opinion? and okay - there are people who inspect others but you gotta admit that there are dozens of cool looking armor now - nobody is going to say now "wow look how cool this guy looks" - because there are dozens of cool looking chars everywhere. Everybody looks epic and thats why everybody looks boring.

    It's not. Understand that what happened for you does not mean it happened to someone else. Most people disgusted with how the game looks now left already so you cant really say what people did overall.
    1. RP realms still exist and RP still happens in retail. It is not dead. It might not be what it was 12 years ago but that is maybe because it is you know, 12 years ago.

    2. Max lvl was a priority for some, just as alts and gearing up were. Level 19 BGs I seem to remember gaining most/more popularity in TBC and WotLK. So maybe that is a carryover from later expansions adding a new dimension to a Legacy realm should those happen. The thing is in Vanilla you had LESS options than you do in live. Vanilla had leveling, pvp, alts, raids, dungeons and 'exploring'. That's about it. Later expansions added pet battles, achievements, daily quests, arenas and so on.

    What you mean people wanted to play Jedi in a Star Wars game? You don't say!?

    3. Sorry the game is 'ruined' because you can't show off raid drops and think you are better than others. Oh wait except you CAN still do that with mythic raiding gear in the current tier. Want to see armor hardly anyone wears? Look at the newest gear and don't Xmog it. Why? Because everyone Xmogs out of stuff into sets they've liked.


    And finally. YOU do NOT know why people left the game. There are MANY reasons for it. They didn't just leave because of stuff you think is wrong with the game.

  5. #37445
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    I never said everybody here. I said a few.
    It doesn't matter. You can't have a pragmatic view on this subject. You're either pro- or anti-. And once you've picked your side, forum logic dictates that you must argue your point until the opposing party either concedes or gets upset enough to flame you, get infracted and decide to leave the discussion. (See also: Winning an argument on the internet.)

  6. #37446
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And by your post you're not really good at reading comprehension. Two can play this game.

    I simply said that those particular arguments are nonsensical. Because they are. They speak about "exploring a world" that has been explored countless times. Veteran WoW players know each nook and cranny of the world, both pre- and post-Cataclysm. The feeling of something 'new', of something 'to be explored', was lost already. Yet people speak as if releasing Legacy will do something akin to completely wiping the players' minds of anything WoW-related to let them experience the game for the first time. Again.


    Y'know, the thing I wrote about you and reading comprehension was just made in jest to prove a point, but now I'm starting to think there's more truth to that joke of mine than I initially thought.
    Here again you fail at understanding what I m saying. Whatever you do you won't be able to convince someone who want and can play vanilla that vanilla is crappy, because it is a highly subjective matter. If someone is saying that he feels exploration is better in vanilla than in hello kitty online, you have no right stating that he is wrong, because it is a subjective matter.

    If someone wants to watch movies shot in the 60s because that particular someone feels they had something modern movies don't have, you just cannot expect so called "arguments" to change his/her heart.

    This isn't because the good aspects of a particular game are lost on you that they are lost for everybody. The only reason you d have to debate which game (between wow vanilla and modern wow) is better would be if people asked blizzard to stop operating legion server to run vanilla server. However, nobody is requesting that.

    Yeah....he never says that X expansion is better than Vanilla (nor does he correct people that claim Vanilla or TBC are better and so on) and I'm pretty certain we all understand why people like Vanilla. I think you are the one having issues understanding Ielenia's point.
    I think you missed the point of my post.


    And finally. YOU do NOT know why people left the game. There are MANY reasons for it. They didn't just leave because of stuff you think is wrong with the game.
    Well actually trends show people started to bail out from the game when they ruined the battle system at 3.0.
    Last edited by mmoc18e6a734ba; 2016-12-23 at 12:38 PM.

  7. #37447
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanelis View Post
    Here again you fail at understanding what I m saying. Whatever you do you won't be able to convince someone who want and can play vanilla that vanilla is crappy, because it is a highly subjective matter. If someone is saying that he feels exploration is better in vanilla than in hello kitty online, you have no right stating that he is wrong, because it is a subjective matter.
    Woah woah woah. Don't fuck with Hello Kitty Online. That's just going too far!

  8. #37448
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    It doesn't matter. You can't have a pragmatic view on this subject. You're either pro- or anti-. And once you've picked your side, forum logic dictates that you must argue your point until the opposing party either concedes or gets upset enough to flame you, get infracted and decide to leave the discussion. (See also: Winning an argument on the internet.)
    Maybe that's where the problem lies you see.

    On 1 "side" you have a group of ppl confortably playing the game they want to play and for them this is just "winning an argument". While on the other "side" you have a group of ppl that want to play a game that isn't available to them and "winning the argument" is kinda irrelevant.

    Some times a little bit of empathy goes a long way.

  9. #37449
    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    Maybe that's where the problem lies you see.

    On 1 "side" you have a group of ppl confortably playing the game they want to play and for them this is just "winning an argument". While on the other "side" you have a group of ppl that want to play a game that isn't available to them and "winning the argument" is kinda irrelevant.
    Now let's pretend those people who don't want to "win an argument" instead want to make the game that the former group is perfectly comfortable playing a miserable, completely conflicted and ultimately fragmented mess of a community, and we'll be close to understanding the full scope of the discussion. Oh, and we'll also pretend that the people who don't want to win this argument can't play a version of the game that's nearly identical for free.

  10. #37450
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Now let's pretend those people who don't want to "win an argument" instead want to make the game that the former group is perfectly comfortable playing a miserable, completely conflicted and ultimately fragmented mess of a community, and we'll be close to understanding the full scope of the discussion.
    It's a risk, i already aknowledge it and saw some other ppl doing the same, it is indeed a risk. But i already said in the past it may also be a golden oppurtunity to leave some remaining hassles from the past that still seem forced in the current game, dont you think?

  11. #37451
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Now let's pretend those people who don't want to "win an argument" instead want to make the game that the former group is perfectly comfortable playing a miserable, completely conflicted and ultimately fragmented mess of a community, and we'll be close to understanding the full scope of the discussion. Oh, and we'll also pretend that the people who don't want to win this argument can't play a version of the game that's nearly identical for free.
    "If Blizzard did legacy it would kill retail"

    You honestly feel this way?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
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  12. #37452
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    "If Blizzard did legacy it would kill retail"

    You honestly feel this way?
    Look at this forum. Read any topic. Look at how divisive everybody is about literally fucking everything. If you don't think something like Legacy won't cause major rifts in the community, potentially destroying entire guilds and ruining whatever tiny semblance of community is left, you're insane.

    Mind you, I don't think the idea of Legacy is flawed. It definitely deserves to be explored and I support it conceptually. But certainly not while Blizzard is providing updates for the retail version of the game. Legacy is something you add to a MMO to extend its lifecycle after you've shuttered its primary storyline. I personally don't see it happening for another expansion or two, potentially even more if Blizzard continues to make quality expansions using their current business model.
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2016-12-23 at 12:50 PM. Reason: a word

  13. #37453
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Look at this forum. Read any topic. Look at how divisive everybody is about literally fucking everything. If you don't think something like Legacy won't cause major rifts in the community, potentially destroying entire guilds and ruining whatever tiny semblance of community is left, you're insane.

    Mind you, I don't think the concept of Legacy is flawed. It definitely deserves to be explored and I support it conceptually. But certainly not while Blizzard is providing updates for the retail version of the game. Legacy is something you add to a MMO to extend its lifecycle after you've shuttered its primary storyline. I personally don't see it happening for another expansion or two, potentially even more if Blizzard continues to make quality expansions using their current business model.
    Personally I'd say that ship has sailed re: community; but maybe things were turning around in legion.

    Anyway I thought the idea was that it was sought by such a tiny number of people; how is that going to meaningfully impact on the millions currently playing in a manner compared with "no flying" or "split raids" or "CRZ" which affected the millions directly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    We can't pass the Magna Carta! That's socialism!

  14. #37454
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanelis View Post
    Here again you fail at understanding what I m saying. Whatever you do you won't be able to convince someone who want and can play vanilla that vanilla is crappy, because it is a highly subjective matter.
    Again, I initially meant it as a joke, but now I'm seriously doubting your reading comprehension skills. When have I ever said, recently, that "retail is better than vanilla" or that "vanilla is crappy"? I haven't.

    If someone is saying that he feels exploration is better in vanilla than in hello kitty online, you have no right stating that he is wrong, because it is a subjective matter.
    You don't understand. There's no point in "finding wonder" in something you've "explored" a thousand times over. Nothing can re-capture whatever feelings you felt when you made your first character in WoW and set your first step in Elwynn Forest/Durotar/Dun Morogh/Mulgore or even in Eversong Woods/Azuremyst Isle/Gilneas/Kezan. Re-releasing those places as they were back then won't do it, either. "Exploration" implies uncovering an unfamiliar area, and, honestly, what's "unfamiliar" about any of WoW's zones to the veteran player?

    If someone wants to watch movies shot in the 60s because that particular someone feels they had something modern movies don't have, you just cannot expect so called "arguments" to change his/her heart.
    Reading comprehension: you really lack it. First off: I'm not trying to convince anybody that liking vanilla is wrong. Second: your analogy would make more sense if said someone argues that the reason movies from the 60's are better is because of the "magic" of seeing them for the first time, when he has watched those movies already.

    Well actually trends show people started to bail out from the game when they ruined the battle system at 3.0.
    The "battle system" had no changes at all at 3.0. All Wrath did was add the Death Knights into the mix. New talent trees came with MoP (which was 5.0) and the stat squish came in WoD (which was 6.0)
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  15. #37455
    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    For shits and grins, if blizzard would release a legacy server how do you think they would do it? One PVE/PVP/RP vanilla realm for example?
    Looking at the demand on some pservers i don't think that would be enough. Something along the lines of 2xPVE and 4xPVP to start with and increase on demand. That's my opinion at least.

  16. #37456
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Look at this forum. Read any topic. Look at how divisive everybody is about literally fucking everything. If you don't think something like Legacy won't cause major rifts in the community, potentially destroying entire guilds and ruining whatever tiny semblance of community is left, you're insane.

    Mind you, I don't think the idea of Legacy is flawed. It definitely deserves to be explored and I support it conceptually. But certainly not while Blizzard is providing updates for the retail version of the game. Legacy is something you add to a MMO to extend its lifecycle after you've shuttered its primary storyline. I personally don't see it happening for another expansion or two, potentially even more if Blizzard continues to make quality expansions using their current business model.
    So we don't have very long, then? :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    Looking at the demand on some pservers i don't think that would be enough. Something along the lines of 2xPVE and 4xPVP to start with and increase on demand. That's my opinion at least.
    Elysium is currently utterly swamped on their PvP and PvE servers.
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  17. #37457
    Quote Originally Posted by Sosoulsu View Post
    So we don't have very long, then? :P

    - - - Updated - - -



    Elysium is currently utterly swamped on their PvP and PvE servers.
    Pve not so much, the population only started increasing there because the PVP one is always packed. First few days it was something like 6k on PVE and 12k on pvp at least during my prime time.

  18. #37458
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    It doesn't matter. You can't have a pragmatic view on this subject. You're either pro- or anti-. And once you've picked your side, forum logic dictates that you must argue your point until the opposing party either concedes or gets upset enough to flame you, get infracted and decide to leave the discussion. (See also: Winning an argument on the internet.)
    Actually Forum Logic is fully on the side of the people who content any claim to allegedly like an older version of the game pre-4.0 is nostalgia. Forum logic also clarifies that this cannot be extrapolated to other games or similar non-game situations, it is only for wow and only for pre-4.0 'like more' claims. Don't make the mistake of assuming forum logic isn't non-euclidean.

    And don't bring up the tired example of the original star wars vs either the phantom menace (clearly superior in every way, and had the most technologically advanced character ever (jarjar)) or the lucas re-cgi's of the original movie (also clearly superior in every sense). No one who claims to like the original star wars more can be taken as anything other than severely afflicted with nostalgia and needing some attention from the heroes here
    Last edited by Deficineiron; 2016-12-23 at 12:58 PM.
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  19. #37459
    Quote Originally Posted by Packers01 View Post
    Okay, so now that pandora's box is open and we have this, where is my BC server? Where is the wrath server many people would want? An RP realm? EU? You see how this gets out of hand fast and suddenly this little project starts to sucks resources out current wow.

    - - - Updated - - -



    What is swamped?
    It isn't any pandora box, for me it isnt at least, i thought you were refering to vanilla only, because for me it's a given, looking at the several thousands playin on LK servers for example that if blizzard opens vanilla, they "have" to do it for other expansions where the
    demand also exists.

    swamped is opening up with only 2 servers and having 3k+ queues at times.

  20. #37460
    Quote Originally Posted by Sosoulsu View Post
    So we don't have very long, then? :P
    Perhaps. Legion looks to have been fairly successful so it doesn't seem as if Blizzard is willing to give up on the WoW gravy train just yet.

    Further, while I'm often accused of being an anti-Legacy retail loving Blizzdrone, the truth is that I'm not even actively playing WoW currently. I don't think Legion was a step in the right direction (for the way I want to play the game) but I don't care enough about the old versions of WoW to support them either. I do, however, find irritation in poor argumentation in favor of Legacy so that's part of the reason I've remained active in this thread.

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