Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deficineiron]

ROFL. WoW isn't some majestic beast that is the last of it's kind to exist that somehow can't do the same things other companies do. For someone who has such high fanboy-ism of them, you would assume you would have more faith they could accomplish what other companies do, even more so given their available resources.

You need to stop with the logic and apply Forum Logic.

Your points are easily dimissed once that filter is applied.

Jagex can do a retroserver with a small fraction of wow's active playerbase because it is small and different. Blizzard would have a MUCH harder time because of wow's large player and revenue base, to such a degree it would detract from the current retail game.

jagex does about ~~10% AS A COMPANY FROM ALL PRODUCTS of the revenue that blizzard gets from WOW by itself annually, based on some recent numbers. (~50M GBP VS 800M$US) That is why it was easier for Jagex to do a retro-server. Blizzard has massively higher wow revenue than that number so it would cost then tons more to develop.

Wow's high revenue is a big part of why they are having so much trouble producing content now with the largest team ever - only one major patch in WoD is a major sign of success, sort of like a badge of pride.

[Tome]

Lol, just lol, you do realise i have been paying and playing this game for 11 years, so i think i am entitled to say what i feel about the game and demand a legacy server, so no i wont do it quietly, i am a customer of the game and i demand a vanilla server, its as simple as that.

I do want legacy realms too, but you should chill out for a while.

You can demand whatever you want, but Blizzard can deny whatever you want too, they have no law to follow your demands.

The difference is if they can see good business practice in it or not, it's for them to decide, even if they had data of 90% of the player base "demanding" something, they can still choose to ignore it, but they would lose money on it most likely.

[Tart]

Awful comparison. MMORPGS are meant to move on, not remain at one particular installment of the game that players can put on their shelves & pick up to play exactly as they were. Most console titles, like Zelda or non online FF titles are meant to be used for that purpose.

You brought up a good point that I'm going to address; "... if the product is brought to vanilla well then I will play as a i liked that". I've posted this a couple times in this thread already, but apparently private player servers still don't get it. Most of these types of players don't want new different content as much as they actually want the game to take a 180 & regress back into an earlier version of the game, albeit with some of the modern QoL changes in later expansions. In the end this desire would not benefit retail. I won't argue whether or not it would detract from it, but it is quite easy to effectively argue focusing development time to roll back the game would stagnate it when it would be at the expense of more new new ideas for the future retail game. WoW is not going to move forward solely on old ideas from an old expansion, it needs a steady flow of new things added from its own development team & ideas from the community.

It's not an awful comparison and bringing a games genre into it makes no difference what's so ever. The fact of the matter is games can be remastered and released.

Is the retail side now trying to play that card now?

[Kyanion]

I think blizzard totally could do it. Whether or not it would be as successful as some claim is where I have my doubts. I don't expect a high conversion rate from free to pay. Which is why I doubt blizzards mind will be changed at this time. I could see it happening when the sub numbers drop lower as then whatever it attracts may be a significant boost.

I just worry that it would hurt WoW in the long term. What if Vanilla servers come out and hella flop? Or people demand TBD, WotLK and so on. Is it even worth the risk for Blizz to divert attention away from Legion and current expansions? I mean sales of the expansion are a nice boost along with the sub fees. *shrugs* I'm curious what they'll do but I don't think it will be something we see til Legion is winding down if even then.

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EQ isn't the only success story with these type of servers. I could care less about your opinion. Don't voice your opinion if you don't want people to disagree with you or point out how wrong your opinion is. Should consider changing your opinion until you can reliably support it.

I'm glad you decided to reply if you could 'care less' about my opinion. And disagree with my opinion? It is a fucking opinion. I am not spouting truths and neither are you. Disagree with my opinion all you want, you won't change my stance. Wow =/= Runescape and EQ

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You need to stop with the logic and apply Forum Logic.

Your points are easily dimissed once that filter is applied.

Jagex can do a retroserver with a small fraction of wow's active playerbase because it is small and different. Blizzard would have a MUCH harder time because of wow's large player and revenue base, to such a degree it would detract from the current retail game.

jagex does about ~~10% AS A COMPANY FROM ALL PRODUCTS of the revenue that blizzard gets from WOW by itself annually, based on some recent numbers. (~50M GBP VS 800M$US) That is why it was easier for Jagex to do a retro-server. Blizzard has massively higher wow revenue than that number so it would cost then tons more to develop.

Wow's high revenue is a big part of why they are having so much trouble producing content now with the largest team ever - only one major patch in WoD is a major sign of success, sort of like a badge of pride.

No kidding, Runescape + EQ COMBINED are still not enough of a sign to say "OMG retro servers, do it!".

[Deficineiron]

No kidding, Runescape + EQ COMBINED are still not enough of a sign to say "OMG retro servers, do it!".

darn straight. In fact, I think wow would probably start losing money if they tried. with a playerbase and former playerbase as large as western wow's, with a subscription model, it is very dangerous to try anything because the monthly subscription revenue can run you broke and then bobby gets mad and restructures blizzard!

[Kyanion]

darn straight. In fact, I think wow would probably start losing money if they tried. with a playerbase and former playerbase as large as western wow's, with a subscription model, it is very dangerous to try anything because the monthly subscription revenue can run you broke and then bobby gets mad and restructures blizzard!

I think in the short term they'd make money with classic servers but I just don't see people sticking with it as long as people claim. Or they'll just demand the Vanilla servers get TBC and so on. Already saw some polls with quite the different answers to the question of how Vanilla should start up. Patch 1.12, fresh, fresh with timed content releases and so on. How is picking one of those going to make everyone happy? Just might anger people who would rather have TBC or WotLK (both more popular than Vanilla).

[Darkeon]

darn straight. In fact, I think wow would probably start losing money if they tried. with a playerbase and former playerbase as large as western wow's, with a subscription model, it is very dangerous to try anything because the monthly subscription revenue can run you broke and then bobby gets mad and restructures blizzard!

If I were them I would cancel Overwatch, out of panic, too!

Who knows if it'll bring profit, outside of the initial rush! Cancel it! Be safe, Blizzard! Don't do anything reckless!

[Eliseus]

I just worry that it would hurt WoW in the long term. What if Vanilla servers come out and hella flop? Or people demand TBD, WotLK and so on. Is it even worth the risk for Blizz to divert attention away from Legion and current expansions? I mean sales of the expansion are a nice boost along with the sub fees. *shrugs* I'm curious what they'll do but I don't think it will be something we see til Legion is winding down if even then.

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I'm glad you decided to reply if you could 'care less' about my opinion. And disagree with my opinion? It is a fucking opinion. I am not spouting truths and neither are you. Disagree with my opinion all you want, you won't change my stance. Wow =/= Runescape and EQ

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No kidding, Runescape + EQ COMBINED are still not enough of a sign to say "OMG retro servers, do it!".

More than just Runescape + EQ.

[Saucerian]

You need to stop with the logic and apply Forum Logic.

Your points are easily dimissed once that filter is applied.

Jagex can do a retroserver with a small fraction of wow's active playerbase because it is small and different. Blizzard would have a MUCH harder time because of wow's large player and revenue base, to such a degree it would detract from the current retail game.

jagex does about ~~10% AS A COMPANY FROM ALL PRODUCTS of the revenue that blizzard gets from WOW by itself annually, based on some recent numbers. (~50M GBP VS 800M$US) That is why it was easier for Jagex to do a retro-server. Blizzard has massively higher wow revenue than that number so it would cost then tons more to develop.

Wow's high revenue is a big part of why they are having so much trouble producing content now with the largest team ever - only one major patch in WoD is a major sign of success, sort of like a badge of pride.

This new Forum Logic amazes me, Sir Deficineiron. Explain how sheep's bladders prevent earthquakes.

Enjoying your recent posts. Seriously, academic journals should run articles.

[Deficineiron]

I think in the short term they'd make money with classic servers but I just don't see people sticking with it as long as people claim. Or they'll just demand the Vanilla servers get TBC and so on. Already saw some polls with quite the different answers to the question of how Vanilla should start up. Patch 1.12, fresh, fresh with timed content releases and so on. How is picking one of those going to make everyone happy? Just might anger people who would rather have TBC or WotLK (both more popular than Vanilla).

more seriously, I think the 'old server' crowd would be pretty happy to get ANYTHING early (say 3.x-prior) that wasn't frankenstein'ed. there is a whole subset of people that would go just for pvp and actively use the server(s)

i also think there is no way activision-blizzard doesn't pull a Kotick and, if anything were to ever happen, release a Frankenstein server rather than an authentic one.

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This new Forum Logic amazes me, Sir Deficineiron. Explain how sheep's bladders prevent earthquakes.

Enjoying your recent posts. Seriously, academic journals should run articles.

well you have to inflate the bladder. while waiting for the ritual, small children may play with it if you tie it off, as it may be the original 'balloon' toy in our pre-history (not just sheep of course.).

I will need to consult the ancient to see if I may reveal the earthquake ritual. in any event, you have a new balloon to play with in the interim. (edit the lamb bladder isn't what you need, you need a the blood of a dragon, the ear of a king, and the heart of a hero. if you name the literary reference, bonus points and I will give the cooking time)

lamb stomachs are interesting, but for other reasons. once you get a ways north (or north-west) of glasgow/edinburgh, local butchers still produce their own haggis. It is worth checking out every decent-sized town you go to. In the south I prefer macsween's, thogh I don't know borders or d&g well at all.

[Reapocalypse]

If I were them I would cancel Overwatch, out of panic, too!

Who knows if it'll bring profit, outside of the initial rush! Cancel it! Be safe, Blizzard! Don't do anything reckless!

Not sure if it has been posted here already:

http://www.pcinvasion.com/ex-world-o...=socialnetwork

Interesting interview, even tho his creditability is doubted, he gives some insight about what Blizzard thought back when they worked on WoW and what risk they took with it.

[MoanaLisa]

Cancel it! Be safe, Blizzard! Don't do anything reckless!

They are a very conservative company as far as business matters go. It's one reason why they are slow. Another is that they are very big. Being as large as they are has its problems but it gives them an enormous amount of leverage. Deficineiron has it pretty much right: A million dollars in additional revenue to a much smaller company like Jagex is a fairly big deal. It's not really much of anything to a company that does a million dollars in revenue every few hours. The potential profit from vanilla servers (revenue minus costs and maintenance) is so relatively small it's really not worth bothering with.

[gamingmuscle]

I just worry that it would hurt WoW in the long term. What if Vanilla servers come out and hella flop? Or people demand TBD, WotLK and so on. Is it even worth the risk for Blizz to divert attention away from Legion and current expansions? I mean sales of the expansion are a nice boost along with the sub fees. *shrugs* I'm curious what they'll do but I don't think it will be something we see til Legion is winding down if even then.

My thinking is it could happen when WoW subs drop to where a few hundred thousand extra players is now a huge boost, and not just 1 quarters churn.

If they were to press magic button and poof legacy servers would exist now I could see it "hurting" their main product line. In that some may migrate over and you would lose population on the current servers. For the players that probably would mean we'd lose some friends/guildies/see less people around. At least until blizzard re-groups things.

[Darkeon]

They are a very conservative company as far as business matters go. It's one reason why they are slow. Another is that they are very big. Being as large as they are has its problems but it gives them an enormous amount of leverage. Deficineiron has it pretty much right: A million dollars in additional revenue to a much smaller company like Jagex is a fairly big deal. It's not really much of anything to a company that does a million dollars in revenue every few hours. The potential profit from vanilla servers (revenue minus costs and maintenance) is so relatively small it's really not worth bothering with.

Oh, I completely agree. I'd view it the same way if I was in charge of it.

I am however a consumer. I'd rather have more than less.

My only concern is "Can the Company do this for it's consumers and still bring profit? Yes"; That's all I need to know. I'm sure they'll in turn worry about "How much profit? What if we do X instead, will it bring even more profit?", but that has nothing to do with me anymore. Up to them if they want to show value to their consumers, or if they rather keep up with the "yearly expansion+yearly drought" scheme and maximize profits.

[Deficineiron]

They are a very conservative company as far as business matters go. It's one reason why they are slow. Another is that they are very big. Being as large as they are has its problems but it gives them an enormous amount of leverage. Deficineiron has it pretty much right: A million dollars in additional revenue to a much smaller company like Jagex is a fairly big deal. It's not really much of anything to a company that does a million dollars in revenue every few hours. The potential profit from vanilla servers (revenue minus costs and maintenance) is so relatively small it's really not worth bothering with.

also important to frame all this with the context that we don't know how 'managed' blizzard is with overhead by atvi. it may well be a near-zero sum world for them where they cannot easily just go 'hire some devs' or something beyond their current staffing needs/attrition.

I think given the size of the current and former playerbase (western) and wow's sub model, it would be very hard for blizzard to actually lose money on a project like this, given rational cost management. big caveat there because these folks apparently couldn't even get netherstorm into wod. they have issues, perhaps.

the issue is suppose they think 'we can show a net profit on the project of 10 or 20 or 30 million/annual for at least a few years. It will never get greenlighted.

none of this touches on the Frankenstein scenario, which I consider much more likely.

[Kyanion]

My thinking is it could happen when WoW subs drop to where a few hundred thousand extra players is now a huge boost, and not just 1 quarters churn.

If they were to press magic button and poof legacy servers would exist now I could see it "hurting" their main product line. In that some may migrate over and you would lose population on the current servers. For the players that probably would mean we'd lose some friends/guildies/see less people around. At least until blizzard re-groups things.

I think that is the likely scenario. Blizzard's sub numbers drop to unacceptable levels or the point where the game won't be getting new content. Then you come back with legacy servers and milk it. Why risk Legion and beyond by doing it now.

I know it would suck being unable to play with a friend because they went to Vanilla Realm B and I went to TBC A or stayed on Legion or the expansion after. Maybe one day I'll have to worry about that scenario but I hope it is well after Legion.

[Deleted]

I want my Vanilla/BC server like 200 000 other gamers that signed so far!
https://www.change.org/p/mike-morhai...raft-community

[Deleted]

I want my Vanilla/BC server like 200 000 other gamers that signed so far!
https://www.change.org/p/mike-morhai...raft-community

Thats not really alot for an MMO so they might just aswell skip it

[Deficineiron]

Thats not really alot for an MMO so they might just aswell skip it

definitely. I think it is only half what swtor and gw2 have, approximately, in active users. FFXIV is lower than those but still higher than 200k I think.

for those missing the hidden detail - nost's active player (10-day) base was a respectable fraction of swtor, gw2 and ffxiv's active player base (30-day definitions I think).

[NightZero88]

I want my Vanilla/BC server like 200 000 other gamers that signed so far!
https://www.change.org/p/mike-morhai...raft-community

200k is like a drop in the bucket for an MMO so hardly worth it.