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  1. #221
    Immortal Zandalarian Paladin's Avatar
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    An indie team who makes a first time aRPG with a solid core gameplay, being destroyed by the hypemind who barely understand the game just because the online version cannot be played because of too many players at once (something solid AAA studios can't even do right in 2020), AND YET offer an offline version - something that not even Diablo did.

    Yup, that resume the ecosystem well.
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  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Dude... both paladins AND overwatch were "heavily inspired" by TF2.

    Paladins and overwatch actually play quite a bit different than each other, just like Wolcen plays quite a bit different than Diablo.

    Diablo doesn't have a copyright on "dark"
    This is a moronic take. Overwatch is how you should do a "different take on a genre". It's an FPS with classes, everything else is different. Wolcen is how you should not do a "different take on a genre" - the entire UI is almost identical.

    You're lying to yourself if you think the main menu screen wasn't straight up ripped from D3 right down to the shape of the buttons. You're lying to yourself if you don't think they straight up stole the entire animation/font for damage numbers when something is attacked in game. You're lying to yourself if you pretend the inventory art for shit like gems isn't the exact same thing as D3 gems. You're lying to yourself if basic shit like the town portal icon isn't a pixel for pixel copy.

    It's hilarious seeing the same people talking about how Wolcen is an "amazing game" that were seething about Diablo Immortal a few months back. Garbage devs wholesale stealing shit from other games is just as bad for the industry as mobile gaming is. But sure, I get it, you get more attention on the internet by saying Blizzard sucks and Wolcen is the best game released this year.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    It's definitely not without issues though... there's an EXTREMELY annoying issues with the mouse for me... I can click directly on an item on the ground sometimes and it acts like I want to move to a completely different spot and not pick up the item, I have to spam like 20 times to get it to pick up. It's keeping me from enjoying the game.
    Oh I agree 100%. There are other issues, but the vast majority of them are from the server stuff. The game is fantastic and the dev team said on a stream a list of things they are still working on. I have faith that they are committed to this and will deliver. Sure, the launch could have been better but I'm loving the game so far.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    This is a moronic take. Overwatch is how you should do a "different take on a genre". It's an FPS with classes, everything else is different. Wolcen is how you should not do a "different take on a genre" - the entire UI is almost identical.

    You're lying to yourself if you think the main menu screen wasn't straight up ripped from D3 right down to the shape of the buttons. You're lying to yourself if you don't think they straight up stole the entire animation/font for damage numbers when something is attacked in game. You're lying to yourself if you pretend the inventory art for shit like gems isn't the exact same thing as D3 gems. You're lying to yourself if basic shit like the town portal icon isn't a pixel for pixel copy.

    It's hilarious seeing the same people talking about how Wolcen is an "amazing game" that were seething about Diablo Immortal a few months back. Garbage devs wholesale stealing shit from other games is just as bad for the industry as mobile gaming is. But sure, I get it, you get more attention on the internet by saying Blizzard sucks and Wolcen is the best game released this year.
    Who gives a shit about art? We're here for gameplay and the game plays a lot different than d3. It's much closer to PoE, with skill leveling like Last Epoch thrown in (though I don't know which of those came first)

    I mean.. how many ways can you actually model an inventory screen? All the ARPGs use almost the same style of inventory screen. PoE is an even greater offender of "ripping off art" than Wolcen, they didn't even step away from the orbs for health and mana. But people LOVE PoE.

    I don't care what "art" someone "steals", as long as the game play is fun.
    Last edited by Onikaroshi; 2020-02-16 at 03:48 AM.

  5. #225
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    PoE visually reminds me of Old diablo style before D3 and if I wanted to I could try and argue PoE stole from D1 and D2

    But I won't because thats fucking silly artstyles will vary. I mean Wind waker uses celshading as does Borderlands did Gearbox steal? Lol no.
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  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Maybe it's just not the game you wanted. All the point you stated are moot to me and i'm just having fun to play. In the end i think that a game is good enough if you're having fun with it, independently from how objectively good or bad it is (to a degree obviously).
    Even the worst games ever made will have fans that say this though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I want the ruins of K'aresh for 9.0 as I envision it as Netherstorm on steroids. A broken, shattered world. Eco-domes are stuck on various chunks to protect flora & fauna. I imagine a K'aresh ocean & maybe some islands contained in an eco dome or a snow-capped peak with some jungle valleys in another. Flesh version of Ethereals that never got altered. Space platforms as in Starcraft. Just a totally fantastic tileset & theme that I'd be very keen to explore. They could do some wild things.

  7. #227
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    PoE visually reminds me of Old diablo style before D3 and if I wanted to I could try and argue PoE stole from D1 and D2

    But I won't because thats fucking silly artstyles will vary. I mean Wind waker uses celshading as does Borderlands did Gearbox steal? Lol no.
    Well it would be fair to say that PoE is like D2 because it aims to be a spiritual successor of D2.

    This game isn't trying to do anything but the studios contribution to the genre.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Even the worst games ever made will have fans that say this though.
    And? Not like you can control what people enjoy.

    I have about 200 hours in Anthem and enjoyed the majority of it, most people think that game falls under the "worst games ever made".

    Works both ways too, I've tried to like Witcher III but i just find it boring.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    And? Not like you can control what people enjoy.

    I have about 200 hours in Anthem and enjoyed the majority of it, most people think that game falls under the "worst games ever made".

    Works both ways too, I've tried to like Witcher III but i just find it boring.
    So bring actual content to a thread instead of broad platitudes on your personal feelings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I want the ruins of K'aresh for 9.0 as I envision it as Netherstorm on steroids. A broken, shattered world. Eco-domes are stuck on various chunks to protect flora & fauna. I imagine a K'aresh ocean & maybe some islands contained in an eco dome or a snow-capped peak with some jungle valleys in another. Flesh version of Ethereals that never got altered. Space platforms as in Starcraft. Just a totally fantastic tileset & theme that I'd be very keen to explore. They could do some wild things.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    So bring actual content to a thread instead of broad platitudes on your personal feelings.
    Enjoyment of a game is a personal feeling lol, this entire thread is personal feelings about the game.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    And? Not like you can control what people enjoy.

    I have about 200 hours in Anthem and enjoyed the majority of it, most people think that game falls under the "worst games ever made".

    Works both ways too, I've tried to like Witcher III but i just find it boring.
    That's fair, but personal enjoyment doesn't preclude objective assessments. You're totally allowed to like bad things - that doesn't make them good things, just bad things you enjoy.

    I'm glad you're having fun with Anthem. But there's an entire catalog of objective or fairly objective criteria by which that game is very bad. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't like it, but similarly you liking it doesn't make those objective problems disappear.

    Same here.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    That's fair, but personal enjoyment doesn't preclude objective assessments. You're totally allowed to like bad things - that doesn't make them good things, just bad things you enjoy.

    I'm glad you're having fun with Anthem. But there's an entire catalog of objective or fairly objective criteria by which that game is very bad. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't like it, but similarly you liking it doesn't make those objective problems disappear.

    Same here.
    Here there's a few limited, but annoying, problems for sure. And I hope they get to them quick after the server issue is solved. Mostly the issues I have are related to the mouse stuff, not being able to pick things up right, not always working on right click to sell, etc. The game itself is extremely playable, it just has... annoyances that wear on you.

    It's not a bad game in any objective sense.

    But I also wouldn't say what is in anthem is objectively bad, it just lacks content in the end game, leveling and the initial gearing is fun, but once you're geared there's nothing to do.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    But I also wouldn't say what is in anthem is objectively bad, it just lacks content in the end game, leveling and the initial gearing is fun, but once you're geared there's nothing to do.
    That sounds pretty objective to me :P There not being content isn't tied to preference, it's just a fact.

    Same with Wolcen. People may not like the aesthetic, you may find it copies too much from D3 or PoE or whatever - those are mostly subjective arguments, and whether or not those are good or bad or neutral is up to the individual to decide. But there's also issues like server problems, gameplay bugs, performance problems, etc. which are not subjective.

    I get that every game has some issue on launch these days, and that people are more willing to judge a game for its long-term potential than they used to be; but that doesn't make those problems not problems. And on a personal note, I think that it's problematic if we let companies get away with charging money for unfinished/unpolished games without making it VERY clear that's the case. Whether or not Wolcen made that clear can be debated.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    That sounds pretty objective to me :P There not being content isn't tied to preference, it's just a fact.

    Same with Wolcen. People may not like the aesthetic, you may find it copies too much from D3 or PoE or whatever - those are mostly subjective arguments, and whether or not those are good or bad or neutral is up to the individual to decide. But there's also issues like server problems, gameplay bugs, performance problems, etc. which are not subjective.

    I get that every game has some issue on launch these days, and that people are more willing to judge a game for its long-term potential than they used to be; but that doesn't make those problems not problems. And on a personal note, I think that it's problematic if we let companies get away with charging money for unfinished/unpolished games without making it VERY clear that's the case. Whether or not Wolcen made that clear can be debated.
    But, it is finished lol, no game releases without bugs and the ones that wolcen has (after fixing the progression loss bug anyway) are not game breaking, they're just mildly annoying

    I can see bitching about the server thing to an extent, but it's a company of like 16 people and it's their first game, they weren't expecting the response. Beta numbers were very low

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I can see bitching about the server thing to an extent, but it's a company of like 16 people and it's their first game, they weren't expecting the response. Beta numbers were very low
    Exactly. I can understand people wanting to play with friends, and these server issues are damn bad. However they expectd around 2-3k players and we were 65k at launch. Bad estimate for sure.

    My current major concern is how far endgame goes, as in "how much time to do eveything it takes". Too fast and you feel you're done, too long and it feels a drag. But i'vyet to finish the story, so....

    Sidenote, my build apparently is good. I'm melting things and i'm currently running deathless. If i manage to do it it would be awesome. Though the game crashed one time and i don't know if it counts as death.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Exactly. I can understand people wanting to play with friends, and these server issues are damn bad. However they expectd around 2-3k players and we were 65k at launch. Bad estimate for sure.

    My current major concern is how far endgame goes, as in "how much time to do eveything it takes". Too fast and you feel you're done, too long and it feels a drag. But i'vyet to finish the story, so....

    Sidenote, my build apparently is good. I'm melting things and i'm currently running deathless. If i manage to do it it would be awesome. Though the game crashed one time and i don't know if it counts as death.
    End game that we had on beta was decently fun, so hopefully the additional parts will only add to it

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Who gives a shit about art? We're here for gameplay and the game plays a lot different than d3. It's much closer to PoE, with skill leveling like Last Epoch thrown in (though I don't know which of those came first)

    I mean.. how many ways can you actually model an inventory screen? All the ARPGs use almost the same style of inventory screen. PoE is an even greater offender of "ripping off art" than Wolcen, they didn't even step away from the orbs for health and mana. But people LOVE PoE.

    I don't care what "art" someone "steals", as long as the game play is fun.
    Right, so you picked one specific thing out of the list of tens of things they straight up ripped from D3 and decided that was enough to say "nope not the same at all". Just be honest - you know the game is almost entirely plagiarized, but you personally enjoy the game, so you don't care.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Right, so you picked one specific thing out of the list of tens of things they straight up ripped from D3 and decided that was enough to say "nope not the same at all". Just be honest - you know the game is almost entirely plagiarized, but you personally enjoy the game, so you don't care.
    Except it's not? It's an ARPG, it's bound to have things that look like other ARPGs, just like every other ARPG does. Shit, look at Grim Dawn, that might as well be a Diablo 2 clone if you want to call things out.

    Using generic ARPG things is not "plagiarizing from diablo", almost EVERY arpg looks similar in many aspects. The load screen for PoE looks like it was torn right from DII.

    Are we going to fault every ARPG that has zombies now? Oh that game has zombies, must be a Diablo ripoff.







    Oh lord, someone call the thought police, the inventory screens are all stolen! Nope, just standard arpg inventory screens, like other standard arpg tropes.
    Last edited by Onikaroshi; 2020-02-16 at 07:08 AM.

  19. #239
    Herald of the Titans Strawberry's Avatar
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    Wolcen is fantastic. I've had a blast playing it.

    Of course, very few ARPGs can beat Diablo series (I'm biased because me and Diablo go back to the '90s), Grim Dawn was fun (got over 120h sunk into it) but you actually putting Path of Exile in the same basket with these great games?
    Lol, Path of Exile took the best part of ARPG and monetized it. Every piece of gear that drops in that game looks like shit because the store has the best looking gear you have to pay for.
    Fuck F2P.

  20. #240
    Warchief Deldavala's Avatar
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    I was so hyped for this game, and at its core its a great game, but I would like some more QoL improvements and fixing of the most glaring bugs(unhittable mobs for instance). The sad part is that I got to act 3 first night, but since then the servers have been offline. Started Offline and got to mid Act2 and my character got resest. Its quite a mess, hopefully the devs fix all these issues before the game bleeds out. So yeah, even though I like the game, this launch has been a disaster, and I think it actually would have been better if the game had a few more weeks/months in the oven before release.

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