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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    If your whole argument is "MTX are bad because people end up homeless after buying too much stuff on Candycrush" I think we don't need to talk further, because that is beyond ludicrous.


    Yes, why bother providing actual structured arguments when you can just yell "BUT IT RUINS LIVES! (source: dude, trust me)" real loud and then go "you're just wrong" when someone calls out the BS.


    The borderline racist conspiracy theory stuff aside, nobody is saying these aren't companies trying to make money; that's always a given. But there's good ways to use MTX to do so and there's bad ways, and all in all, PoE falls more on the good side than the bad side.

    You want to just pay $60 for a game and be done with it.

    But have you thought about people who can't afford that? Who rely on MTX-based systems to play anything at all?

    Also, have you done the actual math? Have you checked how much you get for $60 worth of MTX, and whether that adds up to enough of a game for you to warrant a purchase?

    Or are you only interested in incoherent vitriol without any substantive thought behind it?
    I wrote 4 objective way HOW mtx are bad from a consumer standpoint. With arguments. Your are "im poor and want entertainment". I dont care, grow a spine.

    Tencent Games is in full support of China Goverment, selling something to them is selling it into China Goverment. Its like common knowledge. And yes, China Goverment is fucked up, that is not racist.

    There is no good MTX. Wrote 4 reasons why. Even in f2p games they are viewed as something to just move past (hint: you dont do that for good things) because well, game is cheap so a little non ideal situation is meh.

    I dont give a flying fuck is somebody say they cant afford PREMIUM THINGS (video games are premium) unless those things are overpriced as fuck (most of all digital deluxe editions now days). Because they are non essential. If you cant afford video game well, fuck. Move on. I cant afford learning to pilot helicopter but would REALLY want to. Or expensive vacations in the best 5 stars hotels. Or the first printing of Guttenberg Bible. Or spend time and money to learn how to play instrument.
    And again - in f2p titles they are neccessary evil. Neccessary evil is NOT a good thing.

    You cant math experience. You simply cant, one of the best experience for me was Firewatch which i spend whole 1 day playing and still believe it is one of the best money spend. This is a fault created by the consumers which devs happily oblidge (create long games to justify the cost) instead of creating meaningfull experiences with the same amount of time. Because people are dumb. Movie ticket also isnt cheap and provide what? 2 hours of entertainment? Do you dont go to see movies because 2 hours are not worth per cent spent? Do if somebody spit on another person you are happy because he get free moisture?
    Do you understand why that logic is flawed?

    You are projecting so much your stuff into me.

  2. #642
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Firsly it draw the content AWAY from the game, those models need to be created by the same artists and devs who create the stuff to put in game and not in the store. So every item, no matter how cosmetic, put time and money away from actually putting content into a game.
    Assumption bias. Reality is that a different team will work on things like cosmetic appearances and FX. In real real reality, they outsource that shit to the cheapest bidder. This is a fallacy to assume producing Item/Content A detracts from Item/Content B, especially when B funds the entire production of A,B,C,D......ZZZZ

    Argument 1: Invalid

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Secondly, we all want to look good, and they damn well know that. While what is good look for one is not the same for other the basic principle is the same. So putting content behind a paywall when we already payed for a game is shitty.
    We all want to be rich. We all want hot spouses. We all want want want want. This is a terrible mentality. You are judging others for saying they are poor and want things for free when you're right here asking for everything 'for one cost to yourself'. That's the same thing.

    Additionally, if you are playing a game for gameplay second and visual appearance of an Avatar trumps that for you, then you should move on to things like the Sims and Second Life.

    Argument 2: Invalid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Thirdly it preys on insecure, those with some sort mental illness.
    I assume you're only talking about gambling boxes here, otherwise you could say everything in a Capitalist society preys on the 'mentally ill'. Additionally, you just said you wanted all of this stuff in the game. Do you have a self proclaimed mental illness about looking fancy that deters you from experiencing games normally? Do you assume everyone else has your similar illness and lack of self-awareness/control?

    I shouldn't even need to say this, but --
    Agument 3: Invalid

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Dont be fooled, the people who are WHALES are not some milionaires or Henrys Cavills of this world who spend 1% of their income for comestics only. Whales are everymans who goes into dept to buy that
    Show me this data. No data, no proof, no argument. I'd wager there's a mix of people in this population, but just on sheer buying power mathematical logic would suggest the majority of people with more money will buy more things at higher cost. This is simple economics. This is a fallacy on either side you are trying to argue.

    Argument 4: Invalid.

    Side Note: From your closing statement, it seems you are the person who has an individual problem controlling themselves with microtransactions and/or had a really bad experience wanting to look pretty when Johnny Awesome rode in circles around you on his fancy mount wearing the new Summer Dress. I'd suggest you leave your own confirmation bias and jilted narrative at the door and bring some logic and facts with you next time.

    ARGUMENTS INVALID.
    BAD WOLF

  3. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Compared to what?

    Buying the base game for $60 and then paying $30 or whatever every few months for an expansion/DLC? Because that's the alternative (or having nothing at all).

    You don't get stuff for free. SOMEONE needs to pay for it SOMEHOW.
    PoE's skins cost like a full game. They purposefully made you look like pleb too without buying myx.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    That is so odd. Heck a country like Thailand has better internet connection than the US.
    The issue is at least 2 fold.

    Companies holding monopolies on many areas (where my parents live the only decent internet they can get is Spectrum, all other options are either slow as shit DSL or satellite) and just sheer landmass. The US is 3.797 million square miles, your example of Thailand is 198,117 square miles, less than the size of the state of Texas, which do you think is easier to cover in Cable?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    PoE's skins cost like a full game. They purposefully made you look like pleb too without buying myx.
    PoE skins aren't made to be bought flat out, if you just buy points they're expensive as fuck.

    If you buy a supporter pack however you can get a large amount of things:

    Full set of armor
    A Soundtrack
    Weapon effect
    Portraits
    Apparitions/Portals/hideouts
    enough points to buy a bunch of other stuff

    waiting for a sale, off one supporter pack, you can get all the shit in the pack plus all the special stash tabs you might want. It's still expensive, but not horrible. Most of the game is played solo anyway, so it's not like you need any of it.

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Compared to what?

    Buying the base game for $60 and then paying $30 or whatever every few months for an expansion/DLC? Because that's the alternative (or having nothing at all).

    You don't get stuff for free. SOMEONE needs to pay for it SOMEHOW.
    MHW dropped for 60, was on sale all the time, and still had a year and a half worth of regular content updates for free with minimal mtx for silly emotes and stickers that cost around 3$. They then released an xpac round 2 years later for 40$ that is also getting regular free content updates for the foreseeable future as they always have.

    Thats the kind of developer that should be getting praised. PoEs shop is one of the most egregious Ive seen only to be rivaled by the likes of nexon games.

    It really blows my mind every time that people defend PoEs shop when theyre doing every shitty practice short of outright pay 2 win at astronomical prices.

    I think PoE has the potential to be one of the most damaging games for the community with the precedent its setting. Tyreal forbid that garbage shop finds its way to D4 and other future ARPGs.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    MHW dropped for 60, was on sale all the time, and still had a year and a half worth of regular content updates for free with minimal mtx for silly emotes and stickers that cost around 3$. They then released an xpac round 2 years later for 40$ that is also getting regular free content updates for the foreseeable future as they always have.

    Thats the kind of developer that should be getting praised. PoEs shop is one of the most egregious Ive seen only to be rivaled by the likes of nexon games.

    It really blows my mind every time that people defend PoEs shop when theyre doing every shitty practice short of outright pay 2 win at astronomical prices.

    I think PoE has the potential to be one of the most damaging games for the community with the precedent its setting. Tyreal forbid that garbage shop finds its way to D4 and other future ARPGs.
    Mhw isn't some angel, it has 288 bucks worth of mtx, in a paid game.

    And you're trying to say that optional mtx in a free game is some death to the arpg industry.

    If you buy one supporter pack every year or two its no different than any paid game.

  7. #647
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post

    I think PoE has the potential to be one of the most damaging games for the community with the precedent its setting. Tyreal forbid that garbage shop finds its way to D4 and other future ARPGs.
    Imagine actually unironically thinking diablo 4 is going to be good

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by Beastiel View Post
    Imagine actually unironically thinking diablo 4 is going to be good
    Imagine hating a game that isn't going to be out for at least 2 years and hasn't even started alpha yet

  9. #649
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beastiel View Post
    Imagine actually unironically thinking diablo 4 is going to be good
    Presuming its going to be bad is stupid as there's not much info to gather on it so this post is stupid.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

    Warrior-Magi at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron

  10. #650
    Quote Originally Posted by Beastiel View Post
    Imagine actually unironically thinking diablo 4 is going to be good
    You are likely a fanboy of PoE. It's fine. They can coexist. He didnt say anything about D4 being good or bad. No one knows.

  11. #651
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Mhw isn't some angel, it has 288 bucks worth of mtx, in a paid game.

    And you're trying to say that optional mtx in a free game is some death to the arpg industry.

    If you buy one supporter pack every year or two its no different than any paid game.
    Also weird to say MHW gets free regular content updates when the vast majority of PoE players get free regular content updates due to others purchasing mtx stuffs. Even new players to the game, whereas MHW has that pay barrier up front.

    I think optional mtx is good for games like these, especially if they follow Wolcen's example where the in-game obtainable armor looks great and there's already an in-game dye/tmog system where every look looted is put into your collection.

    Like D3 feels abandoned to me (even if it may not be, just seems that way) and it's kept me from purchasing the game (I have tried its demo and didn't grab me like Wolcen/PoE).

    Knowing that Wolcen and/or PoE will continue getting updated due to mtx is great because more content for the games I'm enjoying.

    And it's much better than WoW's method, where we pay so incredibly much to play and can end up with lame-o content for huge swaths of time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    You are likely a fanboy of PoE. It's fine. They can coexist. He didnt say anything about D4 being good or bad. No one knows.
    I hope it is good, as I think with d4 they're opening up more dialogue between the players and they've already made some changes with some of their itemization I think. Haven't kept up too much with it but seeing that sort of conversation between developer and its players is really good imo.

    I think that kind of communication is necessary in these sorts of online games, WoW developers should take note. Any kind of GaaS games should.

  12. #652
    Epic! Fid's Avatar
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    Was this game made by a team of 40? I've read/heard this, but it sounds incredible.

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by Fid View Post
    Was this game made by a team of 40? I've read/heard this, but it sounds incredible.
    39 according to their linkedin page

  14. #654
    Not bad, I see potential in this game, but as now I don't recommend people buying this, too many bugs, the game should still have the beta tag, I decided to keep the game and not get a refund as I see potential, overall I would give this game 3.5/10 and wait for the future updates and fixes, i will stick with d3 as my arpg game

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelix1 View Post
    Not bad, I see potential in this game, but as now I don't recommend people buying this, too many bugs, the game should still have the beta tag, I decided to keep the game and not get a refund as I see potential, overall I would give this game 3.5/10 and wait for the future updates and fixes, i will stick with d3 as my arpg game
    3.5/10 is a daed gaem score. lol

  16. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    3.5/10 is a daed gaem score. lol
    I'd say the metacritic scores of about 70 is more accurate, it's a good base but needs it's issues fixed. Fixed the issues and you easily have a mid 80s game.

  17. #657
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Mhw isn't some angel, it has 288 bucks worth of mtx, in a paid game.
    I feel like you didn't even attempt to understand the context... nor did you bother to look at what the DLC is since that number includes things like the expansion or different amounts of the same thing...

    And you're trying to say that optional mtx in a free game is some death to the arpg industry.
    Can you show me where I said that?

    If you buy one supporter pack every year or two its no different than any paid game.
    I get way the shit more for my money out of other paid games.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I feel like you didn't even attempt to understand the context... nor did you bother to look at what the DLC is since that number includes things like the expansion or different amounts of the same thing...
    Take 40 bucks out for Iceborne sure, but it's still 248 bucks of cosmetic shit (or character change vouchers) so it's no angel considering it's a PAID game. I'm not saying anything is wrong with cosmetic MTX, but there's definitely a lot there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Can you show me where I said that?
    "I think PoE has the potential to be one of the most damaging games for the community with the precedent its setting."

    Yes, I took it to an extreme, but what you said is very doomsayerish. If anything PoE is considered one of the more fair arpgs on the market because:

    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I get way the shit more for my money out of other paid games.
    I can pay nothing, put no money into it, and get equal or more than another game. PoE is a very full, free to play game, with constant updating (more than most paid games), and i could have played from day one, til now, and not spent a single penny. So yea, I don't mind throwing them 60 bucks every year or two for the time and effort they put into the game. I don't really see it as any different than buying a paid game, except I can play with friends who can't afford things like MHW.

  19. #659
    The Lightbringer Skorpionss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Compared to what?

    Buying the base game for $60 and then paying $30 or whatever every few months for an expansion/DLC? Because that's the alternative (or having nothing at all).

    You don't get stuff for free. SOMEONE needs to pay for it SOMEHOW.
    Yeah I would much rather buy the game and pay like 10-15$ for every season I wanna play, rather than have the best looking armor locked behind a paywall. I hate that business model with a passion. Cosmetics matter damn it and they shouldn't be locked behind paywalls.

  20. #660
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    MHW dropped for 60, was on sale all the time, and still had a year and a half worth of regular content updates for free with minimal mtx for silly emotes and stickers that cost around 3$. They then released an xpac round 2 years later for 40$ that is also getting regular free content updates for the foreseeable future as they always have.

    Thats the kind of developer that should be getting praised. PoEs shop is one of the most egregious Ive seen only to be rivaled by the likes of nexon games.

    It really blows my mind every time that people defend PoEs shop when theyre doing every shitty practice short of outright pay 2 win at astronomical prices.

    I think PoE has the potential to be one of the most damaging games for the community with the precedent its setting. Tyreal forbid that garbage shop finds its way to D4 and other future ARPGs.
    You're ignoring that while others charge for content, PoE doesn't require a dime to play any update they make to the game. Sorry but I have to disagree that PoE implements one of the best F2P models that exist. My only complaint is that the game is somewhat "unplayable" without select stashes that do cost money, I feel the game makes enough on the cosmetics alone but this is only a logical hunch.

    Outside of that it only sucks hard if you truly care about how you look instead of the high progression depth the game has. The fact that the game you set as an example has a cash shop speaks volumes that MTX are here to stay for just about every online game that exists. The only games that don't include MTXs to my memory are single player story/rpg games like Witcher and Obsidian games.

    D4 will come with MTX, it's already confirmed. What maybe deserves more criticism is that D4 is not F2P but I frankly don't care about anything outside of power being sold for real money.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    Yeah I would much rather buy the game and pay like 10-15$ for every season I wanna play, rather than have the best looking armor locked behind a paywall. I hate that business model with a passion. Cosmetics matter damn it and they shouldn't be locked behind paywalls.
    Set the same budget for cosmetics then. F2P without purchasable power is like a "pay what you want" model. You could pay a flat zero or $40 for something you do want. Those with less spending money can enjoy it as much as those that spend shit tons on entertainment.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

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