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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Take 40 bucks out for Iceborne sure, but it's still 248 bucks of cosmetic shit (or character change vouchers) so it's no angel considering it's a PAID game. I'm not saying anything is wrong with cosmetic MTX, but there's definitely a lot there.
    Again... pay attention to the context of the conversation...

    He asked "expensive compared to what?" MHW doesn't make you look like a level 1 RPG character in end game and hold all that shit back from you unless you drop the box price of a AAA game for a single armor set. MHW somehow manages to give free content that is more substantial than what PoE puts out every 3 months and does it without charging insane prices. Which was the point... if you were paying attention.

    Also its more than just the xpac, there's packs in there like the character change vouchers which can be bought individually or in packs... which means you're seeing the price for multiple duplicates... Oh and even then these things go on much better sales than what GGG offers.

    You're really comparing apples to bricks here acting like MHW's 2-4$ MTX which are silly stuff like emotes and stickers for chat are on the same level as PoE's 10$ shitty glow effects and 42 - 84$ armor sets. You wanna tally up PoE's MTX shop and compare if that's the standard you want to use? PoE already more than doubles it with the yearly supporter pack or the 8 league supporter packs per year alone.. add them shits together and you've now quadrupled the price of what's available in MHW's entire MTX shop... and that's not looking at anything else in PoE's shop which will easily add a few thousand more dollars...

    But even more important is that MHW doesn't do ANY of the shit PoE does in their shop. MHW has its lil extra MTX that go up on that shop, there's no randomness to it, they're cheap AF, and they'll always be available to buy at some point.

    PoE on the other hand...

    If you don't drop 960$ a year on supporter packs then whatever you didn't buy is gone forever.

    There's also shit that no one would be ok with in other games like loot boxes with a super shitty duplicate system... GGG expected people TO BUY MORE LOOT BOXES TO DEAL WITH DUPLICATES FROM PREVIOUSLY BOUGHT LOOT BOXES THAT COULD STILL GIVE YOU THE DUPLICATES YOU ALREADY HAVE. PLEASE DEFEND THIS.

    You have to pay money for an item to hide items... as in you have to pay 5$ for literally nothing... Oh and its 5$ per slot if you want to hide things simultaneously.

    If for some reason you ever want to transmog? Its payed and one time use... because that makes perfect sense in a game with leagues where those items are gone in a few months.

    Oh and they regularly drop special effects for whatever skill is OP in a league, space it out so that the better one gets dropped a week or two later for the same skill... and then nerf the ever loving shit out of it to the point where its become a meme so people feel forced to play something else the next league... that they'll absolutely be putting out new special effects for.

    All of which is priced insanely high. Its not even a comparison, PoE's MTX shop is HORRENDOUS and I'll never understand how they managed to brainwash people into defending it. Its a joke to pretend like MHW's shop is anything even remotely similar. You get SO MUCH MORE for your money even without buying it on sale.


    "I think PoE has the potential to be one of the most damaging games for the community with the precedent its setting."

    Yes, I took it to an extreme, but what you said is very doomsayerish. If anything PoE is considered one of the more fair arpgs on the market because:
    It is a bit of doomsaying, because I'm concerned that other games even outside the ARPG genre are gonna try their hardest to figure out how they've managed to make people happy to drop tons of money on all the bullshit they normally scream bloody murder about in any other game and then apply that to their game.

    Seriously, pretend for a millisecond that a dev under EA tried to do exactly what GGG is doing with PoE. Same cycle, F2P, Same MTX Shop to a T... people would lose their minds. It'd be the battlefront 2 outrage combined with the Anthem outrage and then multiplied by 10.

    I can pay nothing, put no money into it, and get equal or more than another game. PoE is a very full, free to play game, with constant updating (more than most paid games), and i could have played from day one, til now, and not spent a single penny. So yea, I don't mind throwing them 60 bucks every year or two for the time and effort they put into the game. I don't really see it as any different than buying a paid game, except I can play with friends who can't afford things like MHW.
    I'll never understand why people think that makes all the shit they do with their shop ok? This is far from the only F2P game on the market and I've never seen another get away with as much shit as PoE. Again, nexon is the only company I've personally experienced that beats GGG in bullshit shops and that's because nexon has pay 2 win in damn near everything. I've personally never seen another company do anything close to what GGG is getting away with and then have people defend it. Its insane.

    Also if your friends can't afford 15$ (40 with the xpac) they've got bigger issues to worry about. And lord help them if they want to play PoE without spending a dime on stash tabs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    Outside of that it only sucks hard if you truly care about how you look instead of the high progression depth the game has.
    I can't begin to overstate just how much people care about cosmetics, you'd be naive to think otherwise. PoE would be out of business if people didn't care.. not to mention how many other games... or how many other just different companies in general since aesthetics are a massive trillion dollar industry across all aspects of our lives.

    Again... one of those things I never understand why people try to underplay. How things look massively affects peoples enjoyment of games and things in general... there's a reason industry spends so much time and money specifically on how things look.

    Including PoE for that matter... PoE 2 would be a fuck shit ton easier to put out if they weren't concerned with updating the graphics.
    Last edited by Baconeggcheese; 2020-02-24 at 01:54 AM.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Again... pay attention to the context of the conversation...

    He asked "expensive compared to what?" MHW doesn't make you look like a level 1 RPG character in end game and hold all that shit back from you unless you drop the box price of a AAA game for a single armor set. MHW somehow manages to give free content that is more substantial than what PoE puts out every 3 months and does it without charging insane prices. Which was the point... if you were paying attention.

    Also its more than just the xpac, there's packs in there like the character change vouchers which can be bought individually or in packs... which means you're seeing the price for multiple duplicates... Oh and even then these things go on much better sales than what GGG offers.

    You're really comparing apples to bricks here acting like MHW's 2-4$ MTX which are silly stuff like emotes and stickers for chat are on the same level as PoE's 10$ shitty glow effects and 42 - 84$ armor sets. You wanna tally up PoE's MTX shop and compare if that's the standard you want to use? PoE already more than doubles it with the yearly supporter pack or the 8 league supporter packs per year alone.. add them shits together and you've now quadrupled the price of what's available in MHW's entire MTX shop... and that's not looking at anything else in PoE's shop which will easily add a few thousand more dollars...

    But even more important is that MHW doesn't do ANY of the shit PoE does in their shop. MHW has its lil extra MTX that go up on that shop, there's no randomness to it, they're cheap AF, and they'll always be available to buy at some point.

    PoE on the other hand...

    If you don't drop 960$ a year on supporter packs then whatever you didn't buy is gone forever.

    There's also shit that no one would be ok with in other games like loot boxes with a super shitty duplicate system... GGG expected people TO BUY MORE LOOT BOXES TO DEAL WITH DUPLICATES FROM PREVIOUSLY BOUGHT LOOT BOXES THAT COULD STILL GIVE YOU THE DUPLICATES YOU ALREADY HAVE. PLEASE DEFEND THIS.

    You have to pay money for an item to hide items... as in you have to pay 5$ for literally nothing... Oh and its 5$ per slot if you want to hide things simultaneously.

    If for some reason you ever want to transmog? Its payed and one time use... because that makes perfect sense in a game with leagues where those items are gone in a few months.

    Oh and they regularly drop special effects for whatever skill is OP in a league, space it out so that the better one gets dropped a week or two later for the same skill... and then nerf the ever loving shit out of it to the point where its become a meme so people feel forced to play something else the next league... that they'll absolutely be putting out new special effects for.

    All of which is priced insanely high. Its not even a comparison, PoE's MTX shop is HORRENDOUS and I'll never understand how they managed to brainwash people into defending it. Its a joke to pretend like MHW's shop is anything even remotely similar. You get SO MUCH MORE for your money even without buying it on sale.


    It is a bit of doomsaying, because I'm concerned that other games even outside the ARPG genre are gonna try their hardest to figure out how they've managed to make people happy to drop tons of money on all the bullshit they normally scream bloody murder about in any other game and then apply that to their game.

    Seriously, pretend for a millisecond that a dev under EA tried to do exactly what GGG is doing with PoE. Same cycle, F2P, Same MTX Shop to a T... people would lose their minds. It'd be the battlefront 2 outrage combined with the Anthem outrage and then multiplied by 10.

    I'll never understand why people think that makes all the shit they do with their shop ok? This is far from the only F2P game on the market and I've never seen another get away with as much shit as PoE. Again, nexon is the only company I've personally experienced that beats GGG in bullshit shops and that's because nexon has pay 2 win in damn near everything. I've personally never seen another company do anything close to what GGG is getting away with and then have people defend it. Its insane.

    Also if your friends can't afford 15$ (40 with the xpac) they've got bigger issues to worry about. And lord help them if they want to play PoE without spending a dime on stash tabs.

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    I can't begin to overstate just how much people care about cosmetics, you'd be naive to think otherwise. PoE would be out of business if people didn't care.. not to mention how many other games... or how many other just different companies in general since aesthetics are a massive trillion dollar industry.

    Again... one of those things I never understand why people try to underplay. How things look massively affects peoples enjoyment of games and things in general... there's a reason industry spends so much time and money specifically on how things look.

    Including PoE for that matter... PoE 2 would be a fuck shit ton easier to put out if they weren't concerned with updating the graphics.
    I've played many many MANY F2P games over the years and Poe is one of the least worrying when it comes to the shop. Most sell power (God some are so bad about it). Only one I can think of off the top of my head that was decent was wildstars shop, and look how that turned out

    But that's probably enough of that, we'll never see eye to eye, you value cosmetics more than me
    Last edited by Onikaroshi; 2020-02-24 at 02:06 AM.

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I've played many many MANY F2P games over the years and Poe is one of the least worrying when it comes to the shop. Most sell power (God some are so bad about it). Only one I can think of off the top of my head that was decent was wildstars shop, and look how that turned out

    But that's probably enough of that, we'll never see eye to eye, you value cosmetics more than me
    But shops that sell power are wildly unpopular... I feel like you continue to not understand whats being said.

    PoE's shop has every bullshit tactic people complain about short of buying power... for insane prices... and people are not only ok with it... they defend it.

    THAT is why its worrying, because they've found a way to make their players happy to be milked for insane amounts of money... and other companies will use that as an example for their games.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  4. #664
    The Lightbringer Skorpionss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    You're ignoring that while others charge for content, PoE doesn't require a dime to play any update they make to the game. Sorry but I have to disagree that PoE implements one of the best F2P models that exist. My only complaint is that the game is somewhat "unplayable" without select stashes that do cost money, I feel the game makes enough on the cosmetics alone but this is only a logical hunch.

    Outside of that it only sucks hard if you truly care about how you look instead of the high progression depth the game has. The fact that the game you set as an example has a cash shop speaks volumes that MTX are here to stay for just about every online game that exists. The only games that don't include MTXs to my memory are single player story/rpg games like Witcher and Obsidian games.

    D4 will come with MTX, it's already confirmed. What maybe deserves more criticism is that D4 is not F2P but I frankly don't care about anything outside of power being sold for real money.

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    Set the same budget for cosmetics then. F2P without purchasable power is like a "pay what you want" model. You could pay a flat zero or $40 for something you do want. Those with less spending money can enjoy it as much as those that spend shit tons on entertainment.
    Did you see what those things cost? They are overpriced as fuck.

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    But shops that sell power are wildly unpopular... I feel like you continue to not understand whats being said.

    PoE's shop has every bullshit tactic people complain about short of buying power... for insane prices... and people are not only ok with it... they defend it.

    THAT is why its worrying, because they've found a way to make their players happy to be milked for insane amounts of money... and other companies will use that as an example for their games.
    Wild unpopular but still incredibly common.

    PoE is one of the few F2P games that doesn't sell power that i've played in a while.

    Also, barely anything in PoE goes away, just the supporter packs which few people buy (who's actually going to spend the max of 480, very few people. 480 btw, not 900 or whatever you said)

    The loot boxes that you brought up? just wait for it, everything will be put into the regular shop anyway. Like I said, I'd rather spend 60 bucks voluntarily then be forced to spend 60 bucks.

  6. #666
    Visual progression is important in RPG. Locking all of it behind super expensive MTXs is kind of a dick move.

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Wild unpopular but still incredibly common.

    PoE is one of the few F2P games that doesn't sell power that i've played in a while.
    Are you ok? I'm speaking plain English and you're responses make it sound like you don't understand the point being made.

    Also, barely anything in PoE goes away, just the supporter packs which few people buy (who's actually going to spend the max of 480, very few people. 480 btw, not 900 or whatever you said)
    Its 480$ for the yearly supporter pack, then its another 120 per league and there's 4 leagues a year which is an additional 480$... for a total of 960$ a year if you don't want to get fucked out of any cosmetics.

    Please pay attention to what the shop is doing before you defend it...

    The loot boxes that you brought up? just wait for it, everything will be put into the regular shop anyway. Like I said, I'd rather spend 60 bucks voluntarily then be forced to spend 60 bucks.
    There shouldn't be lootboxes in the first place. "Just don't engage with it" doesn't make it ok that its there in the first place.

    They have so much egregious nonsense in their shop, there's absolutely no reason they need to do every single bad practice.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  8. #668
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Are you ok? I'm speaking plain English and you're responses make it sound like you don't understand the point being made.

    Its 480$ for the yearly supporter pack, then its another 120 per league and there's 4 leagues a year which is an additional 480$... for a total of 960$ a year if you don't want to get fucked out of any cosmetics.

    Please pay attention to what the shop is doing before you defend it...

    There shouldn't be lootboxes in the first place. "Just don't engage with it" doesn't make it ok that its there in the first place.

    They have so much egregious nonsense in their shop, there's absolutely no reason they need to do every single bad practice.
    We get it, you hate their store.

    It's optional, i don't need to pay for any of it. it's mostly cosmetic. The game itself is 100% playable free and a damn good game to boot.

    I already said we should drop this as I will never agree with you.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    We get it, you hate their store.

    It's optional, i don't need to pay for any of it. it's mostly cosmetic. The game itself is 100% playable free and a damn good game to boot.

    I already said we should drop this as I will never agree with you.
    Yeah that wasn't the point being made but... clearly you're right this is a waste of time.
    "I've carefully played this game to an endless despair"

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Visual progression is important in RPG. Locking all of it behind super expensive MTXs is kind of a dick move.
    In your opinion. I'd rather only have to make purchases if I WANT something and play the game for free otherwise.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    Yeah that wasn't the point being made but... clearly you're right this is a waste of time.
    It's the only point, it's optional MTX, you don't have to pay for it. It doesn't matter if its 10 dollars or 1000 dollars (which they have sold things for). It's not going to ruin your experience playing the game unless you're petty and only care about how "cool" you look and feel like you HAVE to have everything.

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    In your opinion. I'd rather only have to make purchases if I WANT something and play the game for free otherwise.

    - - - Updated - - -



    It's the only point, it's optional MTX, you don't have to pay for it. It doesn't matter if its 10 dollars or 1000 dollars (which they have sold things for). It's not going to ruin your experience playing the game unless you're petty and only care about how "cool" you look and feel like you HAVE to have everything.
    Wtf 1000$!?

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Wtf 1000$!?
    It was a short lived promotion back in beta and maybe a little into early launch to get a Unique you designed in the game. It's how oni goroshi came to be

  13. #673
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Even in a F2P game 1k for any kind of transaction seems absurd even if it didn't end up happening.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Even in a F2P game 1k for any kind of transaction seems absurd even if it didn't end up happening.
    At least one person thought it was worth it, I personally never would have, but it IS pretty cool to have an item you created permanently in the game.

  15. #675
    Moderator Crissi's Avatar
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    PoE's system is a bit exploitive, as they dont have anything in game that looks good that's free as well as overpricing their stuff. With Wolcen, their transmog system is already damned good so MTX wont feel as necessary, although I still hope they add some minor improvements to the free stuff like spell effect looks on weapons.

    Oh, and please no lootbox. Lootbox is bad because it basically triggers gambling brian issues. Buying what you want directly is always better.

    With how often ARPGs need new content / seasons, Id rather they fund it through MTX than pay 15$ every time. Makes it available to more people.

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    PoE's system is a bit exploitive, as they dont have anything in game that looks good that's free as well as overpricing their stuff. With Wolcen, their transmog system is already damned good so MTX wont feel as necessary, although I still hope they add some minor improvements to the free stuff like spell effect looks on weapons.

    Oh, and please no lootbox. Lootbox is bad because it basically triggers gambling brian issues. Buying what you want directly is always better.

    With how often ARPGs need new content / seasons, Id rather they fund it through MTX than pay 15$ every time. Makes it available to more people.
    I'm weird, I actually LIKE loot boxes. I don't spend money on them, but I like getting random shit.

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    Did you see what those things cost? They are overpriced as fuck.
    Then don't buy some overpriced wings. Don't buy sets or effects directly if cost is an issue. Those league supporter packs give you almost the same value of in-game currency as it's price so you get a full set for effectively free. That is the only way I spent money on PoE.

    I find it hard to complain about a cosmetic shop when they regularly provide free leagues, game changing expansions and soon to be an entirely new game for zero cost. When 3.0 released, it blew me away the rework they did for the game without a paywall while D3 wants $10 to play a new class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    PoE's system is a bit exploitive, as they dont have anything in game that looks good that's free as well as overpricing their stuff. With Wolcen, their transmog system is already damned good so MTX wont feel as necessary, although I still hope they add some minor improvements to the free stuff like spell effect looks on weapons.

    Oh, and please no lootbox. Lootbox is bad because it basically triggers gambling brian issues. Buying what you want directly is always better.

    With how often ARPGs need new content / seasons, Id rather they fund it through MTX than pay 15$ every time. Makes it available to more people.
    The biggest issue with PoE's lootboxes are duplicates and it would be nice if we can mulch them for the shop coins.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  18. #678
    Well, a conclusion can be drawn, that people who think Wolcen is worth “7 or 8” out of ten have a very peculiar mindset. The one, that keeps them in denial that Poe is an objectively better game. Well, to be fair even diablo is an objectively better game.

    RPGs live and die tied to the amount of content they offer. Desire to look pretty is not bad, but your Barbie simulators are a bit of a different genre.

    So Wolcen is a bit of miss of an rpg currently, outside it’s 3 acts and a couple hours of fresh gear loop getting to lvl 60.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Tang0 View Post
    Well, a conclusion can be drawn, that people who think Wolcen is worth “7 or 8” out of ten have a very peculiar mindset. The one, that keeps them in denial that Poe is an objectively better game. Well, to be fair even diablo is an objectively better game.

    RPGs live and die tied to the amount of content they offer. Desire to look pretty is not bad, but your Barbie simulators are a bit of a different genre.

    So Wolcen is a bit of miss of an rpg currently, outside it’s 3 acts and a couple hours of fresh gear loop getting to lvl 60.
    I'm confused. Is this the norm now? Do people really expect and want the "perpetual" content design? I want or expect about 20 hours of real solid content from any game at this point. Double that if you're completionist. It's a good day when I get a game that has content on the level of something like mass effect, dragon age, skyrim, fallout 4, witcher 3, etc. Those games are obvious gold standards, but I'd rather have a game with more enjoyable content that wraps up in even 10 hours than some game that drones on with "repetitive' autogenerated garbage for 100.

    That's my least favorite part about PoE. The combat is lacking for <reasons> compared to so many other games, so the only thing LEFT is to grind maps or delve in search of that 0.5% meaningless increase in damage.

  20. #680
    Cosmetics is tied to progression. Imagine if you can play WoW for free but you don't get any of the cool armors/weapons looks and shiny mounts by playing the game. Each of them then is sold seperately for 40$+. I would take the current WoW over that shit.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2020-02-24 at 10:02 AM.

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