WOLCEN : Lords of Mayhem (Indie ARPG)

[Onikaroshi]

I'm perfectly fine with people being entertained by what they are entertained by, but what I'm not fine with is telling people "this is why the game sucks to me" followed by "these are facts about how the system works" and then having them try to convince me the game doesn't work the way I KNOW it does.

Liking an endless grind of easy combat is fine. Don't try to tell me that's not what it is, though. The combat never gets more complex than facerolling and the main reasons people play it are chasing loot and upgrades, which are notably two things I absolutely HATE in any game I play. I get it. I really do, just stop trying to tell me the game is deeper than that.

Also, stop trying to tell me that repeating the same thing over and over again on the loop of "get gear -> kill bigger numbered (hp and dmg) enemies -> repeat" is actual content. It's the same 5 minutes of content over and over again. Just because you have a reason to repeat it doesn't change the fact it's non-novel stuff. Novel content is the only actual true content as far as games go.

TL;DR 1 hour of content repeated 500 times is still 1 hour of content. 10 hours of novel content that isn't repeatable at all is still better than that 500 hours for me.

Well i mean it IS content, it's just not content you like, which is fine. Just how like Pet Battles in wow is content, but general not something I do so it's not really content for me.

And yea, PoE combat isn't complex, it's generally just spamming or holding down a button (love me some cyclone), where the complexity comes in is actually building the character. Sure you can follow a guide but you can also do it yourself.

[Tang0]

I tried Whirlwind right now, it doesn't seem to work like BE does.
It seems like half the skill runes don't work or something.

I meant that most of the same nodes and passives apply to them both. When my BE rotations were doing 300k crits my whirlwind crits were somewhere around 120k. But the mobility and the sustain, plus a full circle hitbox as opposite to the axes felt like it equalized the two skills. For me at least.

[KrayZ33]

I meant that most of the same nodes and passives apply to them both. When my BE rotations were doing 300k crits my whirlwind crits were somewhere around 120k. But the mobility and the sustain, plus a full circle hitbox as opposite to the axes felt like it equalized the two skills. For me at least.

hmmm I don't know, you move around the map faster with shield charge and stuff and at some point in time, you have to recast it. At least I did because I got locked out of my Rage bar (while also having 0 Willpower).
I actually thought that whirlwind would start getting better and better the longer I use it. But I guess I read that skill rune wrong or something. I'm currently not logged in, but I could swear there is a rune that says something along the lines of "increase tick rate for every crit you do". - That doesn't work and it's a shame.

As for the damage, the difference seems to be much greater with my gear.
I'm looking at 40k-80k vs 300-600k and I can burst for a lot more due to having multiple blades with BE. (that's with lvl 58)

I wonder btw, what is a good amount of damage you can get on your 2h (max level gear)
I was lucky enough to get a legendary 2h with 3 damage rolls that maxes out on 600+ damage. For how long will I have that one equipped?

[bloodwulf]

Literally does not matter in the context of this current convo, and I've pushed WAY beyond 60k in the 20 levels and gear optimization I've done since.


Avoid it? Nah. t10 is still pretty high on the list. I've looked at t16 and huge delves, etc, and what I'm saying is there is no appreciable reason to participate in the end-game-grind-train.

The only thing that happens and why you need to optimize further is the numbers get bigger all around. The combat itself doesn't change. There's a reason wow raids between difficulties aren't just "bigger numbers" and why they have actual mechanical differences. PoE lacks that. A t1 map feels exactly like a t10 map if you have the same proportion of gear, levels, and optimization. That's the issue here. The combat never changes. It's just pushing numbers higher for the sake of pushing numbers higher. It's like doing wow world quests. Every xpac they feel the same, but boy did your numbers go up, so that's progression, right!?!

Again you are being disingenuous. You literally can not compare any ARPG to a game like WOW. Any ARPG is largely going to turn into a number push game in the end, this applies to Diablo 3, POE, Diablo 2, and I am going to assume Wolcen but not at end game. Also if you want mechanically dense fights in ARPG, POE has them, Uber Elder and Awakener are two examples, later delve bosses are examples. You will not find a true 6+ rotation depth in any ARPG because the game is paced for you to kill screens full of enemies quickly, not 1-3 enemies at a time. You are literally in the wrong genre. You are essentially complaining Jazz music doesn't have enough death growls.

[Tang0]

I was (still am) sitting at a cool 66 BPM as I wrote that post. Getting angry over a dumb post on the internet isn't worth my time.

I grew up with demos. Which aren't as necessary in this day and age as I explain a little further below.

It's crazy how you assume so much about a person, whereas I reference the way one thinks.

It's also crazy how you make excuses for pirating in a world where despite every game not having as many demos as before - consists of many livestreams, reviewers, online websites, databases, forums, opinions to form a conclusion about whether a product would be for you without having to purchase it nor play it. Unless you literally cannot form whether you should purchase it even with all that info (taking a page from your book).

This entire post of yours here is extremely passive aggressive. But typical from a shit-stain mindset.

Sure you meant growing up with demos and not demons?

First of all, how mental must one be to come to some "conclusion" based on some livestreams and reviewers? Those are only good for maybe sparking some interest in looking into a product. Assuming one consumes that type of content, which, in case, allows me to assume a lot about the person who does.

Second, i guess your point of view about post and opinions and all that jazz only works when it's in your favour, right? Aren't you the one who was foaming at the mouth about all those unjustified review on steam? Hypocrisy much?

And third, i would personally refrain from personal attacks or insults, mindset or not, but I guess that type of thinking does not apply to you. Probably picked yours from some edgy streamer or reviewer?

[BeepBoo]

where the complexity comes in is actually building the character. Sure you can follow a guide but you can also do it yourself.

Agreed! This is where PoE shines, and the absolute best thing about it for me. The diversity of builds among my group of 6 that plays it right now is HUGE and we're all still effective. It's really cool to dream up stuff.

If half the nodes weren't broken in wolcen, I feel like there exists some of that complexity as well, which makes me hopeful. PoE was pretty bland and garbo when it first came out as well, so lets see what wolcen can do with a few more years under its belt. They already shattered expectations with how much more the game has than what they were showing in the early access.

[Onikaroshi]

Agreed! This is where PoE shines, and the absolute best thing about it for me. The diversity of builds among my group of 6 that plays it right now is HUGE and we're all still effective. It's really cool to dream up stuff.

If half the nodes weren't broken in wolcen, I feel like there exists some of that complexity as well, which makes me hopeful. PoE was pretty bland and garbo when it first came out as well, so lets see what wolcen can do with a few more years under its belt. They already shattered expectations with how much more the game has than what they were showing in the early access.

Yea, you can tell the rushed the last half of the tree.... Lol, that shield build

[FlubberPuddy]

i would personally refrain from personal attacks or insults, mindset or not

Ironic to be sure, considering your post.

[Gref]

holy shit the game is a god send for me.
there is no server issues (for me at least). I am playing with 20ms constant. fps is another thing tho, the lower i put my settings the lower fps i get like wth?
passive skill tree and rune system is great. dont have enough time to read all tho for now. I am just going for full life steal wherever i see a node.
to the people saying untargettable enemies, the same shit existed in daiblo 1-2-3. always with flyer type enemies. what you do is push SHIFT then Swing your weapon in their direction. It will hit. Dont bother trying to left click, it is not a bug, it is because of angle reasons. it existed in d1 d2 d3.

almost finished act 1 and i am having great time. wish my first purple was something useful tho, not a dagger -.-

do not listen to blizzard shills get this game.

[The Oblivion]

the game is a dumpster fire, untargetable enemies IS A BUG, and the devs have spoken on it. wait for it to be on sale for 7.99 in a month lol dont listen to wolcels.

[Onikaroshi]

Read the pcgamer review, seemed pretty fair, buggy game with a great base that just needs fixes, gave it a 58 which again, seemed fair with all the issues.

[Majestic12]

holy shit the game is a god send for me.
there is no server issues (for me at least). I am playing with 20ms constant. fps is another thing tho, the lower i put my settings the lower fps i get like wth?
passive skill tree and rune system is great. dont have enough time to read all tho for now. I am just going for full life steal wherever i see a node.
to the people saying untargettable enemies, the same shit existed in daiblo 1-2-3. always with flyer type enemies. what you do is push SHIFT then Swing your weapon in their direction. It will hit. Dont bother trying to left click, it is not a bug, it is because of angle reasons. it existed in d1 d2 d3.

almost finished act 1 and i am having great time. wish my first purple was something useful tho, not a dagger -.-

do not listen to blizzard shills get this game.

Why do you have to be so cringy? The unkillable mobs didn't have a hitbox. That was the entire problem, you had some unhittable others not. If you started as ranger with a bow and the stings skill you could not kill them, period.

I love it when newbies show up, play for a few hours and pretend they know everything about the game.

The truth is that the game has been a fucking mess since launch. Don't embarass yourself by trying to lecture others. You know nothing about the game at all.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Why do you have to be so cringy? The unkillable mobs didn't have a hitbox. That was the entire problem, you had some unhittable others not. If you started as ranger with a bow and the stings skill you could not kill them, period.

I love it when newbies show up, play for a few hours and pretend they know everything about the game.

The truth is that the game has been a fucking mess since launch. Don't embarass yourself by trying to lecture others. You know nothing about the game at all.

Bugs aren't entirely universal either, some people just don't experience them.

[Onikaroshi]

Why do you have to be so cringy? The unkillable mobs didn't have a hitbox. That was the entire problem, you had some unhittable others not. If you started as ranger with a bow and the stings skill you could not kill them, period.

I love it when newbies show up, play for a few hours and pretend they know everything about the game.

The truth is that the game has been a fucking mess since launch. Don't embarass yourself by trying to lecture others. You know nothing about the game at all.

I was able to kill them with a ranger, it's a pain in the ass, but you can. They have a hitbox, they HAVE to have a hitbox otherwise you can't hit them. Where that hitbox is i have no clue, because it's not something you could click on lol

[Majestic12]

I was able to kill them with a ranger, it's a pain in the ass, but you can. They have a hitbox, they HAVE to have a hitbox otherwise you can't hit them. Where that hitbox is i have no clue, because it's not something you could click on lol

If you could hit them you had non-bugged ones. The real bugged ones had a hit hitbox where you could not hit them with autos or projectiles. You had to be a mage or a warrior with AoE to damage them.

[Onikaroshi]

If you could hit them you had non-bugged ones. The real bugged ones had a hit hitbox where you could not hit them with autos or projectiles. You had to be a mage or a warrior with AoE to damage them.

I did have that rain of arrows spell at that point, so maybe that did it.

[Majestic12]

I did have that rain of arrows spell at that point, so maybe that did it.

Yeah that spell solves all problems.

[Edge-]

I love it when newbies show up, play for a few hours and pretend they know everything about the game.

The truth is that the game has been a fucking mess since launch. Don't embarass yourself by trying to lecture others. You know nothing about the game at all.

Or, not everyone has experienced these bugs. I've seen some, but largely I haven't run into anything significant/meaningful since picking it up last week. I know these issues exist, but they haven't affected me personally so my view is likely more positive overall.

On the untargatable thing, is that when you can't specifically mouse over enemies? Because I run into that one pretty often, actually, and it's annoying. Shift clicking with attack or using more general AoE attacks seems to solve the problem as a stop-gap, but if there's more serious bugs on that I haven't run into those.

Other people have different experiences, and that's fine.

[Majestic12]

Or, not everyone has experienced these bugs. I've seen some, but largely I haven't run into anything significant/meaningful since picking it up last week. I know these issues exist, but they haven't affected me personally so my view is likely more positive overall.

On the untargatable thing, is that when you can't specifically mouse over enemies? Because I run into that one pretty often, actually, and it's annoying. Shift clicking with attack or using more general AoE attacks seems to solve the problem as a stop-gap, but if there's more serious bugs on that I haven't run into those.

Other people have different experiences, and that's fine.

What set me off is the "it's not a bug lol use shift" and "the ignore all the haters" bit. The game has been a complete shitshow. It's fine if his experience is flawless, but I do mind when he tries to lecture others and show up with a dismissive attitude.

Mousing over them is part of the issue, yes. Their hitbox doesn't seem to exist in a "normal" spot so unless you have specific AoE attacks, it is as if the mob has no hitbox at all. The specific mob type is the bat that exist in caves. First thing that happened to me was that I had 3 blue ones chasing me around that were all unhittable with the basic ranger skills.

[endersblade]

So I kinda jumped on the meme train and switched specs to Bleeding Edge/Bladestorm from the mage build I was running. Started having a MUCH easier time clearing, and got up to Veteran 50 or so. Then, completely randomly, I came back to town from an expedition and lost ALL of my +Crit damage...it literally dropped back down to the default 100%. I then spent almost an hour trying everything I could to fix it, and in the end I found out that unequipping my weapon would bring it back...for all that that's worth. Doesn't matter the weapon, either. If my hands are empty, I get all of my +Crit damage. If I equip a weapon, any at all, it all goes away. I reported it and posted about it on the forums.

This completely fucked my build. And so far, it's permanent. I'm playing offline, btw. I logged in today and it's still a problem...looks like I'll have to reroll. At least I don't have to go through the Campaign again.