Is DH raid tanking as bad as everyone says it is?

[Lilly32]

Seems like every review I can find comparing tanks or talking about tank specs has DH dead last when it comes to raid tanking and from what they say its not even close. So is it really that bad and if it is why would Blizzard design a tank class no one wants? I mean are we talking Vanilla Prot Pally bad?

[Nestalim]

Yup it is really the worst right now. But it is not unplayable. The lack of mitigation is the real issue and nothing will fix it if Blizzard doesn't do somehting about it.

[Deleted]

-snip-
/10char

[Scrysis]

Seems like every review I can find comparing tanks or talking about tank specs has DH dead last when it comes to raid tanking and from what they say its not even close. So is it really that bad and if it is why would Blizzard design a tank class no one wants? I mean are we talking Vanilla Prot Pally bad?

None of the tanks are going to be vanilla prot pally bad. Nothing these days is tuned that badly.

[Stacie]

I seem to be sitting at lower HP than other tanks in mythic for the majority of the time. But, i have managed to keep self alive after healer is dead and finish off a couple of boss's. Would not say we are trash just not brilliant.

[Maylander]

You can't do mythic progression raiding as one. That's about it. All other content is fine.

[libab01]

DH is good enough for raiding and pretty good for M+

[Tech614]

Yup it is really the worst right now.

Based off what?

You watched a Sco video that applies to literally sub 0.1% of the player base?

If you aren't world top 100 those rankings literally mean jack shit to you.

VDH is in a good spot for raid tanking right now, middle of the pack. Being top tier for dungeons makes the spec really balanced. Brewmaster is also in a decent spot with being top tier for raids and middle of the pack for dungeons. I would say both are the top tank specs in the game overall right now. Guardian is pure ass at dungeons, and BDK is even more reliant on haste then VDH is so they're gonna be kind of meh for a tier or so. Wars are just bad all around and Paladins are either OP or Shit on a situation to situation basis.

[Lucrece]

Demon Spikes needs higher uptime....

[Orloth]

You watched a Sco video that applies to literally sub 0.1% of the player base?

Basically this. The tanks are balanced close enough together so that they can all do just about any content. Demon Hunters can tank Mythic raids just fine.

Now, if you are tanking Mythic Raids the first week they are out, and are therefore pretty undergeared for the content, some cracks start to show. World first guilds pick the tanks (and their whole comp really) based on what performs best under that extreme level of pressure, and BM's ability to smooth out damage is going to be better than Vengeance's or Blood's self healing. If you are learning the fights and gearing up at a more normal pace, you'll be just fine with anything, and you'll be better served learning your class better than rerolling.

[Marrilaife]

No it's not, it's in the top 3 with pala and monk.

Kinda doubt it.

For raiding what matters the most is that the tank is good damage sponge (can soak lots of damage before dropping over) and maybe that they can do lots of dps while surviving.

For m+ what matters the most is utility / cc and dps (mostly aoe). DHs are very good at that.

In the first category though druids and monks will be best, because they're the best at soaking damage without dying. Tank healing is more abundant in raid scenario, so being "mana sponge" is not a problem, problem is dying in 3 seconds.

In m+ you often have option to kite instead of soak damage so tanks with better kiting tools can afford to have more scarce defenses.

Anyway no class is gonna be "vanilla level unviable", picking a class is more about "having an easier life" than "viable / unviable" binary choice.

[Tech614]

problem is dying in 3 seconds.

As someone who actually raid tested mythic on the beta, if you died in 3 seconds in any tank spec you fucked up. Nice hyperbole though, the tank damage really isn't bursty at all and all tank specs have a shit load of EH compared to the damage that comes in.

The top of the line progression guilds will favor brewmaster and gaurdian as MTs for the start not because of their DR, but because their damage in take is consistent and that helps healers when you're doing undergeared progression. If mitigation itself was important Wars and Protadins would be the dominant tanks as they have flat out the best mitigation in the game. But that's not what it's about, the brewmaster and guardian are always going to take the same damage every time at the same times. That helps progression when you are racing for it.

Tank balance was actually really good on the BFA beta at the end. All tanks should have decent coverage in mythic raids. Not all tanks will be chosen to be the world first best choice, but nobody on this forum has to care about that or they wouldn't be asking for advice on this forum about it to begin with. People at that level do their own theory crafting and don't rely on wowhead guides or mmo-champ.

[Marrilaife]

As someone who actually raid tested mythic on the beta, if you died in 3 seconds in any tank spec you fucked up. Nice hyperbole though, the tank damage really isn't bursty at all and all tank specs have a shit load of EH compared to the damage that comes in.

Yeah cuz start of expansion burst is always toned down and healing is also toned down. Then it starts showing its ugly head. I played prot pala first half of Legion and it was fine even though it wasn't OP as pre-ignore-pain-nerf warrior or still-having-mark-of-ursol druid, so yeah you could play a weaker tank and manage. And then we went into tomb, then antorus, and it was basically druid / monk / dk or bust.

I'm really worried it's gonna be the same story again, because it repeated every single expansion I raided, since wotlk. First tier - burst is controlled and healing is low, healers can pace themselves and don't have to spam heal and top everyone off immediately. By the time we reach the last tier, healers rarely if ever oom, spam like no tomorrow, and every ability chunks raid to low hp or even one shots without raid cds, depending. On bosses like mythic Aggramar I could die from normal melee attacks + gripped add explosion in 3 seconds if I would not death strike within that window. That's counting no mistakes (bone shield upkept, taunt swapping done at correct amount of stacks, ams-ing the moment add is gonna be gripped in, using armor trinket when actively tanking, etc.). And dks were actually on the strong side of tanks. I really wonder how people managed with paladin or dh there (assuming they didn't have to play dk for massgrip anyway).

The only difference for BFA is you can't really funnel all gear to dps at the expense of tanks / healers early on progression due to master looter removal. So you don't have to pick a tank that can function still while completely undergeared. Also if you aren't going for week 1-2 progression mythic+ is a thing and gear helps a lot.

On a side note, I still hate stuff like fiery brand and demo shout (for warrior) is on gcd. I can understand offensive cooldowns like pala wings or warrior's avatar. But defensives on gcd? That's just making your life harder for no particular tradeoff.

[daiceman]

The only difference for BFA is you can't really funnel all gear to dps at the expense of tanks / healers early on progression due to master looter removal. So you don't have to pick a tank that can function still while completely undergeared. Also if you aren't going for week 1-2 progression mythic+ is a thing and gear helps a lot.

That is something most people looking at tank rankings skimp over. The world first guys are ranking how well the classes will perform with 0 raid gear as they're assuming all the loot is funneled to DPS.

Vengeance scaled ridiculously well with gear, and I would imagine it staying that way for us in BFA. So while veng isn't going to be the class of choice for top guilds, it will be perfectly fine for the rest of the mythic raiding guilds.

[Clozer]

That is something most people looking at tank rankings skimp over. The world first guys are ranking how well the classes will perform with 0 raid gear as they're assuming all the loot is funneled to DPS.

Vengeance scaled ridiculously well with gear, and I would imagine it staying that way for us in BFA. So while veng isn't going to be the class of choice for top guilds, it will be perfectly fine for the rest of the mythic raiding guilds.

you are so wrong. What was the first mythic argus kill with a vengeance? rank 50? So that guy will already have everything bis because it is already 8+ ids in. And yet he has to use special trinkets to help him soak basic abilites, cause vengeance mitigation just sucks.

On the other hand you can just play brewmaster/guardian and do anything a dh can just without the fear of constantly dieing. This will help your guild as well and makes it more fun for your healers.

[Tech614]

Yeah cuz start of expansion burst is always toned down

lol no, Ursoc on mythic literally had 100x the burst damage of any boss in Uldir(that was tested anyways). It was plain and obvious the second you got to Ursoc the large gap in tank balance legion had even early on.

That's not really the case for BFA.

Also still kind of laughing at other people comparing it to legion tanking in general when the VDH kit was literally changed to scale better in raid situations. It's not even close to being the same thing. I doubt these people even played VDH when it actually was BAD, aka release of trial of valor when they nerfed DS all the way up until they revamped spirit bomb which served as a decent band aid+mastery scaling finally caught up getting us back to pre nerf DS levels.

[A Chozo]

No, people are reeeeeeeeeeally dramatic.

Look, there are two weird specs currently in-game: Shadow Priests and Elemental Shamans. Everything else works, except in high-end Mythic Raiding - which none of the players complaining will ever reach.

The spec is fine. Metawhores are being dramatic.

[Rhaxus]

No, people are reeeeeeeeeeally dramatic.

Look, there are two weird specs currently in-game: Shadow Priests and Elemental Shamans. Everything else works, except in high-end Mythic Raiding - which none of the players complaining will ever reach.

The spec is fine. Metawhores are being dramatic.

you forgot feral druids

[Lilly32]

you forgot feral druids

but I love being behind the tanks for damage lol.

[RobertMugabe]

Seems like every review I can find comparing tanks or talking about tank specs has DH dead last when it comes to raid tanking and from what they say its not even close. So is it really that bad and if it is why would Blizzard design a tank class no one wants? I mean are we talking Vanilla Prot Pally bad?

How so? I've only heard good Things about DH tanks.