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  1. #1

    Question How to Even Break into Raiding? Without Signing up for a Raiding Guild?

    Even as heals, I can't even secure a spot on raid group; either I'm not as well geared as the other healers (who have ascended/all the right sigils and runes) or I face a catch twenty-two situation where I need a Forsaken Thicket mastery... that can only be earned by raiding Forsaken Thicket (which is impossible since I have yet to have slain a boss).

    Here's how it goes:

    I sign up for a raid, get kicked until a raid keeps me.

    Raid leader PMs me and asks which classes I have, I tell them I have heal/boon & condi engineer build and heal druid, tells me to switch to druid even though my heal engineer is BY FAR the best equipped (orange-yellows with full engineer rune set and optimal stats for build) but nevermind that I'm told, go Druid or go home.

    Gets into raid, spends thirty minutes to an hour waiting for pull.

    Pull eventually does happen, I toss Wisp onto boss and start auto-attacking while positioning myself so the most amount of people get healed. Put up force wall on boss when projectiles fly out, and teleport to downed players to help rez (which is apparently something I'm NOT supposed to do as heals? Am I saving people or not?). Save vine for when debuffs need to be cleansed or CC barrage, and pop Avatar once I've refreshed wisp/vine. Using glyph of healing (because it's AoE and benefits from druid traits, but I suspect going spirit build with spirit heal would be much, much better). Using spirit ultimate for additional healing and for emergency rez.

    We wipe, group leaders start inspecting people and looking for the weak link, and it comes down to me. "Why don't you have Forest Thicket Waters?" ... "Because I haven't killed a boss yet" I reply. "Well, sorry, we're gonna have to cut you." Another group: "Why are you wearing yellows and blues? Why are you using the Adventurer rune set?" ... "Because that's the best I have (crafting is a migraine and outrageously expensive (or time consuming, if you farm mats yourself) to level up... and isn't this supposed to be a game where gear doesn't matter?" ... "Sorry mate, we're gonna have to cut you."

    So apparently my options are to either spend an indeterminate amount of time playing a game in a way that's not fun just to get "the best gear" (despite the game supposedly not being about a treadmill), or I have to get a trait so I can raid that can only be obtained by... raiding. Starting my own PuG only ends with either the group not forming in a decent time (people leaving before it's fully formed or can't get "the right roles" according to the party chat) or me planning like an idiot because apparently the guides don't tell you everything (and if I give someone else leadership I pretty much go back to the initial problem).

    I'm genuinely confused about this.

    Some help please?

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - Druid / Steam / MyAnimeList / IMDB - - - - - - - - - - - -

  2. #2
    Deleted
    in the open world and dungeons, gear doesn't really matter that much. However, raids are on an entirely different level. They were ment to be challenging rather than a faceroll like every other instanced content in this game. Some people go through raids with ease, but that's also usually the people that are part of the raiding guilds and only raid with specific people rather than pugs. most pugs have a difficult time fully perfecting the mechanics. which means pug groups would rely a lot more on gear in order to afford the hits and misses they suffer from.

    Last I heard anything about it, raids were created with full exotic geared players in mind. But the ascended cushion does help, and can mean a lot when it comes down to seconds left on the timer.

    The game doesn't have a gear treadmill like in other mmo's where grinding for gear is its main grasp on a steady playerbase. But that doesn't mean that gear doesn't matter. Once you have ascended gear you are basically set for life. So naturally it should be hard to obtain.
    Last edited by mmoc30ed4cc660; 2016-04-23 at 06:44 AM.

  3. #3
    You should try and get kitted out with at least exotics. Shouldn't cost more than 2g or 3g per piece. Also, the ascended trinkets are relatively cheap if you get them with laurels.

  4. #4
    It sounds like you have run into a common issue with PUGs in general in any game, including WoW which people expect you to be decked out and know all the bosses. It's not really a GW2 problem but a problem in general in gaming PUGs.

    Ascended gear is not required, the raids were tuned around having some ascended gear. You can easily do it without if you are good enough (I've done fractal level 39 with zero AR with mastery work gear greens). With that being said you should at least have all exotics since it's super easy to get and grab some easy ascended gear like rings and accessories and just have a long term goal for armor and weapons.

    You should also look up fights before hand just to know the mechanics. Now if you want to get into a raiding guild in general the main site has a sub section for that I believe.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

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  5. #5
    The Lightbringer barackopala's Avatar
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    You could get carried by a group but it depends on wether the group is good or not, for example i raid on a very tight group in EG, we recently did the sabetha last cannon achievement just for the sake of it and after we were done i realized i had no rings on my character, meaning that i was losing a lot of good stats (which would pretty much equalize me to a exotic geared character) yet we managed to do the encounter even with 1 guy dead.

    You can be carried by your group even with mediocre/exotic gear, but the stress will be put towards you pushing the limits of your class and your team knowing what to do, it's not just getting into it, also i recommend joining a guild with some pedigree in raiding, some of them have training nights for certain bosses (sometimes leading to kills) and that will get you noticed and allow you into more dedicated groups (which was my situation upon my first arrival at EG, did a training run with some guys and we got matthias on my 3rd try ever, got along with the guys and now i'm part of a tight raiding group).

    I'd recommend you checking EG guides on the bossfights, they are EXTREMELY detailed on what each boss do.
    Cod has a new campaign, new weapons, new multiplayer levels every year. Zelda has been recycling the same weapons, villains, and dungeons since the 80's. Zelda recycles enough to make cod blush. The same weapons, villains, dungeons, and princess in every single Zelda for the most part. It's almost as cheesy as bowser vs Mario round 35

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    It sounds like you have run into a common issue with PUGs in general in any game, including WoW which people expect you to be decked out and know all the bosses. It's not really a GW2 problem but a problem in general in gaming PUGs.
    It's why I never really raided in any of the games, other than Wrath era WoW when I was in a guild that supported it. I do fine with mechanics and stuff, but I really don't feel like a job interview for a game.

    Ascended gear is not required, the raids were tuned around having some ascended gear. You can easily do it without if you are good enough (I've done fractal level 39 with zero AR with mastery work gear greens). With that being said you should at least have all exotics since it's super easy to get and grab some easy ascended gear like rings and accessories and just have a long term goal for armor and weapons.
    While I agree, it is worth noting that his original character does have mostly exotics, it was the lesser geared druid they told him to switch to that was badly geared.

    If nothing else, look at Temple gear for karma, it's not like there's much to use karma on...
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  7. #7
    Materials are neither particularly difficult nor particularly expensive to get ahold of... and the new daily completionist gives 2G/day, so that should help a lot.

    If there are specific materials you're having an issue finding, tell me what you're looking for and I'll give you how I go about getting them.

    As Svifnymr said, you can spend karma at the temples in Orr to get full exotic sets. They cost a decent chunk of karma, but if you're not working on a legendary you don't really have much else you need to do with karma (and if getting to full exotic gear is an issue, you should probably focus on that before going for a legendary).

    *shrug* Raids are the one place where gear actually does matter, but it's still not a vertical progression like WoW. Once you've got the gear, you've got it and don't need to worry about anymore.

    If it's just leveling the professions that's an issue, let me know... sadly, I don't have a leathworker (which makes getting you medium armor harder), but I have a Tailor, an Armorsmith, an Artificer, a jeweler, and a Weaponsmith at 400+ that could make you any exotic gear you need. Just PM me here and we can meet up in game (your materials... I'm working on Incinerator so all of my mats are going into that, but again, if you're short I'll gladly point you in the right direction).

    Runes are pretty much just something you need to buy, but there are usually cheaper alternatives you can find to the super expensive ones everyone uses.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    It sounds like you have run into a common issue with PUGs in general in any game, including WoW which people expect you to be decked out and know all the bosses. It's not really a GW2 problem but a problem in general in gaming PUGs.
    This is absolutely 100% true!
    Most PuGs in any MMO (even PuGs for dungeons) will require you to bring not only the best gear, but also your best game (or, to state it even clearer, the level of skill they perceive as your best game) and since skill can't be measured easily, they will require you to show that you're experienced in some way.

    Are the selection methods used by PuGs fair? No, not really.
    Are the selection methods used by PuGs even somewhat efficient in separating good players from bad players?
    Well, that depends on the PuG you encounter, but a lot of the selection methods I've read about are either easily circumvented or based entirely on faulty logic ("players are required to wear ascended, because ascended guarantees skill and experience"), so the outcome is usually shady at best.
    Are PuGs going to use these selection methods despite the things I previously mentioned? Definitely!
    And there's nothing you can do to change their minds about it.

    What can you do to break into raiding without finding a guild to back you up (guilds are usually more lenient if you're a beginner/still learning)?
    Well, you could try to live up to their standards and get every piece of gear/achievement/consumable/currency/etc. that they ask for.
    This will be quite difficult since you're trying to catch up with a system that has been around for months which is still growing and expanding, but it's your only choice if you want to join those groups and stay with them (it's their group, so their rules).
    You could also run your own group (as you've already tried), but that obviously requires (to some extent) knowledge about not only your role, but also the role of other players in your raid, as well as knowledge about the bosses, which you somewhat lack at this moment (if I've read that part correctly).
    Another option would be to join a group that provides practice runs for newer players.
    These groups are usually run by guilds (not PuGs) to teach initiates to raiding how to raid, but are not that easy to find if you don't know where to look (hint: there's a part of the official forum dedicated to group content (dungeons, fractals and raids)).
    You could join one of these groups to get you started.
    You could also ask (if you have at least one friend that raids on a regular basis) if (s)he could aid you with organizing and running a raid group, since (s)he might have (some of) the required knowledge to run a raid group, while you still get the chance to actually pull your weight and learn a thing or two about leading a raid.
    Those last two would, of course, not be necessary if you could find and join a guild, since that is what most raiding guilds should do.

    Anyways, If you're planning on doing raids through PuGs in the future, you should prepare yourself the best you can (which means exotic/ascended gear with at least decent runes/sigils for every character you want to raid with) and be willing to dedicate a lot of time and effort to it, because raiding with PuG is probably one of the most difficult roads to raiding you can take.
    If you're not willing to put in that amount of effort, you can always try to join a guild that promotes raid education, but you will have to look for those extensively (if you don't have any friends in raiding guilds, at least).

  9. #9
    Wait, your best gearset is oranges and yellows? You are absolutely nowhere near on a level where you can expect to pug raids successfully. Your gear's practically toilet paper. As a rule of thumb, raids generally expect people to have full Ascended weapons and trinkets and full exotic armor with optimal runes, or better. Go and complete your Yggdrasil collection or your Fix'r'upper collection, do some dungeons to push all your armor slots up to Exotic, do some fractals or living story achievements to fill your accessories with Ascended pieces. Buy your Amulet either by completing the Order collection (I think this gives you a healing necky) or by buying them from laurels or from doing living story achieves.

    If you don't want to join a guild for this content you're missing the point if you don't know exactly what you're doing while pugging. This content is supposed to be hard and you're supposed to know your chops when you do it.

    And 'gear doesn't matter' isn't the intent, the intent is that once you reach the gear cap it's not then raised
    Last edited by LilSaihah; 2016-04-24 at 08:21 PM.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    Wait, your best gearset is oranges and yellows? You are absolutely nowhere near on a level where you can expect to pug raids successfully. Your gear's practically toilet paper. As a rule of thumb, raids generally expect people to have full Ascended weapons and trinkets and full exotic armor with optimal runes, or better. Go and complete your Yggdrasil collection or your Fix'r'upper collection, do some dungeons to push all your armor slots up to Exotic, do some fractals or living story achievements to fill your accessories with Ascended pieces. Buy your Amulet either by completing the Order collection (I think this gives you a healing necky) or by buying them from laurels or from doing living story achieves.

    If you don't want to join a guild for this content you're missing the point if you don't know exactly what you're doing while pugging. This content is supposed to be hard and you're supposed to know your chops when you do it.

    And 'gear doesn't matter' isn't the intent, the intent is that once you reach the gear cap it's not then raised
    You are actually fine with just full exotics. Rare gear has slightly lower stats than exotic and I mean slightly. It's not a huge gap. Ascended accessories are not hard to get though so you should have those regardless tbh.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    You are actually fine with just full exotics. Rare gear has slightly lower stats than exotic and I mean slightly. It's not a huge gap. Ascended accessories are not hard to get though so you should have those regardless tbh.
    It's more for the sake of pug protection, when it comes down to pointing fingers they'll always keep the guy with ascended over the guy with exos even if it's armor

    Rare gear is just taking the piss
    Last edited by LilSaihah; 2016-04-25 at 01:15 AM.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer barackopala's Avatar
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    Ideally for raiding begginers it'd be at least exotic gear (you should be crafting ascended or getting it through fotm/tequatl tho!) and ascended accesories/ring/amulet. As i said, you CAN be carried but you need a really good organized group geared up well that knows what the hell they're doing, if not then you'll hit a giant brick wall, you can join a pve guild and learn from them, bosses like matthias can be dealt with non ideal gear due to how his enrage mechanic works on dishing out damage, it's tankable up to a certain point (tankable as in either you dodge better and manage your position and get used to the mechanics or gtfo out of that area)
    Cod has a new campaign, new weapons, new multiplayer levels every year. Zelda has been recycling the same weapons, villains, and dungeons since the 80's. Zelda recycles enough to make cod blush. The same weapons, villains, dungeons, and princess in every single Zelda for the most part. It's almost as cheesy as bowser vs Mario round 35

  13. #13
    Never thought I'd see conversations like this happening in GW2.

    Really, really turns me off from bothering to do my yearly, "Come back to GW2 and do stuff." ritual.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Never thought I'd see conversations like this happening in GW2.

    Really, really turns me off from bothering to do my yearly, "Come back to GW2 and do stuff." ritual.
    Well it's the same as last year except now we have raids - and the snubs who pug raid and think they are elitests.

    TDLR is just join a guild
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Well it's the same as last year except now we have raids - and the snubs who pug raid and think they are elitests.

    TDLR is just join a guild
    I suppose. But a big part of what always keeps me coming back to GW2 is the feeling that it's always encouraging me to do so. Contrast that with a game like WoW that is constantly discouraging me from coming back because my gear is outdated, achievements are outdated, legendary quest is behind by months, etc etc.

    Granted I could still come back to GW2 to do all the usual things I did before, but that gives me no incentive to fork over the box cost for HoT. So meh.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Never thought I'd see conversations like this happening in GW2.

    Really, really turns me off from bothering to do my yearly, "Come back to GW2 and do stuff." ritual.
    I do wonder if any of the "I'm leaving because GW2 doesn't have raids!" folks came back at all. :-p
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    I suppose. But a big part of what always keeps me coming back to GW2 is the feeling that it's always encouraging me to do so. Contrast that with a game like WoW that is constantly discouraging me from coming back because my gear is outdated, achievements are outdated, legendary quest is behind by months, etc etc.

    Granted I could still come back to GW2 to do all the usual things I did before, but that gives me no incentive to fork over the box cost for HoT. So meh.
    I don't really understand what you are saying. There was no new gear tier. It's still ascended. Raids are tuned around ascended, just like dungeons and fractals are tuned around AR and exotics, but you don't need that if you are good.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I don't really understand what you are saying. There was no new gear tier. It's still ascended. Raids are tuned around ascended, just like dungeons and fractals are tuned around AR and exotics, but you don't need that if you are good.
    Sure, but Ascended is a bit of a pain in the ass to get a set of - especially if you don't play a lot, and doubly if you play a lot of characters.

    Previously it largely didn't matter what you had - and indeed GW2 was lauded by many for the lack of vertical progression. Now it sounds like - instead of the game welcoming me to come back and log in - I'll find myself not wanting to bother since the expectation for current content is that I farm up more gear. :|

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Sure, but Ascended is a bit of a pain in the ass to get a set of - especially if you don't play a lot, and doubly if you play a lot of characters.

    Previously it largely didn't matter what you had - and indeed GW2 was lauded by many for the lack of vertical progression. Now it sounds like - instead of the game welcoming me to come back and log in - I'll find myself not wanting to bother since the expectation for current content is that I farm up more gear. :|
    Um no, you do not need full ascended for raids. Tuned and required is not the same thing and raids (there is only 2 wings atm) is the only content tuned around ascended. Not to mention raids count for like 2% of the entire expansions content. You'll be fine going around all the zones with exotics or rares.

    Full exotic + ascended accessories is enough for raids, if you ever plan on doing them.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

    I received a day one ORAS demo code. I am a chosen one.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer barackopala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Um no, you do not need full ascended for raids. Tuned and required is not the same thing and raids (there is only 2 wings atm) is the only content tuned around ascended. Not to mention raids count for like 2% of the entire expansions content. You'll be fine going around all the zones with exotics or rares.

    Full exotic + ascended accessories is enough for raids, if you ever plan on doing them.
    Yep, all you need is exotic and ascended accesories/ring and know wtf you're doing, if you wanna do no UD gorseval you'll need every lil bit of gear you can squeeze.

    I love no updraft gorse,
    Cod has a new campaign, new weapons, new multiplayer levels every year. Zelda has been recycling the same weapons, villains, and dungeons since the 80's. Zelda recycles enough to make cod blush. The same weapons, villains, dungeons, and princess in every single Zelda for the most part. It's almost as cheesy as bowser vs Mario round 35

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