1. #2021
    There is ALOT they should have done differently to create a WoT that would have been something the author and fans of the book would have loved, but they didn't.

    I was tempted to make a list, however I think the biggest thing that they really should have done is realize that this series is BIG and should be taken at a measured pace and not rushed through. If you want to do a book per season then you need longer seasons. 8 episodes was simply too short to do the first book properly. They did not have time to build the characters or make you care about them at all. They rushed through it and wasted so much time on their own invented scenes that the actual characters in the story got the shaft.

    They could have done 13 episodes that would have told the actual story well and given them time to develop the characters and make you care about what was happening.

    This would have been my season 1.

    1 Introduce characters, boys see the fade and we meet the town, gleeman, peddler, and Moiraine. Should have ended with the door being smashed in at the al'Thor farm. Idyllic Emond's Field with tone of dread layered over it. Make the audience like this town but with a feel that something is coming.
    2 Fight at the farm. Tam much better fighter, takes only a scratch. Westwood dragging Tam. Horror of the Fade and Trollocs on the road. Use this episode for flashbacks from Tam's POV to show us him finding Rand. By the end of this episode you should FEEL for Rand and when he walks into the smoking ruins of Emond's Field at the end of it, you should hurt for him.
    3 Healing Tam through leaving over the Taren. Should have played up horror elements, should have seen Draghkar up close. Should have had Moiraine's speech to make viewers care about the Two Rivers. This episode could have been from Egwene's perspective or any of the boys.
    4 Baerlon, should had short travel scenes to get there. Only important thing is Egwene can channel. Need to introduce Whitecloaks here. Moiraine tall as the wall would have been cool. Introduce Min and have Nynaeve show up. Can expand a bit on the dreams to give dread to the boys. Can start splitting perspective between the boys and Egwene.
    5 Shadar Logoth. Should have seen wall of fire (cgi) and Moiraine with angreal being awesome. Should have met Mordeth. Ending on Perrin and Egwene into the river still makes sense, but we need to know Bela makes it. Bela is important. Rand, Mat and Thom end running for the boat.
    6 Meet Elyas, meet Bayle Domon. Meet Tinkers. Exposition heavy episode with amazing visuals. Wolves, tinkers, boat. Most of this episode from Perrin's perspective.
    7 Whitebridge, cgi but make it HUGE and impressive. Short scenes of Rand and Mat traveling. Perrin and Egwene get caught by Whitecloaks.
    8 Four Kings with Goad. R/M travel to Caemlyn and end at the inn. Moiraine/Lan/Nynaeve save Perrin and Egwene. Last scene Rand walks in on Loial. Loial should be CGI, but the actor did well on the voice.
    9 Rand meets the royals and Logain brought in. End with Mat attacking Moiraine with the dagger. This episode from nearly all Rand's perspective.
    10 The Ways, end with entering Fal Dara. Play up horror in the Ways and Machin Shin. Let Loial get alot of screentime. We can follow whoever during this episode.
    11 Fal Dara. Let us learn more about Lan here. Strong scene with Moiraine and Padan Fain. This can be from whomever.
    12 Travel through the Blight, army goes to Tarwin's Gap. End with stepping into the sanctuary and seeing Green Man. See what is left of Lan's home. From Rand's perspective at least for finding the Eye due to his 'need'.
    13 Eye of the World. Green Man. Forsaken. Rand officially the DR. End with the weather shifting and voice over by Moiraine saying that this was only the first step.


    Changes they could have made: Shorten travel times, skip some of the stops along the way (or montage them... we don't need to see Rand and Mat cutting wood or getting chased off a farm in super detail). Moiraine could bring Egwene due to her being ta'veren likes the boys. From the rest of the story, she is obviously as strongly ta'veren as Perrin or Mat and it makes alot of her story make more sense.

    Otherwise much of the story should stay as the book had it. Quickly slide through the slower parts but hit all the main action and character building. Nearly every episode I listed ends on a cliff hanger that would give the show the feeling of things happening, and nearly every single episode has a decent amount of action in it (save episode 6, but you meet so many people that it would be ok to have 1 slower episode). As you can see, there is plenty of content that was ACTUALLY IN THE BOOK to fill out more episodes than Amazon made without having to invent nonsense scenes like warders being sad or Aes Sedai needing the Oath Rod to be believed when they give their word.

    They should have NOT mentioned the Dragon Reborn until near the end. They should have kept it with Moiraine saying that there was something in those boys that the Dark One wanted and she would oppose him, no matter what. Having the "who is the Dragon" was stupid because book readers already knew and non-readers had NO idea who the Dragon really was because the tiny bit of exposition they gave on it was not nearly enough. The non-readers I've talked to basically thought the Dragon was a villain from the info they got in the show.

    13 episodes would have allowed the audience to care about the characters, and the show to be fleshed out and done well to where it actually had stakes you felt by the time they got to the Eye.


    What do you all think, ignore what they made and tell me if how I fleshed out the first book for a series would have worked and if you think that would have made for a better first season?
    Last edited by Gumble; 2021-12-23 at 02:25 AM.

  2. #2022
    Anyone else thinking that they're failing at pacing this thing entirely, too? It's the end of season 1 and Rand is going to face the Dark One. No evidence he knows what he's doing channeling, no seals breaking, just, "oh hey you're the Dragon, let's do this!" How does this lead into season 2? And why did they need to eliminate Shayol Ghul, what a great name that was!

  3. #2023
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    Shockingly hard for people to accept that something they don't like can be popular.

    That said, would be interesting to see how many more people are watching the Witcher. I would guess that it's a lot.
    The question isn't whether it gets views the question is it gets enough views or drives enough prime subs to justify 10 mil an episode and I just don't think it does. I haven't heard anybody at work talking about it outside the few people I know who have already read the books and those aren't really positive about it. By the end of S1 of GoT it was already being talked about a ton at work.

  4. #2024
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Big assumption there.
    No.

    "Persons 2+ Total Minutes Viewed - Week of 11/15/21 - 11/21/21" https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/top-ten/

    You can hate the show all you want but dismissing that it has high viewership or thinking it is in danger of being cancelled despite impressive and chart topping debut viewership is stupid. You are actively fighting against facts just because you have disdain for the show. At some point you have to come to terms with just because you don't like the show doesn't mean the world follows suit and that it can actually have success despite your personal views.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    The question isn't whether it gets views the question is it gets enough views or drives enough prime subs to justify 10 mil an episode and I just don't think it does.
    A lot of other Amazon Prime shows have had 10 million an episode budgets and have had far less debut viewership. At this point what will determine the shows fate is Season 2.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2021-12-23 at 03:59 AM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #2025
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    No.

    "Persons 2+ Total Minutes Viewed - Week of 11/15/21 - 11/21/21" https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/top-ten/

    You can hate the show all you want but dismissing that it has high viewership or thinking it is in danger of being cancelled despite impressive and chart topping debut viewership is stupid. You are actively fighting against facts just because you have disdain for the show. At some point you have to come to terms with just because you don't like the show doesn't mean the world follows suit and that it can actually have success despite your personal views.

    - - - Updated - - -



    A lot of other Amazon Prime shows have had 10 million an episode budgets and have had far less debut viewership. At this point what will determine the shows fate is Season 2.
    It's literally a massive assumption rofl. But w/e you can defend your trash show all you want and people here will keep calling you on your bs.

  6. #2026
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    Anyone else thinking that they're failing at pacing this thing entirely, too? It's the end of season 1 and Rand is going to face the Dark One. No evidence he knows what he's doing channeling, no seals breaking, just, "oh hey you're the Dragon, let's do this!" How does this lead into season 2? And why did they need to eliminate Shayol Ghul, what a great name that was!
    I imagine this is a case of Moiraine and Siuan simply being wrong. They may believe that's what the Eye is, they may believe Rand will face the Dark One there, but I suspect it is Forsaken manipulation.

  7. #2027
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    It's literally a massive assumption rofl. But w/e you can defend your trash show all you want and people here will keep calling you on your bs.
    Using the stated information by the same agency providing viewer information is an assumption? You are the one that reduced it to a viewer count and then are saying I'm wrong because I used your formula with the facts. I haven't really defended the show. I've just come to terms with what it is and can like it for that. I don't need to hold on to hate or keep trying to push false narratives about its success.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #2028
    So spoilers are out there for ep 8. If you'd rather face the fresh horrors Rafe is inflicting first hand then turn away now.

    Rand and Moiraine get to the Eye, only to meet Ishy, who they think is the DO. Turns out its a plot to get the Dragon there to try and turn him. Ishy overpowers Moiraine and either shields or stills her - the second is the popular theory. Then Rand uses a sa'angreal Moiraine gave him to melt Ishy.

    Meanwhile, back at Tarwin's Gap Rand has no part in it. No giant figure in the sky. Nope. The battle is won by 5 women, including Nyn and Eg, linking up and nuking the trolloc army.

    Oh, and Agelmar dies by using Hollywood dumb levels of battle tactics.

    And Fain shanks Loial with the cursed dagger and appears to kill him (though given that the actor is filing season 2 it would appear he gets better.) Then Fain steals the Horn of Valere which was stored under Agelmar's throne. No, seriously. They keep such a powerful artefact stored under Agelmar's chair (and he isn't even the Shienaran king) right on the frontline to the blight.

    And the Seanchan turn up as the teaser.

    Plus more.

  9. #2029
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Using the stated information by the same agency providing viewer information is an assumption? You are the one that reduced it to a viewer count and then are saying I'm wrong because I used your formula with the facts. I haven't really defended the show. I've just come to terms with what it is and can like it for that. I don't need to hold on to hate or keep trying to push false narratives about its success.
    If they are actually requiring two plus viewers to register which seems highly unlikely that could also explain the lower number of other shows that are more solo watches my guess is the boxes are just registered to homes of two plus viewers that doesn't means there are always two plus viewers watching.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    So spoilers are out there for ep 8. If you'd rather face the fresh horrors Rafe is inflicting first hand then turn away now.

    Rand and Moiraine get to the Eye, only to meet Ishy, who they think is the DO. Turns out its a plot to get the Dragon there to try and turn him. Ishy overpowers Moiraine and either shields or stills her - the second is the popular theory. Then Rand uses a sa'angreal Moiraine gave him to melt Ishy.

    Meanwhile, back at Tarwin's Gap Rand has no part in it. No giant figure in the sky. Nope. The battle is won by 5 women, including Nyn and Eg, linking up and nuking the trolloc army.

    Oh, and Agelmar dies by using Hollywood dumb levels of battle tactics.

    And Fain shanks Loial with the cursed dagger and appears to kill him (though given that the actor is filing season 2 it would appear he gets better.) Then Fain steals the Horn of Valere which was stored under Agelmar's throne. No, seriously. They keep such a powerful artefact stored under Agelmar's chair (and he isn't even the Shienaran king) right on the frontline to the blight.

    And the Seanchan turn up as the teaser.

    Plus more.
    If that's actually true watching the dmount mods try to spin it as good will be hilarious.

  10. #2030
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    So spoilers are out there for ep 8. If you'd rather face the fresh horrors Rafe is inflicting first hand then turn away now.

    Rand and Moiraine get to the Eye, only to meet Ishy, who they think is the DO. Turns out its a plot to get the Dragon there to try and turn him. Ishy overpowers Moiraine and either shields or stills her - the second is the popular theory. Then Rand uses a sa'angreal Moiraine gave him to melt Ishy.

    Meanwhile, back at Tarwin's Gap Rand has no part in it. No giant figure in the sky. Nope. The battle is won by 5 women, including Nyn and Eg, linking up and nuking the trolloc army.

    Oh, and Agelmar dies by using Hollywood dumb levels of battle tactics.

    And Fain shanks Loial with the cursed dagger and appears to kill him (though given that the actor is filing season 2 it would appear he gets better.) Then Fain steals the Horn of Valere which was stored under Agelmar's throne. No, seriously. They keep such a powerful artefact stored under Agelmar's chair (and he isn't even the Shienaran king) right on the frontline to the blight.

    And the Seanchan turn up as the teaser.

    Plus more.
    Wish it will be closed after season 2. Best case - after season 1, but they are already filming it.
    Its so toxic feministic, its so wrong to the source. Every, every male role is bad. Rand is a dick, Perrin - coward and prick, Mat - traitor. Abel - drunkard, Rand dad - the sad sack, Lan is pussy, Agelmar is a dick. Even so - half of male is ripped out, just for female ones. Womans kills the trollock, while man go hiding in shit. Rain the Mahdi? nope, just his wife. Master Luhan? nope, Perrin headcanon wife. Rand winning battle in Tarwin Gasp? nope, females do it. Moraine gives Rand saangreal? what? the fucking what? there were 3 of them and all of it is not available to sisters. But fuck this, its Gendalf style now.
    And atop of that - males fails, when woman wins. Every, fucking, time. And atop of that - good things, that male do in books - in show does by female.
    Not count that great stories about dads beating their children, males that hold much power in this world and other UGLY SHIT THAT ONLY MALES DO. Only good males - are gay males (aka warders of green sisters) or ones that was saved by females from their masculinity
    Total shame - this show, and a world we are living in - if this kind of filming is getting popular.

    Glad in my country books is re-publishing once more and I can read it without this toxic modern things (shit ones)
    Last edited by Dancaris; 2021-12-23 at 07:31 AM. Reason: ragin

  11. #2031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    .

    I'm actually now only noticing how many tell tale signs Jordan had of
    1. Nyanaeve actually fancying Lan - it's there quite early on - the show gets it right
    2. Rand actually being a channeller - which is subtle in the book and would have worked well in the show.
    a) Rand and the flame and the void is very similar to Moiraine's lesson to Egwene on connecting to the One Power
    b) Rand's incidents with the power in book 1 are subtle, but are characterised similar to how Moiraine tells Nyneve evidence of things that indicate the power is being used.. Rand has similar during the adventure, unexplainable things - his encounter with the Whitecloaks in Baerlon, his antics at the top of the mast on Bayle Domon's ship.
    c) The sicknesses and mood swings that follow power usage.. the incident in Whitebreidge in the inn, Rand is sick and suddenly gets well again
    d) Rand is also able to sense dark taints like people who use the one power can, he feels the taint in Padan Fain in Caemlyn, like Moiraine states she can, he feels the wrongness in he weather change as they approach the blight like Nynaeve does
    e) It is Rand's desperate need that takes them into the Green man's realm, , in the narrative it is Rand that feels he desperately needs to get out of here at all cost, must,the narrative's description is so great.


    I never picked these up in the first 3 readings of the story.. but then, I was a child the first time I read it, and a teen/young adult on subsequent readings.
    The biggest "oh lol why didn't I get that?" moment I had on my 2nd re-read was when they're racing out of the Two Rivers and Moiraine says they have to keep up or be left behind. Egwene rides on Bela and is lagging and Rand desperately urges Bela on in his mind.

    Then later when Moiraine goes to freshen up the horses through channeling she remarks on how Bela doesn't even need it, she's fresh af. Because Rand channeled to refresh her while they were running away. Book is so full of these little tidbits!

  12. #2032
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    Anyone else thinking that they're failing at pacing this thing entirely, too? It's the end of season 1 and Rand is going to face the Dark One. No evidence he knows what he's doing channeling, no seals breaking, just, "oh hey you're the Dragon, let's do this!" How does this lead into season 2? And why did they need to eliminate Shayol Ghul, what a great name that was!
    Ba'alzamon isn't the Dark One. I expect season 1 is going to end just like the book did, not sure what the seals or Shayol Ghul have to do with it really, have you read the books?

  13. #2033
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantique View Post
    The biggest "oh lol why didn't I get that?" moment I had on my 2nd re-read was when they're racing out of the Two Rivers and Moiraine says they have to keep up or be left behind. Egwene rides on Bela and is lagging and Rand desperately urges Bela on in his mind.

    Then later when Moiraine goes to freshen up the horses through channeling she remarks on how Bela doesn't even need it, she's fresh af. Because Rand channeled to refresh her while they were running away. Book is so full of these little tidbits!
    It was pretty obvious to me the first time because of the channeling sickness he had after and the events of four kings. Which is why I don't get emphasizing the mystery eotw especially is much more about the journey.

  14. #2034
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    I'm not making qualitative remarks in either direction, but making use of viewership numbers as an indication of a show's quality is the equivalent of claiming Shadowlands was a good expansion because it sold 1 million copies, or that Diablo 3 was a great game on account of its sales numbers.

  15. #2035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    If they are actually requiring two plus viewers to register which seems highly unlikely that could also explain the lower number of other shows that are more solo watches my guess is the boxes are just registered to homes of two plus viewers that doesn't means there are always two plus viewers watching.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If that's actually true watching the dmount mods try to spin it as good will be hilarious.
    Given what we've been served up so far, the leaks seem plausible. I kind of feel sorry for the Dragonmount crew, the site was practically dead before the show, I guess they were hoping for an influx which they never got.

  16. #2036
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    Shockingly hard for people to accept that something they don't like can be popular.

    That said, would be interesting to see how many more people are watching the Witcher. I would guess that it's a lot.
    Nonsense. I have seen books that are not fit to wipe your arse sell millions of copies. Even more!

    Yes, I am also curious to see how many watched 6/7th episode of WoT. Call me shocked then.

    Yes, show is so good! CW quality! CW numbers! Prime has never seen such success!

    Carry on! GoT has nothing on this new turning! MWGA!
    Last edited by jdbond; 2021-12-23 at 12:14 PM.

  17. #2037
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    Shockingly hard for people to accept that something they don't like can be popular.

    That said, would be interesting to see how many more people are watching the Witcher. I would guess that it's a lot.
    Because everyone knows popular means good.

  18. #2038
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    So spoilers are out there for ep 8. If you'd rather face the fresh horrors Rafe is inflicting first hand then turn away now.

    Rand and Moiraine get to the Eye, only to meet Ishy, who they think is the DO. Turns out its a plot to get the Dragon there to try and turn him. Ishy overpowers Moiraine and either shields or stills her - the second is the popular theory. Then Rand uses a sa'angreal Moiraine gave him to melt Ishy.

    Meanwhile, back at Tarwin's Gap Rand has no part in it. No giant figure in the sky. Nope. The battle is won by 5 women, including Nyn and Eg, linking up and nuking the trolloc army.

    Oh, and Agelmar dies by using Hollywood dumb levels of battle tactics.

    And Fain shanks Loial with the cursed dagger and appears to kill him (though given that the actor is filing season 2 it would appear he gets better.) Then Fain steals the Horn of Valere which was stored under Agelmar's throne. No, seriously. They keep such a powerful artefact stored under Agelmar's chair (and he isn't even the Shienaran king) right on the frontline to the blight.

    And the Seanchan turn up as the teaser.

    Plus more.
    But see, this is "good enough" for some! Now don't be jealous by massive success! People are loving it.

    I just wonder what happened to "The Boys"..

  19. #2039
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    Wish it will be closed after season 2. Best case - after season 1, but they are already filming it.
    Its so toxic feministic, its so wrong to the source. Every, every male role is bad. Rand is a dick, Perrin - coward and prick, Mat - traitor. Abel - drunkard, Rand dad - the sad sack, Lan is pussy, Agelmar is a dick. Even so - half of male is ripped out, just for female ones. Womans kills the trollock, while man go hiding in shit. Rain the Mahdi? nope, just his wife. Master Luhan? nope, Perrin headcanon wife. Rand winning battle in Tarwin Gasp? nope, females do it. Moraine gives Rand saangreal? what? the fucking what? there were 3 of them and all of it is not available to sisters. But fuck this, its Gendalf style now.
    And atop of that - males fails, when woman wins. Every, fucking, time. And atop of that - good things, that male do in books - in show does by female.
    Not count that great stories about dads beating their children, males that hold much power in this world and other UGLY SHIT THAT ONLY MALES DO. Only good males - are gay males (aka warders of green sisters) or ones that was saved by females from their masculinity
    Total shame - this show, and a world we are living in - if this kind of filming is getting popular.

    Glad in my country books is re-publishing once more and I can read it without this toxic modern things (shit ones)
    Wait... she gave him a Sa'angreal? ... arent there only like 3 confirmed male ones? (Callandor, Sakarnen and the Choedan Kal key?)

    And only Callandor shows up early in the story (it was at the bottom of the Eye). Then the Choedan Kal key shows up in Rhuidean.... and lastly Sakarnen...

  20. #2040
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Wait... she gave him a Sa'angreal? ... arent there only like 3 confirmed male ones? (Callandor, Sakarnen and the Choedan Kal key?)

    And only Callandor shows up early in the story (it was at the bottom of the Eye). Then the Choedan Kal key shows up in Rhuidean.... and lastly Sakarnen...
    Again, you are using book and trying to be logical. In this show, Rafe can pull anything out of his panty as plot demands it. Even DO. They won't even bother to explain how "Siuan" thought DO was weak. What is DO? Because "explanation" doesn't allow Rafe to do pantry tricks. Thats why so much of show is unexplained. And rest is just plot device.

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