[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Corvus]

If anyone bases their view on what labour is like based on tv/movies then they are in for a massive shock if they ever experience it in real life

A full term woman in labour is physically incapable of pulling off acrobatics in the show. They are going to be moving slow and pretty much stop everything when a contraction hits.

No one says they wouldn't try and fight back, but they'd have little chance against a trained soldier, let alone a pack of elite soldiers.

[Gumble]

If anyone bases their view on what labour is like based on tv/movies then they are in for a massive shock if they ever experience it in real life

A full term woman in labour is physically incapable of pulling off acrobatics in the show. They are going to be moving slow and pretty much stop everything when a contraction hits.

No one says they wouldn't try and fight back, but they'd have little chance against a trained soldier, let alone a pack of elite soldiers.

Been through 3 of them and my wife hit me in the arm during each of them telling me I make babies that are too damn big.

A woman in labor is physically incapable of walking, let alone fighting soldiers. Ironically I may even fault RJ a bit on that description, because by the time she was due, there is no way Rand's mom would have been able to move with the Maidens up a mountain slope to get lost from the rest of the Aiel. I don't care how good of shape a woman is in, there are massive physical limitations during that stage of pregnancy.

Give her a gun and she'd shoot alot of guys, a woman's anger is definitely intact at that point.... but a spear? Nah, may as well be a child swinging that during that point.

[rhorle]

Serious question have you ever seen a women in labor? She gave birth within minutes of the fight around her finishing. You aren't fighting when you are that close to giving birth you are screaming in pain because contractions hurt.

Have you? When you are near term you can be sent into labor from actions. Again do you think a maiden of the spear would sit idly by while they were at risk of slaughter just because they were pregnant? That goes against the Aiel culture.

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A full term woman in labour is physically incapable of pulling off acrobatics in the show. They are going to be moving slow and pretty much stop everything when a contraction hits.

Was the show over the top? Sure. But that is nitpicking. Also women are not delicate little flowers when pregnant https://www.espn.com/chicago/story/_...on-gives-birth

[Xath]

Have you? When you are near term you can be sent into labor from actions. Again do you think a maiden of the spear would sit idly by while they were at risk of slaughter just because they were pregnant? That goes against the Aiel culture.

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Was the show over the top? Sure. But that is nitpicking. Also women are not delicate little flowers when pregnant https://www.espn.com/chicago/story/_...on-gives-birth

Running is vastly different from doing acrobatics it has nothing to do with not being a "delicate little flower" running is largely focused on the quads and legs fighting that manner is largely focused on the abdominal muscles they are not equivalent. It wasn't over the top it was flat out nonsensical. Although considering how crappy the show has made Lan maybe a pregnant woman could slaughter a dozen of the companions no sweat lols. Also this isn't modern times if a child was born weeks premature they would die especially if sitting in the snow for a bit crying.

I notice you keep avoiding the trends of actual popular shows here I'll link it for you again. Show is getting massacred by The Witcher and would have gotten similarly bodied by Arcane both shows with similar budgets

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...3w6j16g,Arcane

[Gigantique]

Elayne inherits Andor, and Rand gives her Cairhien.

Rand WANTS to give her Cairhien iirc but Elayne is downright offended by the notion and garners support for it through the noble Houses there herself. I might misremember and mix her indignation at Rand wanting to "give her" Andor tbf but I do feel like she does actively work on getting the Sun Throne too.

[Witchblade77]

the irony of complaining about the show going seriously of books while comparing it to another show in favor of that other show.... when that other show has gone JUST as off books if not more so.

I guess its ok when Witcher does it because... reasons?


incidentally, in the book, Tam finds her already dead with newborn next to her, so in a book that newborn was out in a snow likely a heck of a lot longer then in the show where Tam gets him immediately after birth and can start caring for him, warming him up, etc.

her being able to fight while going into labor is mostly "rule of cool" but this is a fantasy show we are talking about, with magical powers and all that jazz and that specific baby being reincarnation of the dragon, so the trope of "special magical baby makes things different" immediately applies here.

in a story where desert people are pale redheads for the sole reason that Jordan thought it would be cool, where all kinds of magical fits are possible.... pregnant woman fighting through early stages of labor? didn't require nearly as much suspension of disbelief for me as the "lucky break - there just so happens to be a body of water deep enough for Perrin and Egwene to jump into and survive right bellow the one spot on the wall that there were chased to by a deadly black stuff taking over everything"

last episode was... not good. but last I checked, original ending of "Eye of the world" was not exactly beloved or appreciated either, so ....

[rhorle]

I notice you keep avoiding the trends of actual popular shows here I'll link it for you again. Show is getting massacred by The Witcher and would have gotten similarly bodied by Arcane both shows with similar budgets

I am not avoiding them. It just isn't relevant to anything being discussed and is just your continued attempts to move the goals posts. You tried it before and just like before it isn't relevant to anything. Your link is also dead (error 404) so you don't need to keep linking it lol.

[Shadowferal]

[Triceron]

Have you? When you are near term you can be sent into labor from actions.

Was the show over the top? Sure. But that is nitpicking. Also women are not delicate little flowers when pregnant https://www.espn.com/chicago/story/_...on-gives-birth

My kid was born just a little under 2 months ago. Yes, seen labour in action. Even with meds, contractions are a bitch and are beyond exhausting. What that lady happened to do in the show was beyond Wonder Woman levels of superhuman ability.

Fighting in battle is beyond a contact sport. Running and acrobatics are one thing, but fighting is something else completely. And with the type of jumps she was doing while fighting while also in labour? Either she's superhuman, or she was on some insanely strong drugs. Honestly, if they explained it away with magic, it'd be more believable than what we got.

[Gumble]

I guess its ok when Witcher does it because... reasons?

Dunno, I just don't think he cares about the Witcher as much as WoT (which to be honest, I'd assume is most people posting in a WoT thread....).

From what I've seen, there are plenty of people not thrilled with the Witcher either, however it does have a bit better of an outlook than WoT.

Both have writing issues. Witcher's plot is meandering and it treats Geralt like he is just there to babysit Ciri. Both get comments about the writers for those shows just making shit up as they like.

Witcher seems to win out on atmosphere and acting, which is likely why its doing so much better. Cavill carries that show hard and he has alot of fans willing to watch it for just that. Rosamund Pike is an ok actor, but I wouldn't say she has a fan following to draw to WoT. Also the other actors in the Witcher do alot with the scripts they've been given (say what you will about those), but WoT actors mostly feel like either blocks of wood, or warders crying like babies. Neither are particularly likely to draw a crowd.

The Witcher show feels like a good rendition of the game, that is taking too long to give its audience the stuff they want to see (namely Cavill killing monsters). It has suffered from its writing, but that is mostly the only complaint people have.


Wheel of Time, complaints about writing make Witcher look like Shakespeare. Actors performing badly. Costumes that look like a ren-fair. Villains that are laughable. Strange changes to characters and lore that make the world feel less like RJ's world.

Witcher certainly has some issues, but if WoT only had the issues Witcher has? Good lord this thread would be awfully upbeat.

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Honestly, if they explained it away with magic, it'd be more believable than what we got.

I wish shows/movies would honestly do this more often. I can totally go with the story if you explain it as "magical powers", but when I see a tiny dude or a woman throwing 300 lbs guys around or fighting like the Matrix it makes it really hard not to treat it like a joke. Tell me she's a Slayer and that she has magical demon powers and I'm good, go at it, but if its just 100 lbs girl hitting guys with a balled fist and not breaking every finger in her hand it just makes it laughable.


Also.... dude, the guy you're responding to is the kind of person who will never see either 1) real fighting or 2) a real life woman who may actual give birth one day..... you are arguing with someone who will refuse to see the sense you are trying to offer. Good luck with that.

[Coniferous]

the irony of complaining about the show going seriously of books while comparing it to another show in favor of that other show.... when that other show has gone JUST as off books if not more so.

I guess its ok when Witcher does it because... reasons?


incidentally, in the book, Tam finds her already dead with newborn next to her, so in a book that newborn was out in a snow likely a heck of a lot longer then in the show where Tam gets him immediately after birth and can start caring for him, warming him up, etc.

her being able to fight while going into labor is mostly "rule of cool" but this is a fantasy show we are talking about, with magical powers and all that jazz and that specific baby being reincarnation of the dragon, so the trope of "special magical baby makes things different" immediately applies here.

in a story where desert people are pale redheads for the sole reason that Jordan thought it would be cool, where all kinds of magical fits are possible.... pregnant woman fighting through early stages of labor? didn't require nearly as much suspension of disbelief for me as the "lucky break - there just so happens to be a body of water deep enough for Perrin and Egwene to jump into and survive right bellow the one spot on the wall that there were chased to by a deadly black stuff taking over everything"

last episode was... not good. but last I checked, original ending of "Eye of the world" was not exactly beloved or appreciated either, so ....

Agreed it wasn't really a big deal from a believability standpoint. To me it was just another instance of the writers' focus on making the female characters heroic badasses, which is fine, except when it also comes neutering all the male characters (at best) or making them evil (at worst).

[rhorle]

Honestly, if they explained it away with magic, it'd be more believable than what we got.

Isn't that what the pattern is? Magic that gets people to do X at Y time and often gives them extraordinary abilities to do so? Or is everyone just assume all the characters get proficient in whatever for the story to work by chance?

[Xath]

I am not avoiding them. It just isn't relevant to anything being discussed and is just your continued attempts to move the goals posts. You tried it before and just like before it isn't relevant to anything. Your link is also dead (error 404) so you don't need to keep linking it lol.

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...3w6j16g,Arcane

fixed

Also I'm not a fan of the Witcher my point is these are the numbers shows spending 10 plus an episode should be looking to have. Would you prefer I go find the numbers for GoT S1 which was spending around 6 an episode and was very faithful to the books?

[Coniferous]

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...3w6j16g,Arcane

fixed

Also I'm not a fan of the Witcher my point is these are the numbers shows spending 10 plus an episode should be looking to have. Would you prefer I go find the numbers for GoT S1 which was spending around 6 an episode and was very faithful to the books?

Yup, because season one of GoT was extremely focused on character development of the main characters, something WoT was sorely lacking. In GoT every scene tells you something about the character - like Tyrion hanging out with whores, Brann climbing the tower, Jon as the bastard child, etc.WoT also kind of teased a big exciting battle but then didn't really have one. GoT was bold because it didn't do the tropey TV things of adding in random conflict left and right or having big flashy action sequences in the first season. I mean, I say bold, but to me it's logical to do things that way...

In WoT, it's an ensemble travelling around together and you're getting a general view, not from any one character's perspective. Also you get dumb scenes like Rand and Perrin fighting over Egwene, which was one of the worst scenes in the history of television.

[rhorle]

Also I'm not a fan of the Witcher my point is these are the numbers shows spending 10 plus an episode should be looking to have. Would you prefer I go find the numbers for GoT S1 which was spending around 6 an episode and was very faithful to the books?

10 million isn't that much an episode. A lot of Amazon shows spend that much. Goliath, The Boys, The Man in the High Castle were all 10 million or more an episode. A lot of the shows are between 5 and 10. The point is 10 million isn't that large of a number anymore. Look at the Lord of the Rings Amazon series that has a rumored budget of $1 Billion for 5 seasons and that is on top of paying 250 for the rights.

You keep trying to bring up everything but the kitchen sink to trash talk Wheel of Time. It doesn't matter what other shows do. Some do less with more and some do more with less. Wheel of Time isn't exceptional but it is decent and it has so far pulled in enough viewers to satisfy Amazon. Which is all that really matters in the end.

Also isn't your link not worth much since "Arcane" is listed as a search term rather then a series like the others? So it skews results to include anything with Arcane in it?

[Xath]

10 million isn't that much an episode. A lot of Amazon shows spend that much. Goliath, The Boys, The Man in the High Castle were all 10 million or more an episode. A lot of the shows are between 5 and 10. The point is 10 million isn't that large of a number anymore. Look at the Lord of the Rings Amazon series that has a rumored budget of $1 Billion for 5 seasons and that is on top of paying 250 for the rights.

You keep trying to bring up everything but the kitchen sink to trash talk Wheel of Time. It doesn't matter what other shows do. Some do less with more and some do more with less. Wheel of Time isn't exceptional but it is decent and it has so far pulled in enough viewers to satisfy Amazon. Which is all that really matters in the end.

Also isn't your link not worth much since "Arcane" is listed as a search term rather then a series like the others? So it skews results to include anything with Arcane in it?

10 million is a huge amount per episode.

Also how many other searches do you think include arcane lols? There is a massive spike when the series comes out and each time a new triad of episodes releases before that it's near nothing.

[rhorle]

10 million is a huge amount per episode.

For modern TV shows it isn't. Why not just get it to use the show? If you are doing a show to show comparison it should all use the same data points and be accurate.

[Xath]

For modern TV shows it isn't. Why not just get it to use the show? If you are doing a show to show comparison it should all use the same data points and be accurate.

Because nobody is looking up Arcane animated series the datapoints are accurate Arcane doesn't have a series with over 80 million copies sold behind it. If you want to combine wheel of time in general despite data showing exactly the spikes you would expect should we then include league of legends as a search terminology for arcane lol? Witcher uses show and is blasting it out of the water but fine just for your insanity. Oh look it's over double that of wheel even when including animated series which nobody would.

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...g%2F11j5bm0g50

Hell we will even be super duper nice

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...g%2F11j5bm0g50

Oh look still getting blasted with wheel of time no filter and with both arcane and witcher getting a filter

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...Witcher,arcane

Now no filter on everything oh boy that uh doesn't look good for your claims

Oh and 10 million is still a huge amount per episode got s1 was 6 mil an episode.

[rhorle]

Oh and 10 million is still a huge amount per episode got s1 was 6 mil an episode.

Then GoT was cheap. Amazon has spent around 10 million on plenty of shows. I've provided you articles that talk about other budgets of Amazon shows. $10 Million isn't huge to Amazon Studios. It is also hilarious that you say no one would included the animated series of Arcane when the show is the relevant comparison you keep bringing up. Lmao.

[Xath]

Then GoT was cheap. Amazon has spent around 10 million on plenty of shows. I've provided you articles that talk about other budgets of Amazon shows. $10 Million isn't huge to Amazon Studios. It is also hilarious that you say no one would included the animated series of Arcane when the show is the relevant comparison you keep bringing up. Lmao.

I'm saying nobody would search for Arcane animated series instead of just Arcane. Also I showed you what all of them looked like with filtering removed. Even with filtering Arcane was still double wheel of time with no filter and Witcher was crushing it.