[TV] The Wheel of Time

[rhorle]

That will make it a failure. Meaning you'd be wrong no matter how you qualify or spin your bullshit.
...and I will wallow in the shadenfreude of everyone that imagined this show was anything other than the hot garbage it was.

A show being canceled doesn't mean past seasons were a failure. Every show ever made eventually ends. Game of Thrones was canceled because they choose not to do a season 9. Was Game of Thrones a failure? You aren't interested in logic here but simply in telling me I'm wrong no matter what because you dislike the show so it can never be called anything but a failure.

[Shadowferal]

A show being canceled doesn't mean past seasons were a failure. Every show ever made eventually ends. Game of Thrones was canceled because they choose not to do a season 9. Was Game of Thrones a failure? You aren't interested in logic here but simply in telling me I'm wrong no matter what because you dislike the show so it can never be called anything but a failure.

Only two seasons in...that makes it a failure.

Stop with your puerile attempt at logic. It's as much as a failure as this show is.

[rhorle]

Only two seasons in...that makes it a failure. Stop with your puerile attempt at logic. It's as much as a failure as this show is.

It still makes Season 1 a success and more then shows that get cancelled after a few episodes. The only child here is yourself who can't accept that something they don't like can be succesful. So you lash out and insult anyone who won't hate on something that you do.

[Coniferous]

TV adaptations have nothing to do with the current fan base, most ppl dont read books and i have not even once heard of wheel of time, the TV shows are targetted at the ppl who watch nothing but TV and that value is much higher than a books fanbase, more ppl want to watch something rather than read, so TV adaptations dont ruin anything, you still have the book series.

Popularity will get a tv series more seasons, otherwise it will just get cancelled. Book readers just have too high expectations on books they like so most of the time they will think the tv series sucks even when its actually decent.

To follow up, I completely disagree with this - the current fan base is an important part of a show like this. These are the people most likely to watch it from the beginning and if they like it, encourage others to do the same.

[Shadowferal]

It still makes Season 1 a success and more then shows that get cancelled after a few episodes. The only child here is yourself who can't accept that something they don't like can be succesful. So you lash out and insult anyone who won't hate on something that you do.

That would make every show with one season a success by your standard. And the only argument you have is purely on your say so. This a child's logic...the same logic that celebrated a group of Aes Sedai that had a tough time defending themselves against a mob while a few wilders decimated thousands of trollocs and dozens of fades...which of course made logical coherent sense to you.

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Something you'll never see...Falme all lit up.

[Grimbold21]

Y
How else is a Television show supposed to indicate how much money it is gaining? When ads are sold viewership is what determines price and interest. For streaming platforms that don't have ads they use it to indicate how much money it brought to the platform. Even low quality shows can still make boat loads of money. Just look at most "reality tv".

That's all nice and well, but none of that determines quality, especially good quality.

As I wrote previously on this thread, if these were the criteria by which quality were measured, then Diablo 3 - at least early on - would've been considered an amazing game because it sold millions. But that's not the truth is it? It did so because, much like with so many media today, it capitalized on a brand highly treasured by its community.

Edit: You can argue, however, that it (the show) was a success because it made the production company money. That's fine, but to argue that this translates into a product of good quality is being naive or disingenous. Unless you're prepared to say Fifa, Battlefield or Assassin's Creed games are top notch

[Coniferous]

It still makes Season 1 a success and more then shows that get cancelled after a few episodes. The only child here is yourself who can't accept that something they don't like can be succesful. So you lash out and insult anyone who won't hate on something that you do.

Given that this show is based on intellectual property that Amazon probably paid a pretty penny for (it’s not published but let’s say it’s 50 million, which honestly seems a bit low), then no, one full season is not a success.

[Triceron]

They why even bother with an adaptation? Why not just build your own show?

Building a new IP/brand from the ground up is more difficult than you think.

Would we even be talking about this show if it were called 'The World that Turns' which no one has ever heard about or cared about? Would Amazon put 10m/episode behind a seemingly generic fantasy concept that has no real fanbase or hype behind it? It's a difficult pitch, one that would never have been greenlit as an original IP.

The IP was picked because it has been a proven success. Same as Witcher and Game of Thrones. Same as adaptations like Man in the High Castle and the Expanse. They don't have as many of the associated risks as say having to build a brand up from absolute obscurity. It's not just about having people know about it, but also about gaining the confidence of the big corporate execs who are fronting big money and expecting it to yield a success. Trying to convince 'The World that Turns' will be a big success? Difficult. Using the Wheel of Time and presenting the already existing fanbase who wants a TV adaptation? Much more reasonable.

[Coniferous]

Building a new IP/brand from the ground up is more difficult than you think.

Would we even be talking about this show if it were called 'The World that Turns' which no one has ever heard about or cared about? Would Amazon put 10m/episode behind a seemingly generic fantasy concept that has no real fanbase or hype behind it? It's a difficult pitch, one that would never have been greenlit as an original IP.

The IP was picked because it has been a proven success. Same as Witcher and Game of Thrones. Same as adaptations like Man in the High Castle and the Expanse. They don't have as many of the associated risks as say having to build a brand up from absolute obscurity. It's not just about having people know about it, but also about gaining the confidence of the big corporate execs who are fronting big money and expecting it to yield a success. Trying to convince 'The World that Turns' will be a big success? Difficult. Using the Wheel of Time and presenting the already existing fanbase who wants a TV adaptation? Much more reasonable.

Oh I agree, I was just responding to the poster who said the current fan base is irrelevant.

[rhorle]

the same logic that celebrated a group of Aes Sedai that had a tough time defending themselves against a mob while a few wilders decimated thousands of trollocs and dozens of fades...which of course made logical coherent sense to you.

The difference between Shadowspawn, and not Shadowspawn, to the three oaths. It also isn't clear on the show if Amalisa took those oaths since her ability is greatly increased. The show also showed that as soon as the oaths allowed the one power to be used they had no difficulty in defending themselves from army of Logaine.

And yes every show, with massive viewership, is a success for the season that got those views. Even shows with out great viewership that get a season 2 were successful for at least 1. Because shows that are not don't get renewed and the entire industry doesn't work if only massive hits are pursued. Because there would be a lot of dead air. There is a reason why b-tier (or even lower) exists for movies. TV shows are similar. Look how Soap Operas dominated day time television for decades.

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Given that this show is based on intellectual property that Amazon probably paid a pretty penny for (it’s not published but let’s say it’s 50 million, which honestly seems a bit low), then no, one full season is not a success.

$50 million is way to generous. Red Eagle last paid $465,000 for the rights. Originally it was $35,000. I doubt Amazon would pay $50 million for the rights given what was had and the failures to bring something to screen over the years. Red Eagle is still involved, though apparently not in the decision making capacity, so it again seems like the price wasn't that high. Sony is also involved to some degree as well.

https://dragonmount.com/news/tv-show...-rights-r1154/

[Mazza]

So we can't judge a TV show by viewership but we can judge solo by viewership? And yes Season 2 will decide if the show remains successful or not.

My point is that Solo was not that bad a movie, but a lot of the star wars viewership sorta bailed after the last Jedi, just how I expect WoT viewership to tank after this first season regardless of how good or bad the second season is.

[Triceron]

A show being canceled doesn't mean past seasons were a failure. Every show ever made eventually ends. Game of Thrones was canceled because they choose not to do a season 9. Was Game of Thrones a failure? You aren't interested in logic here but simply in telling me I'm wrong no matter what because you dislike the show so it can never be called anything but a failure.

Depends on what you're gauging as success and failure.

Was GoT a failure? It was a big success, but after Seasons 7 and 8, it killed its own momentum, and heavily damaged the brand. People don't have the same trust in the GoT franchise as they once had. It's even painful to talk about as a show, really. As an IP, it's damaged to the point where you could consider it failing to achieve its former potential. Much like how you could look at WoW today and see it as a shadow of its former self. Is it a failure? Depends on who you're asking. For many people who no longer play WoW and have moved on, the game could be considered a failure of the franchise as a whole.

I mean even looking at Star Wars, the Last Jedi is both a success and a failure. It was the top selling Star Wars movie; but much of that was built on the hype of it being 'the sequel to The Force Awakens' more than as a movie itself. The movie itself damaged the brand more than anything, including tanking sales of Solo through a massive backlash, and hurting sales of toys and merchandising as a whole. The momentum for the Star Wars movies have fallen very far since The Force Awakens and Rogue One.

If not for the Mandalorian, the Star Wars franchise could have remained taboo for quite a long time.

[Coniferous]

The difference between Shadowspawn, and not Shadowspawn, to the three oaths. It also isn't clear on the show if Amalisa took those oaths since her ability is greatly increased. The show also showed that as soon as the oaths allowed the one power to be used they had no difficulty in defending themselves from army of Logaine.

And yes every show, with massive viewership, is a success for the season that got those views. Even shows with out great viewership that get a season 2 were successful for at least 1. Because shows that are not don't get renewed and the entire industry doesn't work if only massive hits are pursued. Because there would be a lot of dead air. There is a reason why b-tier (or even lower) exists for movies. TV shows are similar. Look how Soap Operas dominated day time television for decades.

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$50 million is way to generous. Red Eagle last paid $465,000 for the rights. Originally it was $35,000. I doubt Amazon would pay $50 million for the rights given what was had and the failures to bring something to screen over the years. Red Eagle is still involved, though apparently not in the decision making capacity, so it again seems like the price wasn't that high. Sony is also involved to some degree as well.

https://dragonmount.com/news/tv-show...-rights-r1154/

It was bought for 500k in 2008 - 3 years before the premiere of Game of Thrones. It’s a totally different landscape now, where LOTR is bringing in what, 250 million, even after the main events of the saga were already done in an excellent trilogy?

The 500k previous price is basically irrelevant. The world has changed.

[Beloren]

Something you'll never see...Falme all lit up.

It would be Moiraine.. or Nynaeve beating Balzamon

[kenn9530]

To follow up, I completely disagree with this - the current fan base is an important part of a show like this. These are the people most likely to watch it from the beginning and if they like it, encourage others to do the same.

I have never even heard of it, i watched it and it was good, that will be the case for most of the viewerbase, these days fans dont really have any effect especially since its on amazon, ppl that will watch it all the way through are ones who enjoy fantasy/magic genre not the fanbase itself.

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And are you suggesting that this "series" is decent?

Image floating to illustrate how terrible and inconsistent the show is; https://preview.redd.it/1t74j2x8r488...=webp&5861cfc6

It is pretty decent and if you dont like it thats fine but not everyone will agree with you, you watch a tv show for what it is and not around whatever book its based on.

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They why even bother with an adaptation? Why not just build your own show?

Building a show and everything take a hell of a lot longer than using pre existing materials.

[Shadowferal]

Building a show and everything take a hell of a lot longer than using pre existing materials.

And drawing upon an existing fan base to bolster viewership is a bonus.

[kenn9530]

And drawing upon an existing fan base to bolster viewership is a bonus.

The book fanbase is just a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of ppl who dont like reading books and prefer to watch something. TV/Film adaptations are targeted for the wider audience to make the most money out of it. Its almost impossible to please a fan of a book series when its turned into a TV/film series.

Most ppl wont have a clue the wheel of time is even a book series before they watch it.

[oplawlz]

A show being canceled doesn't mean past seasons were a failure. Every show ever made eventually ends. Game of Thrones was canceled because they choose not to do a season 9. Was Game of Thrones a failure? You aren't interested in logic here but simply in telling me I'm wrong no matter what because you dislike the show so it can never be called anything but a failure.

When a story has a fixed series of events and gets canceled before those events are completed, it has failed.

[Shadowferal]

The book fanbase is just a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of ppl who dont like reading books and prefer to watch something.

Funny thing about that narrative is when a show with such a fan base fails (and this one will), the blame is always on those selfsame fans that you and others dismiss as irrelevant.

[kenn9530]

Funny thing about that narrative is when a show with such a fan base fails (and this one will), the blame is always on those selfsame fans that you and others dismiss as irrelevant.

The show is not dependant on the book fanbase in the slightest, its solely dependant on the viewers currently active with amazon prime, following the books 100% is not guaranteed to make it more popular.