1. #2381
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    the same logic that celebrated a group of Aes Sedai that had a tough time defending themselves against a mob while a few wilders decimated thousands of trollocs and dozens of fades...which of course made logical coherent sense to you.
    The difference between Shadowspawn, and not Shadowspawn, to the three oaths. It also isn't clear on the show if Amalisa took those oaths since her ability is greatly increased. The show also showed that as soon as the oaths allowed the one power to be used they had no difficulty in defending themselves from army of Logaine.

    And yes every show, with massive viewership, is a success for the season that got those views. Even shows with out great viewership that get a season 2 were successful for at least 1. Because shows that are not don't get renewed and the entire industry doesn't work if only massive hits are pursued. Because there would be a lot of dead air. There is a reason why b-tier (or even lower) exists for movies. TV shows are similar. Look how Soap Operas dominated day time television for decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    Given that this show is based on intellectual property that Amazon probably paid a pretty penny for (it’s not published but let’s say it’s 50 million, which honestly seems a bit low), then no, one full season is not a success.
    $50 million is way to generous. Red Eagle last paid $465,000 for the rights. Originally it was $35,000. I doubt Amazon would pay $50 million for the rights given what was had and the failures to bring something to screen over the years. Red Eagle is still involved, though apparently not in the decision making capacity, so it again seems like the price wasn't that high. Sony is also involved to some degree as well.

    https://dragonmount.com/news/tv-show...-rights-r1154/
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  2. #2382
    Stood in the Fire Mazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So we can't judge a TV show by viewership but we can judge solo by viewership? And yes Season 2 will decide if the show remains successful or not.
    My point is that Solo was not that bad a movie, but a lot of the star wars viewership sorta bailed after the last Jedi, just how I expect WoT viewership to tank after this first season regardless of how good or bad the second season is.

  3. #2383
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A show being canceled doesn't mean past seasons were a failure. Every show ever made eventually ends. Game of Thrones was canceled because they choose not to do a season 9. Was Game of Thrones a failure? You aren't interested in logic here but simply in telling me I'm wrong no matter what because you dislike the show so it can never be called anything but a failure.
    Depends on what you're gauging as success and failure.

    Was GoT a failure? It was a big success, but after Seasons 7 and 8, it killed its own momentum, and heavily damaged the brand. People don't have the same trust in the GoT franchise as they once had. It's even painful to talk about as a show, really. As an IP, it's damaged to the point where you could consider it failing to achieve its former potential. Much like how you could look at WoW today and see it as a shadow of its former self. Is it a failure? Depends on who you're asking. For many people who no longer play WoW and have moved on, the game could be considered a failure of the franchise as a whole.

    I mean even looking at Star Wars, the Last Jedi is both a success and a failure. It was the top selling Star Wars movie; but much of that was built on the hype of it being 'the sequel to The Force Awakens' more than as a movie itself. The movie itself damaged the brand more than anything, including tanking sales of Solo through a massive backlash, and hurting sales of toys and merchandising as a whole. The momentum for the Star Wars movies have fallen very far since The Force Awakens and Rogue One.

    If not for the Mandalorian, the Star Wars franchise could have remained taboo for quite a long time.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-12-30 at 07:33 PM.

  4. #2384
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The difference between Shadowspawn, and not Shadowspawn, to the three oaths. It also isn't clear on the show if Amalisa took those oaths since her ability is greatly increased. The show also showed that as soon as the oaths allowed the one power to be used they had no difficulty in defending themselves from army of Logaine.

    And yes every show, with massive viewership, is a success for the season that got those views. Even shows with out great viewership that get a season 2 were successful for at least 1. Because shows that are not don't get renewed and the entire industry doesn't work if only massive hits are pursued. Because there would be a lot of dead air. There is a reason why b-tier (or even lower) exists for movies. TV shows are similar. Look how Soap Operas dominated day time television for decades.

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    $50 million is way to generous. Red Eagle last paid $465,000 for the rights. Originally it was $35,000. I doubt Amazon would pay $50 million for the rights given what was had and the failures to bring something to screen over the years. Red Eagle is still involved, though apparently not in the decision making capacity, so it again seems like the price wasn't that high. Sony is also involved to some degree as well.

    https://dragonmount.com/news/tv-show...-rights-r1154/
    It was bought for 500k in 2008 - 3 years before the premiere of Game of Thrones. It’s a totally different landscape now, where LOTR is bringing in what, 250 million, even after the main events of the saga were already done in an excellent trilogy?

    The 500k previous price is basically irrelevant. The world has changed.

  5. #2385
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post

    Something you'll never see...Falme all lit up.

    It would be Moiraine.. or Nynaeve beating Balzamon

  6. #2386
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    To follow up, I completely disagree with this - the current fan base is an important part of a show like this. These are the people most likely to watch it from the beginning and if they like it, encourage others to do the same.
    I have never even heard of it, i watched it and it was good, that will be the case for most of the viewerbase, these days fans dont really have any effect especially since its on amazon, ppl that will watch it all the way through are ones who enjoy fantasy/magic genre not the fanbase itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And are you suggesting that this "series" is decent?

    Image floating to illustrate how terrible and inconsistent the show is; https://preview.redd.it/1t74j2x8r488...=webp&5861cfc6
    It is pretty decent and if you dont like it thats fine but not everyone will agree with you, you watch a tv show for what it is and not around whatever book its based on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    They why even bother with an adaptation? Why not just build your own show?
    Building a show and everything take a hell of a lot longer than using pre existing materials.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  7. #2387
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Building a show and everything take a hell of a lot longer than using pre existing materials.
    And drawing upon an existing fan base to bolster viewership is a bonus.

  8. #2388
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And drawing upon an existing fan base to bolster viewership is a bonus.
    The book fanbase is just a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of ppl who dont like reading books and prefer to watch something. TV/Film adaptations are targeted for the wider audience to make the most money out of it. Its almost impossible to please a fan of a book series when its turned into a TV/film series.

    Most ppl wont have a clue the wheel of time is even a book series before they watch it.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  9. #2389
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A show being canceled doesn't mean past seasons were a failure. Every show ever made eventually ends. Game of Thrones was canceled because they choose not to do a season 9. Was Game of Thrones a failure? You aren't interested in logic here but simply in telling me I'm wrong no matter what because you dislike the show so it can never be called anything but a failure.
    When a story has a fixed series of events and gets canceled before those events are completed, it has failed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  10. #2390
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The book fanbase is just a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of ppl who dont like reading books and prefer to watch something.
    Funny thing about that narrative is when a show with such a fan base fails (and this one will), the blame is always on those selfsame fans that you and others dismiss as irrelevant.

  11. #2391
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Funny thing about that narrative is when a show with such a fan base fails (and this one will), the blame is always on those selfsame fans that you and others dismiss as irrelevant.
    The show is not dependant on the book fanbase in the slightest, its solely dependant on the viewers currently active with amazon prime, following the books 100% is not guaranteed to make it more popular.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  12. #2392
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    And drawing upon an existing fan base to bolster viewership is a bonus.
    I bailed on this series after ep 3 and I've not seen anything to show that wasnt the right move... there is bolstering a show with a fan base then utterly relying on it. If this didn't have the wheel of time name no one would care about this poorly made show.

  13. #2393
    Quote Originally Posted by Candlewick View Post
    I bailed on this series after ep 3 and I've not seen anything to show that wasnt the right move... there is bolstering a show with a fan base then utterly relying on it. If this didn't have the wheel of time name no one would care about this poorly made show.
    They are not relying on the fanbase of the books at all though, if you dont read books of which most ppl dont you will not have one single clue what the wheel of time is about, all that matters is the viewers enjoying it and mostly they are, its doing just aswell as the hawkeye series.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  14. #2394
    Quote Originally Posted by Candlewick View Post
    I bailed on this series after ep 3 and I've not seen anything to show that wasnt the right move... there is bolstering a show with a fan base then utterly relying on it. If this didn't have the wheel of time name no one would care about this poorly made show.
    I fully agree.
    And I left on the episode as well.


  15. #2395
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    They are not relying on the fanbase of the books at all though, if you dont read books of which most ppl dont you will not have one single clue what the wheel of time is about, all that matters is the viewers enjoying it and mostly they are, its doing just aswell as the hawkeye series.
    I don't know if anyone who didnt read the books would have any idea of wtf is happening by episode 3 at least. I don't think they even explained what a trolloc was they just had them attack. I could barely follow along and I had listened to the audio books only a few months before the show.

  16. #2396
    Quote Originally Posted by Candlewick View Post
    I don't know if anyone who didnt read the books would have any idea of wtf is happening by episode 3 at least. I don't think they even explained what a trolloc was they just had them attack. I could barely follow along and I had listened to the audio books only a few months before the show.
    I am one who didnt have a clue what wheel of time was, it was on amazon prime and looked like the type i would watch and it was good, you dont need to understand every single thing about whats going on to just enjoy what is there. If you are always comparing things to the books and other stuff then you will always be dissapointed.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2021-12-30 at 10:25 PM.
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  17. #2397
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    I am one who didnt have a clue what wheel of time was, it was on amazon prime and looked like the type i would watch and it was good, you dont need to understand every single thing about whats going on to just enjoy what is there.
    Your right but at some point its just an action show then with interesting scenes.

    That is alright but for the source material I wanted a lot more.

  18. #2398
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    It was bought for 500k in 2008 - 3 years before the premiere of Game of Thrones. It’s a totally different landscape now, where LOTR is bringing in what, 250 million, even after the main events of the saga were already done in an excellent trilogy? The 500k previous price is basically irrelevant. The world has changed.
    Nothing will take Wheel of Time rights from $465k to $50 million when nothing new is being released book wise. The world hasn't changed that much and using existing numbers is better then a wish-based valuation of a fan.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #2399
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Nothing will take Wheel of Time rights from $465k to $50 million when nothing new is being released book wise. The world hasn't changed that much and using existing numbers is better then a wish-based valuation of a fan.
    Sure it has. Tolkien originally sold the rights to LOTR for 250k. Now the rights to do a series that doesn’t even cover the main trilogy sold for 250 million.

  20. #2400
    Mystery Science Theater needs to do a few episodes.

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