[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Beloren]

Not enough Braid Tugging.

I think she like did it once or twice at most in the show

[Frogguh]

Hands down the best series I've seen this year. Not even a competition, tbh.

What did you like about it?

[Coniferous]

I'm aware, per book 90/14 is still more than have watched all eight episodes.

https://dragonmount.com/news/tv-show/s1eotwreview/

The dmount final review even with mods having a rather iron fist is rather full of negative comments weird almost like it massively strayed from the book to an extent no actual fan could tolerate.

Funny how the writer dances around the central problem with the plot change by noting that the scenes with Rand were the strongest. Hey, maybe they would have been even stronger if it had followed the plot in the book and made Rand the main character instead of foisting half his job onto Nynaeve and Egwene?

[kenn9530]

The books have sold 90 million copies per book there are still more readers than people who watched all 8 episodes.

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It's not ratings are plummeting both of critics and base users.

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Now that's something I might actually watch or rifftrax which is their newish thing.

The wheel of time has been around 40 years so selling 90 million books is nothing compared to what tv/films do, they dont have 90 million readers, if 1 reader each bought the whole series they would have over 6 million but its likely its not that high, the tv series pulled in 15-20 million viewers on amazon which is the smallest streaming service currently so thats very good.

The wheel of time tv series is rated pretty high and in the top 5 for all metrics atm, so its a pretty decent series currently.

You can think its not a good book adaptation thats fine but it still a good series to watch.

[Coniferous]

The wheel of time has been around 40 years so selling 90 million books is nothing compared to what tv/films do, they dont have 90 million readers, if 1 reader each bought the whole series they would have over 6 million but its likely its not that high, the tv series pulled in 15-20 million viewers on amazon which is the smallest streaming service currently so thats very good.

The wheel of time tv series is rated pretty high and in the top 5 for all metrics atm, so its a pretty decent series currently.

I think Amazon is likely ok with the current series ratings, but I think the way they adapted this was similar to season 6 of GoT - when they ran out of books, they put too many payoffs in one season then the rest of the series was a mess. I think this series has deviated so far from the plot that they're going to really start to lose the thread next season - most notably by supercharging Nynaeve.

[Xath]

Hands down the best series I've seen this year. Not even a competition, tbh.

Pretty sure it's against forum rules to troll like that. If it's not a troll name what was great about it.

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The wheel of time has been around 40 years so selling 90 million books is nothing compared to what tv/films do, they dont have 90 million readers, if 1 reader each bought the whole series they would have over 6 million but its likely its not that high, the tv series pulled in 15-20 million viewers on amazon which is the smallest streaming service currently so thats very good.

The wheel of time tv series is rated pretty high and in the top 5 for all metrics atm, so its a pretty decent series currently.

You can think its not a good book adaptation thats fine but it still a good series to watch.

30 years and no it's not rated highly it's rated in the 7s for critics and much lower for user reviews. Only reason it was top 5 in streaming is nothing else new was out.

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Funny how the writer dances around the central problem with the plot change by noting that the scenes with Rand were the strongest. Hey, maybe they would have been even stronger if it had followed the plot in the book and made Rand the main character instead of foisting half his job onto Nynaeve and Egwene?

Oh yeah the actual staff at dmount are either heavily invested or straight up bribed was more talking about the comments.

[kenn9530]

Pretty sure it's against forum rules to troll like that. If it's not a troll name what was great about it.

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30 years and no it's not rated highly it's rated in the 7s for critics and much lower for user reviews. Only reason it was top 5 in streaming is nothing else new was out.

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Oh yeah the actual staff at dmount are either heavily invested or straight up bribed was more talking about the comments.

Its nearly an 8 for ratings that is very good, so you ignoring other series like expanse, witcher, discovery, hawkeye, and much more so dont lie saying there is nothing out. Any series that gets 7.5 or above is a pretty good rating.

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I think Amazon is likely ok with the current series ratings, but I think the way they adapted this was similar to season 6 of GoT - when they ran out of books, they put too many payoffs in one season then the rest of the series was a mess. I think this series has deviated so far from the plot that they're going to really start to lose the thread next season - most notably by supercharging Nynaeve.

Most ppl dont care if it follows the books or not because they dont read the books, the tv series is the only story they will get from wheel of time.

[Shadowferal]

I'm aware, per book 90/14 is still more than have watched all eight episodes. https://dragonmount.com/news/tv-show/s1eotwreview/ The dmount final review even with mods having a rather iron fist is rather full of negative comments weird almost like it massively strayed from the book to an extent no actual fan could tolerate.

That pic on page 2...lol

[Coniferous]

Its nearly an 8 for ratings that is very good, so you ignoring other series like expanse, witcher, discovery, hawkeye, and much more so dont lie saying there is nothing out. Any series that gets 7.5 or above is a pretty good rating.

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Most ppl dont care if it follows the books or not because they dont read the books, the tv series is the only story they will get from wheel of time.

Agreed, but it’s really hard to do a series like this well when you are also writing the story as you go. It takes discipline to make sure you don’t paint yourself into a corner and show runners don’t always have that long term perspective. I doubt a set of TV writers can do it.

I think that happened in game of thrones. I think they were supposed to lose a dragon rescuing Bran, but they screwed up and pushed the Hodor scene into season 6, then they got to season 7 and realized, shit, we need a reason for them to go north, so you got the cockamamie “convince Cersei” storyline with Gendry running like a thousand miles in an hour.

I see similar potential for them supercharging Nynaeve so early, actually making her more powerful than Logain when she should actually barely be channeling at this point.

[Frogguh]

Agreed, but it’s really hard to do a series like this well when you are also writing the story as you go. It takes discipline to make sure you don’t paint yourself into a corner and show runners don’t always have that long term perspective. I doubt a set of TV writers can do it.

I think that happened in game of thrones. I think they were supposed to lose a dragon rescuing Bran, but they screwed up and pushed the Hodor scene into season 6, then they got to season 7 and realized, shit, we need a reason for them to go north, so you got the cockamamie “convince Cersei” storyline with Gendry running like a thousand miles in an hour.

I see similar potential for them supercharging Nynaeve so early, actually making her more powerful than Logain when she should actually barely be channeling at this point.

I think they really screwed up giving Rand a sa'angreal right off the bat. He can now sneeze and accidentally blast a city off the map, so what are the Forsaken going to threaten him with?

[Coniferous]

I think they really screwed up giving Rand a sa'angreal right off the bat. He can now sneeze and accidentally blast a city off the map, so what are the Forsaken going to threaten him with?

That's exactly what I'm talking about - doing too much too fast. Saangreals shouldn't be coming into the plot until like season 3 or 4.

[rhorle]

The books have sold 90 million copies per book there are still more readers than people who watched all 8 episodes.

Do you have a source for that? Because everything online points to the 90 million figure being for the entire series and not for each book in the series. According to the wikipedia "List of best-selling books of all time" it would be at number 1 since harry potter only has 500 million copies sold for the series and you are claiming Wheel of Time has over a billion sold (90x14)

[Shadowferal]

I think they really screwed up giving Rand a sa'angreal right off the bat. He can now sneeze and accidentally blast a city off the map, so what are the Forsaken going to threaten him with?

It should make it all easier to fit in the 72 hours or so they have left.

[Xath]

Do you have a source for that? Because everything online points to the 90 million figure being for the entire series and not for each book in the series. According to the wikipedia "List of best-selling books of all time" it would be at number 1 since harry potter only has 500 million copies sold for the series and you are claiming Wheel of Time has over a billion sold (90x14)

90/14 is still 6.2 mil if every person read the entire series it's almost guaranteed that more people have read eye of the world then finished all 8 episode of rafe of time.

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It should make it all easier to fit in the 72 hours or so they have left.

I think you mean 8 this isn't getting past s2.

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Its nearly an 8 for ratings that is very good, so you ignoring other series like expanse, witcher, discovery, hawkeye, and much more so dont lie saying there is nothing out. Any series that gets 7.5 or above is a pretty good rating.

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Most ppl dont care if it follows the books or not because they dont read the books, the tv series is the only story they will get from wheel of time.

8 is not good especially since you have people spamming 10/10 out of desperation also wticher wasn't out til it was done and lol at discovery and more people have read the books then have watched the entirety of rafe of time.

[Triceron]

90/14 is still 6.2 mil if every person read the entire series it's almost guaranteed that more people have read eye of the world then finished all 8 episode of rafe of time.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comment...ally_doing_an/

WoT looks like it has maybe 15 million active global viewers (plus or minus 5 million), with over half of them are likely to not be in the US. Viewer engagement is very high (from Parrot Analytics) and retention is very high (via Amazon statement). It has steadily been the second most pirated show of the past few weeks behind Hawkeye.

tl;dr: Number of active weekly viewers is probably around 15-20 million, but higher is possible. Amazon is almost certainly giving us a season 3 renewal when season 2 finishes filming.


I think those numbers are greater than 6 million, and you're not accounting for global viewership and casual TV goers who have access to Amazon has far more reach than you're giving it credit for.

There are plenty of things we can criticize Wheel of Time for. Viewership isn't really one of them right now, when the metrics are absolutely in favour of this doing fairly well.


Again, want to point out that just because there is a very vocal minority of people with much criticism over the series, the casual viewerbase more than makes up for any perceived 'failure' of the show not doing well. As generic fantasy as this show is, it's popular and viewed regardless of how well adapted the content is.

[Coniferous]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comment...ally_doing_an/

WoT looks like it has maybe 15 million active global viewers (plus or minus 5 million), with over half of them are likely to not be in the US. Viewer engagement is very high (from Parrot Analytics) and retention is very high (via Amazon statement). It has steadily been the second most pirated show of the past few weeks behind Hawkeye.

tl;dr: Number of active weekly viewers is probably around 15-20 million, but higher is possible. Amazon is almost certainly giving us a season 3 renewal when season 2 finishes filming.


I think those numbers are greater than 6 million, and you're not accounting for global viewership and casual TV goers who have access to Amazon has far more reach than you're giving it credit for.

There are plenty of things we can criticize Wheel of Time for. Viewership isn't really one of them right now, when the metrics are absolutely in favour of this doing fairly well.


Again, want to point out that just because there is a very vocal minority of people with much criticism over the series, the casual viewerbase more than makes up for any perceived 'failure' of the show not doing well. As generic fantasy as this show is, it's popular and viewed regardless of how well adapted the content is.

Agreed, but to me this just shows how low the bar is for a series like this. I think it's very easy to make a successful TV series out of a series of good fantasy books - I watched Shadow and Bone on Netflix this year and I liked it. When you have a series of books written by a single author, you get a narrative coherence and story progression that is sorely lacking from film (take the recent star wars trilogy as an example).

What bothers me is that there are so few series like Wheel of Time, and each time one is adapted I think they have the opportunity to make something really good.

Basically it feels like Rafe was given a huge inheritance from his dad (Jordan) and he's screwing around with it, but it doesn't matter because it's really hard to fail when you have such a good setup.

[Triceron]

Agreed, but to me this just shows how low the bar is for a series like this. I think it's very easy to make a successful TV series out of a series of good fantasy books - I watched Shadow and Bone on Netflix this year and I liked it. When you have a series of books written by a single author, you get a narrative coherence and story progression that is sorely lacking from film (take the recent star wars trilogy as an example).

What bothers me is that there are so few series like Wheel of Time, and each time one is adapted I think they have the opportunity to make something really good.

Basically it feels like Rafe was given a huge inheritance from his dad (Jordan) and he's screwing around with it, but it doesn't matter because it's really hard to fail when you have such a good setup.

Completely agree. We can criticize the quality of the show and break down how it just doesn't really meet any book reader's expectations, and is full of flaws that even a casual audience goer would have plenty of questions or eye rolling. But that should never be confused with the show actually doing poorly if there is no evidence to reach that conclusion, especially if metrics are indicating the opposite.

[Biomega]

But that should never be confused with the show actually doing poorly if there is no evidence to reach that conclusion, especially if metrics are indicating the opposite.

While this is absolutely true, it's also very tricky to actually GET reliable metrics. Not all the data is accessible, and what data is, isn't always a direct indicator of what's actually going on financially. Plus there's data that you definitely shouldn't simply trust:

retention is very high (via Amazon statement)

This is immediately suspicious to me, simply because Amazon would NEVER EVER come out and say "yeah nobody keeps watching this" if it was true (which we of course have no way of knowing either way). The inverse, therefore, can't be totally relied on either. They'll always make it look the best, that's how PR works.

That being said, for me personally how well a show is doing financially is irrelevant. I only care about how good I think it is. There's plenty of shows and movies out there that I think are absolute cinematic and narrative garbage, yet manage to rake in millions upon millions of dollars. WoT may well succeed financially and be renewed all the way through. Who knows. But it won't be on my views, because they've demonstrated to me quite convincingly that they're either unwilling or unable to produce a show up to my viewing standards. Whether or not that matters for the show's survival in the long run is beside the point for me.

[rhorle]

While this is absolutely true, it's also very tricky to actually GET reliable metrics. Not all the data is accessible, and what data is, isn't always a direct indicator of what's actually going on financially. Plus there's data that you definitely shouldn't simply trust:

So are you only dismissing every metric that says the show is doing well because you don't like the show? Or do you not believe any metric about any shows success? Because everything points to it being successful and having higher viewership despite your disdain.

[Biomega]

So are you only dismissing every metric that says the show is doing well because you don't like the show? Or do you not believe any metric about any shows success? Because everything points to it being successful and having higher viewership despite your disdain.

Not sure which part of my point you're referring to. The one where I admitted the point about metrics was definitely true, or the one where I said I don't give a damn about how well it's doing financially?

Or are you just one of those people that turns a "careful with just believing every metric tells the story it says it does" into "so what you're saying is DISMISS EVERY METRIC"?

Very confused.