[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Shadowferal]

I can't wait to kill surprising people that are going to really pain book fans in their deepest heart of hearts...

[Surfd]

So if they are not that big of a threat why does one of the main characters not wear her shawl, with the flame of tar'valon on it, because of the risk it poses from potential children of the light?

Because she is trying to maintain a low profile while literally on a mission to potentially find the reincarnation of one of the most hated/feared men in all of history? Her entire mission revolves around NOT advertising what the hell she is doing to basically ANYONE. She spends most of the first book deliberately hiding from literally everyone, not just the whitecloaks, because not doing so could potentially jeopardize the literal future of the entire world. It has nothing at all to do with her possibly being "scared" of whitecloaks. I mean, for gods sake, they straight up attack the armed encampment of one of the most rabid inquisitors in the WC ranks, who has his own personal small army just, to rescue Perrin on the off chance he might be the chosen one. They don't view the Whitecloaks as a serious threat.

[Xath]

I can't wait to kill surprising people that are going to really pain book fans in their deepest heart of hearts...

See I don't get how you can see someone saying that kind of stuff as amazon and not go hang on a second we should probably read this book and compare it to the script before we end up with a shannara on our hands.

[Surfd]

The books are not relevant that is a fact because barely anyone who watches the show will read the book just because they enjoy the series, fans of the books just have unrealistic expectations or just think the book is better regardless of how good the tv series is, an adaptation doesnt mean it will follow the book series the way it was written and it shouldnt since the fans of the books will then know everything anyway.

Unrealistic expectations........ such as "not fucking the source material up for absolutely no reason at all"? Such a terribly unrealistic expectation. Like, seriously. Absolutely nothing with the way the first book is written would have required pretty much ANY of the changes that were made to plot, pacing or scene direction as made in the "adaptation" for TV. So why change it? Why ram in a whole boatload of needless changes that straight up fuck with major elements of the source material?

Why is it unrealistic to expect a faithful adaptation of the book? Why is it unrealistic to be pissed when we get an absolute hackjob instead?

And why, for the love of god, is "Just accept this pile of shit for what it is and stop comparing it to the vastly superior original source" the constant go to defense of the "adaptation"?

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He's right tho, we have to accept it's not going to be what we want and vote with our views.

He's not right though.

While it is true that we will basically have to accept that the show, as presented, is not what we wanted because it's basically now a done thing, that's not what we are getting at here: What we are getting at is that we shouldn't have to accept that it couldn't have been done better, more accurate to the source.

It could have been much better, and we shouldn't be forced to basically settle for less because the show runner decided to skullfuck it instead of treat it with respect, and we damn sure shouldn't be forced to just "accept it for what it is" as some kind of platitude to the people who find the show to be "good".

That's like saying that someone who has seen Shakespeare performed by world class Theater houses aren't allowed to have an opinion of the only Shakespeare production YOU have seen when the one you watched and consider "good" was produced by 3rd rate hacks. Sure, you may consider it "good", but you functionally have no reference point to compare it to. And then you have the audacity to tell people who have actually seen REAL "good" Shakespeare that they should just accept the quality of the hackjob you are using as your only reference.

[rhorle]

They don't view the Whitecloaks as a serious threat.

Moirane says that a white cloak is a threat to a sister because they are smart enough not to come at one directly. The passage from the book has nothing to do with her keeping a low profile because of her "secret" mission. You are arguing against the book here and unwilling to accept it in favor of your head canon. If you click the google link included in the quote block you can even read the book page.

...and beyond the Shining Walls a sight of the Flame would send too many people running, to hide or perhaps to fetch the Children of the Light. A Whitecloak's arrow was as fatal to an Aes Sedai as to anyone else, and the Children were to wily to let an Aes Sedai see the bowman before the arrow struck, while she still might do something about it." -The Great Hunt, chapter 4 page 45, https://books.google.com/books?id=tu...page&q&f=false

[Surfd]

Moirane says that a white cloak is a threat to a sister because they are smart enough not to come at one directly. The passage from the book has nothing to do with her keeping a low profile because of her "secret" mission. You are arguing against the book here and unwilling to accept it in favor of your head canon. If you click the google link included in the quote block you can even read the book page.

That's like saying that a scorpion in your boot is a threat because you were too dumb to check it before putting it on.

Whitecloaks are only a "threat" to sisters who are unprepared or unaware of them. I am not arguing against the book here. I am arguing that you are not taking the quote you keep posting in the correct context, and are over inflating the amount of "danger" the whitecloaks presented. The quote simply suggests that they can be a danger if they get the jump on a sister or attack them from ambush. It doesn't imply that the sisters actually consider them a serious threat.

They were considered a "threat" the way an unwary traveler might consider a pack of wild dogs a "threat", as opposed to something actually serious, like a band of armed bandits.

[rhorle]

Whitecloaks are only a "threat" to sisters who are unprepared or unaware of them.

So they are a very real threat. You keep trying to marginalize them and the threat they pose. There is a reason why sisters are careful to reveal themselves unless they travel in large numbers. There is a reason why they have warders. I'm pretty sure most sisters consider rabid zealots that want to kill them a serious threat. Because they never know who is an informant like the passage from the book implies. In some parts of Randland people can even be killed for associating or selling things to Aes Sedai.

This entire conversation started because people didn't think Whitecloaks would kill sisters. The only one taking things out of context here is yourself. You seem to be confusing large scale conflicts, and the Whitecloaks just being an annoyance, with small individual encounters where they are a very real threat. Unless you have something to back up that the book was exaggerating your wrong.

[bledgor]

That's like saying that a scorpion in your boot is a threat because you were too dumb to check it before putting it on.

Whitecloaks are only a "threat" to sisters who are unprepared or unaware of them. I am not arguing against the book here. I am arguing that you are not taking the quote you keep posting in the correct context, and are over inflating the amount of "danger" the whitecloaks presented. The quote simply suggests that they can be a danger if they get the jump on a sister or attack them from ambush. It doesn't imply that the sisters actually consider them a serious threat.

They were considered a "threat" the way an unwary traveler might consider a pack of wild dogs a "threat", as opposed to something actually serious, like a band of armed bandits.

Just stop engaging rhole, it is not worth it mate.

[Rennadrel]

Yup, exactly.



He's right tho, we have to accept it's not going to be what we want and vote with our views. After following the amusing discussion I've decided not to give the show a single watch. I'm accepting that I'm a book purist, this is not the show I wanted, and leaving it at that. I don't believe any future seasons will save what's been broken so I'd say to simply ignore those too.

Who knows, maybe in 4 years it'll all turn out alright. And if it flops, because it sucks, WoT will just go back into the hole Amazon dug it out of. Maybe it'll be just successful enough to spawn spinoff media that'll be more true to source. At least, by completely avoiding this version of the show, I don't taint my imagination's version of my favorite characters with a mediocre TV portrayal.

People like you are why entertainment has become so fucking shit. You are more than happy to be apologists for absolute garbage, blatant propaganda or whatever else stupidity the woke morons in Hollywood churn out. And you have the audacity to criticize us because we are being critical of them bastardizing a product with perfectly usable source material. Go pound sand

[jdbond]

the first few books up till moiraine‘s suppose death is rand and co being lead around by woman with them being made out to be “wool heads” who can’t do much on there own. It’s not until moraine is gone for a bit that they really come into there own and start taking charge.

talking about the power structures in the world not the characters arcs. Mat is pretty much not a part of any until the last book or so if you count him helping the Seanchan and Perrin is similar with him only taking charge of the two rivers and what not.

Other wise through almost every power structure that isn’t chandler ran does nothing for most of the series.

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I wouldn’t say the books and show treat them similarly but I also wouldn’t narrow the show down to 99% woman good men bad.

The show is far more heavy handed then the books but I’d say most of the show is still pulling from ideas from the books but instead of us getting to see more flash backs and such to flesh it out like we do in the book the show is just showing us what the actual characters think in the moment.

Ideally if they show gets enough seasons this will stop being a problem and they will take more time to flesh these things out like actually showing why the dragon did what he did or showing the black tower and the reds response to bonding or things like how Moraine says the lead red secretly visits a man ect.

If story is from your perspective and happening around it, it is your story! Who cares about power structure! It's like ranting about Kings and Gods when story is being narrated from a farmer's perspective. Even in first book, Rand followed Moiraine because DO was after him and not because she was some mighty God controlling his life. No one lead Rand. He followed them. Just because women are speaking nonsense doesn't mean any of them could force Rand to do anything.

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The books are not relevant that is a fact because barely anyone who watches the show will read the book just because they enjoy the series, fans of the books just have unrealistic expectations or just think the book is better regardless of how good the tv series is, an adaptation doesnt mean it will follow the book series the way it was written and it shouldnt since the fans of the books will then know everything anyway.

Er..Have you seen Amazon list? Many people did do that..They read the books.

Well I did watch Shanara Chronlines. WoT will be another mediocrity we watched and forgot. GoT on the other hand, is going to stay in popular culture. A benchmark for future shows.

[Shadowferal]

At this point I want Henry Cavill to take over the role of Lan. (That fighting sequence in that marketplace sold me)
He has that presence...just standing still...looking at you like he is going fuck your world up.

[Nynax]

People like you are why entertainment has become so fucking shit. You are more than happy to be apologists for absolute garbage, blatant propaganda or whatever else stupidity the woke morons in Hollywood churn out. And you have the audacity to criticize us because we are being critical of them bastardizing a product with perfectly usable source material. Go pound sand

Apologists? Where in "I'm not going to bother giving them even a single view" is being an apologists? Where in "they won't get my money" is being an apologist? I'm not ranting and raving on random forums, but worse is to rant and rave and watch anyway. You think they care how angry you are if they still get your views?

I choose to object with worse to them than hate, I give disinterest.

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He's not right though.

While it is true that we will basically have to accept that the show, as presented, is not what we wanted because it's basically now a done thing, that's not what we are getting at here: What we are getting at is that we shouldn't have to accept that it couldn't have been done better, more accurate to the source.

It could have been much better, and we shouldn't be forced to basically settle for less because the show runner decided to skullfuck it instead of treat it with respect, and we damn sure shouldn't be forced to just "accept it for what it is" as some kind of platitude to the people who find the show to be "good".

That's like saying that someone who has seen Shakespeare performed by world class Theater houses aren't allowed to have an opinion of the only Shakespeare production YOU have seen when the one you watched and consider "good" was produced by 3rd rate hacks. Sure, you may consider it "good", but you functionally have no reference point to compare it to. And then you have the audacity to tell people who have actually seen REAL "good" Shakespeare that they should just accept the quality of the hackjob you are using as your only reference.

Oh 100% we don't have to accept it, and 100% we all allowed to have opinions. I just don't see the benefit in getting emotional over it anymore. The only time "they" ever seem to care is when it hits their wallets, and even then all we hear are excuses as to why it's everyone else's fault for being bigoted.

So by "accept" I mean, just do the one thing they hate most and don't watch. Invest energy in more beneficial things.

[kenn9530]

Except it isn't delivered the nielsen numbers being trumpeted are less than half as much as were in the first set who knows how bad it will get when they get into the episode 8 numbers. The books have sold 90 million copies and considered one of the more impactful fantasy series in terms of defining the genre.

The series is doing great so what are you talking about, its on par with hawkeye and that is highly rated and its good to watch, wheel of time has not really defined the genre as there were plenty of fantasy books before it and nowhere has it claimed so, its sold about half as much as the LOTRs books, the series is not as well known as you think it is, for someone who doesnt read books they would probably never of heard of wheel of time.

[Xath]

The series is doing great so what are you talking about, its on par with hawkeye and that is highly rated and its good to watch, wheel of time has not really defined the genre as there were plenty of fantasy books before it and nowhere has it claimed so, its sold about half as much as the LOTRs books, the series is not as well known as you think it is, for someone who doesnt read books they would probably never of heard of wheel of time.

It's not lol also why would I care what someone who doesn't read books has heard of there are a tons of movies and TV shows based on books that you would never know because they don't use the name of the books bladerunner being a great example.

[kenn9530]

It's not lol also why would I care what someone who doesn't read books has heard of there are a tons of movies and TV shows based on books that you would never know because they don't use the name of the books bladerunner being a great example.

Simple fact is the tv series is rated pretty high and equal to most of the good tv shows around so dont talk BS, just because you like the books doesnt make the tv series bad, books are for a very small amount of ppl and unless its released as a tv series/film most ppl would never hear of it ever, the tv series is not bad you just have some picture of it because you enjoy the books and since it doesnt meet your expectation you wont ever think its good.

[Lindon]

Simple fact is the tv series is rated pretty high and equal to most of the good tv shows around so dont talk BS, just because you like the books doesnt make the tv series bad, books are for a very small amount of ppl and unless its released as a tv series/film most ppl would never hear of it ever, the tv series is not bad you just have some picture of it because you enjoy the books and since it doesnt meet your expectation you wont ever think its good.

What a load of bull. Wheel of Time has received extremely mediocre to bad ratings. Did you go and ask your one friend what they thought if the series or what?

Both critics and viewers are fairly in agreement that the show is not that good.

[Kreuger]

Simple fact is the tv series is rated pretty high and equal to most of the good tv shows around so dont talk BS, just because you like the books doesnt make the tv series bad, books are for a very small amount of ppl and unless its released as a tv series/film most ppl would never hear of it ever, the tv series is not bad you just have some picture of it because you enjoy the books and since it doesnt meet your expectation you wont ever think its good.

Imdb: 7,3
Rotten: 77% Audience
Metacritic: 55 score & 4,7 User

Its a decent rating for sure, but thats it

[rhorle]

What a load of bull. Wheel of Time has received extremely mediocre to bad ratings. Did you go and ask your one friend what they thought if the series or what?

Between 7 and 8 are bad ratings now? Mediocre fits but extremely does not. The show is still a hit just not exceptional.

[Shadowferal]

Shannara Chronicles is now considered highly rated and a critical success!

[kenn9530]

What a load of bull. Wheel of Time has received extremely mediocre to bad ratings. Did you go and ask your one friend what they thought if the series or what?

Both critics and viewers are fairly in agreement that the show is not that good.

What BS are you talking about the show has got positive ratings 70-80% if you think that is mediocre or bad then you are just lying to yourself, its just a good solid series and thats the facts.