[TV] The Wheel of Time

[rhorle]

Not sure what the disconnect here is, but I am beginning to think that you have a really REALLY skewed definition of "intricate" here.

One is still more intricate then the other. You even agree with what I'm saying despite your continued instinnce on calling me wrong. Because you describe one as bog standard but don't use that for the other one. You are using "polish" to denote the detailed work of the Fableblades version which makes it more intricate. You keep saying I'm wrong while finding different ways to say exactly what I am saying just so you won't have to agree with me.

So if it doesn't have herons on the hilt then the one that does is more intricate, right? It doesn't matter if it is important to the plots of the book because the show is going its own way. There is no reason to shift the goal posts back to that argument as well.

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Notice how they ignore things like...

It is like you are angry that we are not die hard fan boys of the show just so you can keep hating about topics you think of. Lol. If those things are objectivly poor then what is their to discuss about it? Why not focus on the things that share common things from the books and that are not that different.

[jdbond]

It is like you are angry that we are not die hard fan boys of the show just so you can keep hating about topics you think of. Lol. If those things are objectivly poor then what is their to discuss about it? Why not focus on the things that share common things from the books and that are not that different.

But you guys keep saying that show is "good", even great. So how can show be good and bad at the same time?

And why would you even debate books when you famously claimed that this is "different turning of wheel"? So debate the show ignoring that books even exist! But you won't dare, would you? You need the books to "validate the show" while at the same time claiming that "this is new turning of wheel"? You can't have it both ways.

This show stands neither as a good adaptation nor as a show inspired by WoT. Show is mediocre because it is just that. Nothing to do with "story" at all. Story is just one of the many failures but you guys only want to debate the story because this is only way when you can "claim" that show is good, FOR YOU.

I have little interest in matching bullet points. Nothing in show stands out. People also "liked" Transformer movies. Says more about people than the movie itself. There is an audience that loves mindless stupidity.

We merely wish to discuss how good this show is. Debate on that if you dare.

[Nynax]

Saw something similar;

daaamn, Rand be fisting that whole string tho. Lol. That's the secret to Two Rivers archery, gotta fist the whole string.

[Biomega]

And why would you even debate books when you famously claimed that this is "different turning of wheel"?

That's really what most arguments have been inevitably devolving into, here and other places.

"I don't like the show"
"You just don't like it because it's not like the books!"
"No, I just think it's not a good show"
"Well EXCUSE ME for not following the book 100%, this is an ADAPTATION you know"
"Again, that's not what I'm..."
"This is a DIFFERENT TURNING OF THE WHEEL, Mr. Bookcloak!"

[Nynax]

And I believe they do actually point out that Nynaeve has a mental block in one of the earlier episodes and then she breaks through it when lann is dying.

This made me lawl. "Poof" just like that. Something that was a multiple books long struggle apparently just mary sue'd out of character development?

[Surfd]

One is still more intricate then the other. You even agree with what I'm saying despite your continued instinnce on calling me wrong. Because you describe one as bog standard but don't use that for the other one. You are using "polish" to denote the detailed work of the Fableblades version which makes it more intricate. You keep saying I'm wrong while finding different ways to say exactly what I am saying just so you won't have to agree with me.

Sweet sobbing christ......

I have already pointed this out like twice: I am not using the word "polished" to describe some kind of detailed work on the Fableblades version. I am LITERALLY using it to describe the fact that someone took an extra bit of care to LITERALLY POLISH THE FUCKING BLADE. That doesn't add any kind of extra "intricacy" to the product. If I have a dirty butter knife, and I polish it, it's still the exact same fucking knife. I haven't "added" anything to it. You have to be being willfully obtuse to come to that conclusion.....

As for describing one as a "bog standard" katana, that's exactly what it is: A bog standard katana. You could literally pick one up in any crappy Japanese gift shop for less than a hundred bucks, glue their ridiculous heron mark decal onto it, and have something that looked EXACTLY the same as that thing the TV show is using (another detail the the Fableblades version got right: A heron mark is ETCHED into the blade, not a tacky cutout glued on).

I obviously cant describe the Fableblades version as "bog standard" because it's a custom piece. It's not a "bog standard" version of any readily comparable item. If it was a "bog standard" sabre, or a "bog standard" longsword, I would 100% call it as such. But its' not. Doesn't change the fact that it is a plain, basic blade.

I keep telling you you are wrong because you are LITERALLY wrong, and are willfully misusing the word "intricate" in an attempt to twist what I have said into something that was not meant. Neither sword is "intricate". The Fableblades work is more book accurate. That is literally it.

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And why would you even debate books when you famously claimed that this is "different turning of wheel"?

The whole "it's a different turning of the Wheel" thing is and always has been a last ditch desperation attempt to find some kind of "in lore" reason by which to justify handwaving away every failing of the show as an actual "adaptation". It's honestly kind of sad and pathetic.

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You can believe the words of Mr. Judkins or not but he does state every weapon used did take a long effort to make https://twitter.com/rafejudkins/stat...01197612453888 there are more tweets here https://www.tor.com/2020/12/02/check...w-it-was-made/ that are more general

I just finally clicked that Twitter link.

Holy shit on a stick. Rafe is proud of the fact that he thinks 10,000 man/woman hours went into producing that piece of garbage? It's literally a generic Katana with a heron shaped cutout glued on...... Jesus Christ, I wish I could be a member of a prop team that got paid for 10,000 hours worth of work to produce an end product that looks lower quality than something I could buy at the House of Knives boutique store in the local shopping mall for 70 bucks and touch up with a sheetmetal heron cutout that would maybe take a skilled craftsman a couple of hours to make, tops......

[Lorgar Aurelian]

This made me lawl. "Poof" just like that. Something that was a multiple books long struggle apparently just mary sue'd out of character development?

I can't say I even remember how she got past her block in the books but some one going beyond there current capability's in the one power in a time of desperation is taken straight out of the books with a notable example being rand channeling up and heating an igloo when his spear wife ran off naked into the snow.

[Biomega]

Holy shit on a stick. Rafe is proud of the fact that he thinks 10,000 man/woman hours went into producing that piece of garbage?

I think that's the producer equivalent of a billionaire guessing a pint of milk is $50 or whatever. He has no clue, and just picks something he thinks will sound cool.

[rhorle]

But you guys keep saying that show is "good", even great. So how can show be good and bad at the same time?

The same reason B movies can be good, and bad? Different tastes. Not caring about certain aspects as much as you do? You don't merely wish to discuss how good the show is. Most of your time in this thread has been trashing the show any way you can think of. You have been engaged before. You act as if people are afraid of you. They aren't. You just don't bring anything new or worthwhile to the discussion.

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I obviously cant describe the Fableblades version as "bog standard" because it's a custom piece. It's not a "bog standard" version of any readily comparable item. If it was a "bog standard" sabre, or a "bog standard" longsword, I would 100% call it as such. But its' not. Doesn't change the fact that it is a plain, basic blade.

Which again just reinforces that one is more intricate the the other because one is a custom piece that isn't bog standard. Lmao. You just agreed with what I said while ranting why I was wrong. It doesn't matter if the fableblades version is a "plain basic blade" it is still more intricate then the show version because one is bog standard while one is not.

[Nynax]

I can't say I even remember how she got past her block in the books but some one going beyond there current capability's in the one power in a time of desperation is taken straight out of the books with a notable example being rand channeling up and heating an igloo when his spear wife ran off naked into the snow.

I'll Spoiler tag for anyone currently reading: In the books it happens while drowning in Ebou Dar after an attack by Moghedien. After some struggle she accepts that she is going to die, accepts that she really have no control, for the first time ever she surrenders to fate... at that moment she can finally embrace the One Power; it's the first time she's honestly been able to surrender to it. This is after multiple attempts working with multiple Sisters and a long and frustrating struggle to break her block. Finally breaking it was a huge moment of character development. The big difference is that achievement was earned, not a flippant "moment of desperation."

I get the sense that not many achievements in the show are truly earned, that they just sorta happened.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'll Spoiler tag for anyone currently reading: In the books it happens while drowning in Ebou Dar after an attack by Moghedien. After some struggle she accepts that she is going to die, accepts that she really have no control, for the first time ever she surrenders to fate... at that moment she can finally embrace the One Power; it's the first time she's honestly been able to surrender to it. This is after multiple attempts working with multiple Sisters and a long and frustrating struggle to break her block. Finally breaking it was a huge moment of character development. The big difference is that achievement was earned, not a flippant "moment of desperation."

I get the sense that not many achievements in the show are truly earned, that they just sorta happened.

Not sure where I would fall on that counting as earned or not but it’s most defiantly character development.

As far as the show goes through I’d agree every thing around Nynaeve just sort of happens and I think she’s fared the worse of all the characters which sucks as she was my favourite from the books.

Other then her though as far as earned achievements go I’d say it’s mostly done fine. egwene Actively try’s to learn from both Nynaeve and moiraine, Perrin has abunch of moments with the wolfs before they do any thing, rand has some channeling moments and then his scene at the eye of the world.

Though there are of course stand outs like the Evaene’s stupid healing thing.

[Katchii]

Which again just reinforces that one is more intricate the the other because one is a custom piece that isn't bog standard. Lmao. You just agreed with what I said while ranting why I was wrong. It doesn't matter if the fableblades version is a "plain basic blade" it is still more intricate then the show version because one is bog standard while one is not.

Something being "more intricate" than something else doesn't make that thing "intricate." It's a relative term. Just like saying something is "more expensive" than something else.

A double knot is more intricate than a single knot, that doesn't make a double knot an intricate knot. $2 is more expensive than $1, that doesn't make $2 "expensive."

[Shadowferal]

Hmf... I don't recall the explanation as to why male channelers go insane. Since the idea of a gender-oriented One Power seems to have been tossed...the idea that a man goes mad because he has a penis seems kinda...flaccid to me.

[Rennadrel]

Sweet sobbing christ......

I have already pointed this out like twice: I am not using the word "polished" to describe some kind of detailed work on the Fableblades version. I am LITERALLY using it to describe the fact that someone took an extra bit of care to LITERALLY POLISH THE FUCKING BLADE. That doesn't add any kind of extra "intricacy" to the product. If I have a dirty butter knife, and I polish it, it's still the exact same fucking knife. I haven't "added" anything to it. You have to be being willfully obtuse to come to that conclusion.....

As for describing one as a "bog standard" katana, that's exactly what it is: A bog standard katana. You could literally pick one up in any crappy Japanese gift shop for less than a hundred bucks, glue their ridiculous heron mark decal onto it, and have something that looked EXACTLY the same as that thing the TV show is using (another detail the the Fableblades version got right: A heron mark is ETCHED into the blade, not a tacky cutout glued on).

I obviously cant describe the Fableblades version as "bog standard" because it's a custom piece. It's not a "bog standard" version of any readily comparable item. If it was a "bog standard" sabre, or a "bog standard" longsword, I would 100% call it as such. But its' not. Doesn't change the fact that it is a plain, basic blade.

I keep telling you you are wrong because you are LITERALLY wrong, and are willfully misusing the word "intricate" in an attempt to twist what I have said into something that was not meant. Neither sword is "intricate". The Fableblades work is more book accurate. That is literally it.

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The whole "it's a different turning of the Wheel" thing is and always has been a last ditch desperation attempt to find some kind of "in lore" reason by which to justify handwaving away every failing of the show as an actual "adaptation". It's honestly kind of sad and pathetic.

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I just finally clicked that Twitter link.

Holy shit on a stick. Rafe is proud of the fact that he thinks 10,000 man/woman hours went into producing that piece of garbage? It's literally a generic Katana with a heron shaped cutout glued on...... Jesus Christ, I wish I could be a member of a prop team that got paid for 10,000 hours worth of work to produce an end product that looks lower quality than something I could buy at the House of Knives boutique store in the local shopping mall for 70 bucks and touch up with a sheetmetal heron cutout that would maybe take a skilled craftsman a couple of hours to make, tops......

I could make a better looking blade on a CNC mill than that sorry excuse for a sword. A professional katana maker will spend a few months just making the blade.

[rhorle]

A double knot is more intricate than a single knot, that doesn't make a double knot an intricate knot. $2 is more expensive than $1, that doesn't make $2 "expensive."

Your own example agrees with what I am saying lmao. If a double knot is more intricate than a single knot, then the fableblades version is more inticate than the show version. Even if both are plan. It is amazing how you seem to disagree with what I've said while saying the exact same thing as me.

[Mazza]

Your own example agrees with what I am saying lmao. If a double knot is more intricate than a single knot, then the fableblades version is more inticate than the show version. Even if both are plan. It is amazing how you seem to disagree with what I've said while saying the exact same thing as me.

They clearly say that they both are not intricate in the grand scale of things and that is the point. Regardless, I would have loved it if that sword prop was the most important fail of this show. I am a bit confused on how it became such a topic.

[Osperand]

Regarding GoT, They did stick to the books...for the most part. And they focused on characterization first and foremost for the first several seasons. They really had to since they wanted you to feel it when they started killing them off. The show went off the rails only when they ran out of book material..

As opposed to this...Rafe's reinvention of the Wheel of Time... Since season 8, they've dropped the word "adaptation" and now used "based upon" The utter lack of characterization means no one gives a shit about any of the characters...no one remembers "Laila" (hell, "Perrin clearly forgot all about her...), and no one cares that Loial "might" have died. (Stabbed with that dagger he should have died almost instantly.) And there's zero tension regarding death anyway since op Nynaeve can resurrect people. (Which is impossible in the books) Rand has some very important arcs in the first book that gets zero attention...Caemlyn, Elayne, Elaida...his first face off against the White Cloaks...nada. Never donate time to lost causes. If you're a serious reader then you'll find out how much was changed and how important scenes were taken out in favor of idiotic scenes that do absolutely nothing...all the big scenes...that hit emotionally like a sledgehammer, won't make it in this silly parody

Don't be surprised when this show gets cancelled this year.

There are a ton of major changes in the TV series GoT compared to the books. There are too many to list, plenty of fan sites listing them all. My point was that after having read the books it was sad to see it not being the same. Don't read book series before watching is my main point

[kenn9530]

A Ferrari is not a vastly superior automobile to a Ford Focus because most people will never get to drive a Ferrari and so will have to settle for a Focus........ Jesus fucking Christ it hurt my brain even typing that.......

Just face the fact the tv series is good, you have been proven wrong over and over again, if a tv series gets twice or more ppl watching it than the book series getting read then obviously the tv series is superior.

[bledgor]

People need to stop engaging the trolls in this thread, the same few who ignore facts to parrot their beliefs.

The thing that makes me the most sad about season 1 is that there were such deviations/changes from the books/lore of The Wheel of Time that I don't see how it can be course corrected without a full reboot.

Also think when this inevitably gets rebooted years down the road they need to do an animated show, because unless you bottle lightning like Peter Jackson/LoTR, live action won't do it justice.

[Shadowferal]

There are a ton of major changes in the TV series GoT compared to the books. There are too many to list, plenty of fan sites listing them all. My point was that after having read the books it was sad to see it not being the same. Don't read book series before watching is my main point

But there weren't any changes in either characterization, and if there were any changes in the big scenes they weren't significant enough to complain about. (If I recall, the "red wedding" may have been a bit more red)

This "Reinvention of the Wheel" isn't just about changes, it's about creating a completely different story. They went from "adaptation" to "based upon." I think it's safe to say it'll eventually become "inspired by." (Don't count on getting any of the major events in the books.) And what Rafe & Co. have already shown was their collective incompetence in crafting any scenes that have such emotional impact. No one cared about what happened to "Laila" any more than Perrin did. And by the 8th episode no one even remembered her. The "grand mystery" over who the Dragon Reborn was, should have been an omg WOW! moment, but was dealt with a casual flippant "oh by the way, yeah it's Rand." And this doesn't touch upon changes made from the books.

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Just face the fact the tv series is good, .

Yes yes..all because you say so..."so there!" Yea...again a child's argument...kids...

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The thing that makes me the most sad about season 1 is that there were such deviations/changes from the books/lore of The Wheel of Time that I don't see how it can be course corrected without a full reboot.

The first season is the foundation they have to build on...which as you know is a sandy dune.