1. #2941
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Best guess is the dudes in white are the religious nuts? The dude cutting off hands and burning people are the The Inquisition side as the burning the witch was a bit on the nose.
    They could have had their "everyman" exposition moment if they had done it right. In fact, the book specifically has that kind of moment in a scene in a town that the TV series completely cut.

    As for your guess, it's fairly accurate. The whitecloaks are heavily based on medieval catholic church for inspiration, and most of the ones the book characters have direct conflicts with are the zealots from the Inquisition.

  2. #2942
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    As for your guess, it's fairly accurate. The whitecloaks are heavily based on medieval catholic church for inspiration, and most of the ones the book characters have direct conflicts with are the zealots from the Inquisition.
    Only part of the Church specifically the Inquisitions and Teutonic Knights. Other hate groups were part of the inspiration as well.

    Results 1 and 3 at https://www.theoryland.com/intvsresu...n+of+the+Light
    For Children of the Light, the Whitecloaks were inspired by the Inquisition, the SS, the Teutonic Knights and others. In fact, they were inspired by all those groups who say, "We know the truth. It is the only truth. You will believe it, or we will kill you."
    The Children of the Light are all of those people who say I know the truth, my truth is the only truth, you must believe my truth. You must believe my truth, if you refuse to believe my truth I will kill you. I wanted them in there because there are always people like that in any world, and they have a tendency to organize and start killing people that don't believe what they believe, so it is really their similitude. I don't think there can be a world without the haters. Haters exist.
    Answer 7 at https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=183#7 touches a little more on it as well.

    Robert Jordan
    The Whitecloaks? Well, they're meant to look as a religious sect. They began as, an ascetic organization dedicated to preaching against Darkfriends, trying to convince people by example that they should not become Darkfriends. And during the War of the Hundred Years they became a military organization. They are patterned on the Teutonic Knights, a touch of the German SS, and...
    Wood Sun
    [interrupts] And the Spanish Inquisition?
    Robert Jordan
    A touch of the Spanish Inquisition. (laughter) They are in short anyone who believes that they know the Truth—the Truth with a capital T. They know the Truth so well, and its so clear to them that if you don't believe that truth, then it becomes obvious that you are evil.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-01-12 at 05:13 AM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  3. #2943
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    That's...yea.. That's a nice sword. And at that price...a really nice sword.
    You going to study the blade Shadow?

  4. #2944
    Bloodsail Admiral Smallfruitbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    "but she is clearly not important to "the adaption" because the galaxy brains running the show can just mash her reveal into some other character's space in the script and it will totally be just as earth shatteringly significant so nothing will be lost"

    Knowing Rafe, they will somehow try to stick it into Moraines character arc or something in season 4 (assuming they ever get that far).

    - - - Updated - - -

    In that case, I can't wait for Moiraine to reveal Egger's dress is green! -again, seeing what Rafe has done to the series, I wouldn't be surprised.

  5. #2945
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    You going to study the blade Shadow?
    Once upon a time that'd be on the bucket list. A martial arts acquaintance thought I was very familiar with "living in mushin" and pointed me in the direction of a..."fencing" teacher.

  6. #2946
    Quote Originally Posted by Smallfruitbat View Post
    In that case, I can't wait for Moiraine to reveal Egger's dress is green! -again, seeing what Rafe has done to the series, I wouldn't be surprised.
    If the show survives this long, I can't wait to see clips on youtube (since I won't be watching any more shows) to see Egwene raised to the Yellow Ajah when she gets to the tower (since she healed death....) and Nynaeve raised to the Red Ajah (since they made Lan such a dick that she is now going to "justifiably" hate men).

    I was going to say I can't wait to see Moiraine reveal herself to be Black just so she could out that Ajah, but this show likely has no Black Ajah.


    At this point, its just comical... enjoy the nonsense and don't take it too seriously.

  7. #2947
    Perrin...such a waste.
    His moments with Elyas, the wolves...then with the Tinkers, that had Raen tell the tale of a battle of a squad of Far Dareis Mai against 10x their number of trollocs, the dying maiden telling him that the Dark One means to blind the Eye...(this could have made an incredible cut-scene)...

    ...I just can't even...ugh

  8. #2948
    Quote Originally Posted by Smallfruitbat View Post
    In that case, I can't wait for Moiraine to reveal Egger's dress is green! -again, seeing what Rafe has done to the series, I wouldn't be surprised.
    Nah Moiraine is secretly a green and the green are the evil ajah because they dislike how the reds do things and the reds are the true heroes of rafe of time.

  9. #2949
    The show ruined the book.

    THe book has very clear defined gender roles, that everyone can understand even though it's not the case in our society today and the left denies this reality stupidly crazily.. as if protesting would make the reality of males and females seize to be to please activists who try very hard to redefine gender and specifically target entertainment as it is the main driving force and most influential part of culture.

    So those show runners changed teh wheel of time. Signficant changes, becaus they cannot be honest about life, or people that live differently from them, or believe different..such cannot exist.. sot hey turned things around.

    Been reading up to book 5 of the wheel of time.. you feel like you are in a different world, but one that is real enough and understandable enough in a refreshingly humorous and candid way. Different but believable for sure.

    They spoilt it all, with all their "woke" changes that didn't need to be made. Because they had to insert their religion and ideology, so the source material is changed well beyond what is necessary to compile the series. And so doing, is so much less charming than the books.

  10. #2950
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    The show ruined the book.
    True.

    THe book has very clear defined gender roles, that everyone can understand even though it's not the case in our society today and the left denies this reality stupidly crazily.. as if protesting would make the reality of males and females seize to be to please activists who try very hard to redefine gender and specifically target entertainment as it is the main driving force and most influential part of culture.
    And then you went off the deep end into crazypants territory.

    The book wasn't about "clearly defined gender roles" so much as it was about a "somewhat nuanced fantasy world take on the battle of the sexes" kind of thing, which are absolutely not the same thing AT ALL. Anyone who thinks the book was about "clearly defined gender roles" straight up missed the ENTIRE point of several of the cultures in the series, including the Aiel, the Ebu Dari, and a number of others. Jordan was a little ahead of his time in regards to some of the way he dealt with gender in the series.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2022-01-13 at 04:52 AM.

  11. #2951
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    True.

    And then you went off the deep end into crazypants territory.

    The book wasn't about "clearly defined gender roles" so much as it was about a "somewhat nuanced fantasy world take on the battle of the sexes" kind of thing, which are absolutely not the same thing AT ALL. Anyone who thinks the book was about "clearly defined gender roles" straight up missed the ENTIRE point of several of the cultures in the series, including the Aiel, the Ebu Dari, and a number of others. Jordan was a little ahead of his time in regards to some of the way he dealt with gender in the series.
    Yes he was ahead of his time in written fantasy fiction in how he portrayed people and cultures.. and with surprising realism in a way most fiction was either not acknolwedging the reality around them or too characterised by the standard formula.

    And no, you are also correct the book wasn't about clearly defined gender roles at all, but it had a lot of humour and focus on men views on women, and female views on men. The show seems to just want to deny that men exist in a very activist mindset, that seems to come straight out of the ultra fem manifesto and is rewriting and reframing a lot of entertainment, where they've infiltrated (and I use that term intentionally if sardonically

    I point that out as the main motivation for all the changes in the show. None of the changes are necessary, and all of them seem to fit an ultra feminist view of the world and women, that is both unrealistic , heavily biased against men, and man hating in appearance.

    It's no coincidence that from the book, all the moments the male characters shine are either diminished, ignored/changed or swapped to be replaced by women.

    I had little else conclusion to reach. I have seen this mindset before. From people I work with, their views are utterly ridiculous, and knowing what the source material of the book writes and what the show chose to do, and comparing the two, it is so clear to see.


    It completely changes the flavour and tone of the book, but not in a way that enhances the book for me, and i would wager, for the majority of people. But enhances it for the crazy ultra left who think or wet dream his for a realiy.

    I have always found that or believed at least that fantasy needed to be as real as possible in how things we are familiar with, like human emotion, interactions, the way we operate, if you are portraying humans ofc, and be as grounded as possible in relatable things to balance out all the fantasy unreal elements.. whether they are allegories (like they arein some of the best works) or just imaginative additions that help flavour and characterise a particular story.


    I respected Jordan's books for that, and while I rated the series as 10/10, still there was room for improvement in a lot of things, especially when translating onto the screen. A show could have been even better than the book. Rand is a classic example, sometimes I don't think Jordan brings him across as well as can be, as he spends so much time on his conflicts, the volume makes it easy to forget how likeable Rand is, and how victimised he is, but instead comes off a bit more tyrannical and angry. That balance can be fixed by an amazing actor and scene sequences that show him in an even better light .


    Still, in his book, both sexes are mocked and praised, shown both their good and bad sides. In the show, everything is the women, and what is worse, some of the most awful things the do are presented as cool and a good thing... which to me smacks of agenda and ideology, a twisted way of viewing humans.. case and example, is Siuan Sanche's tyrannical speech - which one of my activist colleagues seems to think is amazing, and I know she is loving the power trip, but i look at it and go, whether it's a man saying those things or a woman, those are awful things to say and an awful view of the world and people around you. Further more, that as very far from the Siuan Sanche of the books and the character of the Aes Sedai, who despite the suspicion of the world, were actually a good lot, you could see this plainly.. they gentled Logain and would care for such men, in the book, in the show, they are tyrannical.


    This is just one of many things. The charm of the books, that lies in the characters and their journey is cut. To "focus" on Moiraine",they've removed the heart of the written series which follows 5-7 very relatable characters, and basically one of the things the series is best for - character development and showing people "this is how you do power creep" ... framing a realistic world too, that had all the diversity already in it, not needing to force more change existing characters to fit. THe list goes on.

    All to what? Make it Game of Thrones with female power tripping? It's disgusting. This is not how life works, or human beings are, neither men, nor women Jordan shows powerful women, and man hating women, and good women - the way he writes them is far more realistic than the drivel agenda driven crap we get in the show, by writers who think they know better, and insert their views to "improve", but ultimately clearly are inserting their fanfic and fantasy into a work that isn't theirs.


    I's shameful.. do you know his wife was his editor? And she had a lot of influence on the book and it's characters? His grasp of women was too good, too spot on, in ways that made you believe this was a woman thinking and this was a man thinking when it was the male characters, framed by the cultural definitions of the sexes in a more traditional setting (we call it traditional today, but until recently, this was just how it was) I thought, he must either e a very perceptive and wise man, or a woman's hand is in this book as well, and later, I found out, a woman's hand was, very much in all the chapters of the book.. in some of the books she did more of the writing than he, when he was very ill. I totally believed this was how women viewed us, and it helped when he told things from the male perspective, I could totally relate to it. It fit and was characterised too well, how could i not see he clearly had help and it was confirmed later on.


    It explained a lot. Most of my fun memories, the charming nature of the characters and the gender warring was delightful, humuorus and realistic even though OTT in a cheeky charming way.. all gone. The show seems to want to deny females have flaws, while adopting them in a role hat is dreadful, but then they view that as a good thing.. it's so messed up. Ruined,

    It comes off as an ordinary, yet another run of he mill 2020s fantasy, having all the messed up social cues, messaging and activism that plagued entertainment during this period - and oh yes, this is how history will view this period in entertainment.
    Last edited by Mace; 2022-01-13 at 10:39 AM.

  12. #2952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Once upon a time that'd be on the bucket list. A martial arts acquaintance thought I was very familiar with "living in mushin" and pointed me in the direction of a..."fencing" teacher.
    Fencing is the sword fighting equivalent of two children hitting each other with pool noodles. Learn to draw and wield a katana like a samurai without cutting your fingers off? Now that's a real art form.

  13. #2953
    For the sake of any interest;
    Swiped from Dragonmount, which was taken from Reddit:

    Since the /r/WoT discussion is riddled with back and forth "no she didn't say that, not exactly!", here's all of her Insta stories presented exactly as they are, and a full transcript.
    Full video here
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah Nakamura
    So in December, I thought it'd be a really great time to take a step back from social media, and just focus on my family, relax, unplug. I did - it was wonderful, I turned off all notifications for social media and had only a very select few people who can actually reach me via text.

    Uhmm, it was amazing, and I think, just like, the best decision I've ever made in my whole life. But like, *giggles*, I turned on my Instagram notifications last night or the day before, and the stuff that is still coming through from Episode 8 is cracking me up.

    Some people are so pressed about Episode 8 that they're coming for my throat - and I find it absolutely hysterical, to be perfectly honest, because it's all men, and I guarantee you that if I were a man they would not be coming at me with that same energy because, guaranteed, they are not going after any of the other people that may have helped to provide support for this show, with that same energy. Guaranteed that it is not happening, so, I'm finding that absolutely hysterical, and uhmm, just the fact that, I'm not bothered - I'm so proud of Episode 8!

    The end of the Eye of the World is difficult from a book perspective, and so, how we wrapped everything up while hitting some of the peaks of this scene when it comes to the confrontation at the Eye I felt were right on the money. We also planted a lot of seeds within that whole episode that will bear fruit in the coming seasons, and I felt like it was done deftly and surgically and we just kinda left things to grow, and I am so thrilled with all of that. But man!

    Some of you guys really need to take a deep breath, relax, and, think twice about coming after a stranger on the Internet. For those of you asking, I sleep very well at night, and I'm really really proud of the work that I do and the support that I provide. But gonna need for people that are questioning me to looking up the meaning of "consultant" and also the meaning of "advice". I am not a producer - bottom line - I am not a producer, I can't make anyone do anything and I don't let things happen because I'm not a decision-maker. I provide support, I advise, and fight battles that maybe feel like I need to fight? *cuts off*

    And just to wrap all of this up, I am all in on the outline and the vision of what is happening for this show - I'm fully sold on all of Season 1 and I am committed to the story that we're telling and how we're telling it, and at the end of the day, super super happy with all of it, and so I support our showrunner with my full heart, and kindly thank you, no, I will not be killing myself, so stop asking.

  14. #2954
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    No idea who that is, and telling someone to kill themselves or threaten is obviously garbage behaviour. That being said, without having seen this and just reading the transcript the finding it hysterical and giggling comes off as anything but a chill attitude to it. If anything it reads like a coping mechanism to my brain-without-a-psych-degree.

  15. #2955
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantique View Post
    No idea who that is
    Token book fan, hired on as an expert on the book series. As I understand it Rafe was using her fan status for marketing and she propped herself up a bit in social media circles...

  16. #2956
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Token book fan, hired on as an expert on the book series. As I understand it Rafe was using her fan status for marketing and she propped herself up a bit in social media circles...
    Token book fan? Why so insulting and dismissive? Red Eagle has worked with fans in the past for things. She was hired as a consultant for the current TV show which isn't just marketing and "token" status.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  17. #2957
    The Patient Mazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Token book fan, hired on as an expert on the book series. As I understand it Rafe was using her fan status for marketing and she propped herself up a bit in social media circles...
    I mean, she is not wrong about being basically irrelevant to the show, so I don't really care what she is saying or doing.

  18. #2958
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantique View Post
    No idea who that is, and telling someone to kill themselves or threaten is obviously garbage behaviour. That being said, without having seen this and just reading the transcript the finding it hysterical and giggling comes off as anything but a chill attitude to it. If anything it reads like a coping mechanism to my brain-without-a-psych-degree.
    She's delusional. Any talk about her had been saying that Rafe must just have been ignoring her like he admitted he has been Sanderson. She supposedly loves the series and has claimed to read it like a dozen times but sounds like her favorite ajah is red.

  19. #2959
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Token book fan? Why so insulting and dismissive? Red Eagle has worked with fans in the past for things. She was hired as a consultant for the current TV show which isn't just marketing and "token" status.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah Nakamura
    But gonna need for people that are questioning me to looking up the meaning of "consultant" and also the meaning of "advice". I am not a producer - bottom line - I am not a producer, I can't make anyone do anything and I don't let things happen because I'm not a decision-maker. I provide support, I advise, and fight battles that maybe feel like I need to fight?
    That seems like a pretty straightforward admission that she, is, infact a "token book fan" as far as the production of the TV series is concerned.

    I mean, if you get hired as a "consultant" by someone who by all appearances is basically ignoring almost everything the book does while making his "adaptation", then what exactly are you "consulting" on? If you have no power to affect anything and the main guy who does is going hog wild making the show as "not book" as possible, why does he even need a "book consultant"? What's the point of "advising" if the person you are advising probably doesn't actually care about your advice and is going to do whatever the hell they want anyway?

    How do you justify calling yourself a "fan" of the books, and then staying on to claim you are "proud" of the act of butchery that resulted, unless you have decided the paycheck is worth more than your pride. At this point, I would be more willing to call her a sellout than a fan.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2022-01-14 at 05:18 AM.

  20. #2960
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    That seems like a pretty straightforward admission that she, is, infact a "token book fan" as far as the production of the TV series is concerned.
    So by your logic everyone but Rafe is a "token employee" since he has the final say? You are just looking for ways to insult and demean a person just because you don't like the show. She even has a credit for the Winter Dragon short film because she answered an e-mail question about the book series for Red Eagle and I think also got a pre-screening.

    Her job is much more then just a token fan for marketing and PR. Just because it isn't a faithful adaptation doesn't mean they still won't check for stuff. Mr. Sanderson consulted as well but will he be relegated to "token hire"?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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