[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Rennadrel]

Literally gutting Caemlyn out suggests that there will be zero character development between Rand and Elayne, because ya know, reasons. They've molested Rand's whole character and story arc so badly that it's not even in the same bloody galaxy as the books. Anyone who watches the show and then reads the books is going to be thoroughly surprised and maybe even annoyed that the narrative is not what they thought.

[Aphrel]

It's tricky to weave, but saying that you're not interested in appealing to the hardcore fans of the books is pretty dumb. LOTR made changes but the overall story stayed the same. Here's how Rafe Judkins would have done Lord of the Rings:

Episode 1: Rosie Cotton POV. Bilbo Baggins is throwing a big obnoxious party and pisses everyone off by disappearing. Sam is drunk and puking, so Rosie brings him home. What can she do? You can't find any better men.

Episode 2: Rosie discovers that Frodo is going mad from the one ring. Lady Galadriel arrives and tells Rosie she has to bring Frodo and Sam to Mount Doom. She leaves behind Gandalf, a wizard who is always high from smoking too much weed, to help them on the journey.

Episode 3: The hobbits are helpless in the wild, but Rosie gets things in order. She makes a camp, she hunts for food, and she even gets Gandalf to give up pot after she hits him several times with a walking stick. There's some debate about which way to go, and they listen to Frodo and end up attacked by Black Riders. Gandalf, finally sober, keeps them off. They all decide to follow Rosie from now on.

Episode 4: Love triangle, Sam and Frodo fighting over Rosie attracts more Black Riders, and they barely make it to Rivendell where they are saved by Arwen.

Episode 5: New Fellowship of the Ring: Legolas is a female, Arwen takes Aragorn's place, Rosie obviously involved. Off to Moria.

Episode 6: In Moria. Pippen makes too much noise, attracting the Balrog. Gandalf is knocked off a bridge, but Rosie saves them. It turns out that Elrond gave Rosie his ring of power and she uses it to defeat the Balrog.

Episode 7: Galadriel. Don't have to change this part much.

Episode 8: Boromir and Frodo both go mad and start fighting over the ring. Rosie, after fighting off several hundred Orcs, kills Boromir (good riddance, he's a man), then uses her ring to cure Frodo of his madness. Arwen goes off to win the battles of the two towers while Rosie brings Sam and Frodo towards Mount Doom.

There would be two more seasons, the last one ending with Frodo and Sam both going completely mad and Rosie throwing them both into Mount Doom then passionately making out with Arwen after they reunite over the ruins of Barad-dur.

The most insane part by all of this is that this is isnt even an exaggerated comparision to the current wot shitshow^^

[Xath]

listen. you are entitled to your opinion. I'm just saying that when characters show up in a narrative, so far all but Moiraine show up in my minds eye looking like their show counterparts. I'm saying that I like show's casting choices for the most part and the actors themselves I doing a good job IMO feeling like the characters they are portraying (narratives they are given I sometimes question cough Layla and that damn love triangle" but the acting itself? works for me), and I even understand why they would chose to condense some of the narrative beats, because holy hell things take FOREVER to happen in a book. Some of it is just descriptions of the characters or the world, but some of it works in a book to give you more of a feel of the world, but would just feel like a slog in a TV show. heck it almost feels like a slog in the book as well.

Yes the books that constantly remarked on people being fascinated by different hair colors or even eye color let alone skin tone definitely should have an NYC level or multi ethnicity in a tiny backwater village on the edge of forever. If everyone besides Rand looked similar including secondary cast it would be semi acceptable but they don't. Even Rand is only supposed to stand out for his hair height and eyes. His skin tone isn't even remarked on until Elaida raises his shirt sleeve to reveal untanned skin. Aka he has a farmers tan just like the others he isn't meant to be pasty white. The casting is almost as bad as the changes made to story. Min is one of the worst castings basically ever. She is supposed to be a couple years older not decades and she's pretty clearly not described as Asian but hey her name is Min so rafe casts her as Asian which is definitely not racist at all. Same with Lan. The cultures in wheel became super jumbled because of the breaking. Shienar for example is largely EU racial appearance possibly Spain but heavy heavy Japanese cultural influences. The only super mixed culture is the Seanchan because they absorbed conquered groups and the original group sent was when the land was united under Hawkwing. Rand coming starts to break those barriers Tam marrying an outlander was a huge deal in TR in the book version. In the show version that makes no sense because the various races are already smashed together in a tiny village with no outside contact. Part of the thing that makes it obvious the Dragon had come is all the various groups start coming together rather than staying split apart.

[Orby]

The thing that still baffles me is that when the constraint of 8 episodes was known, they still ADDED stuff that did nothing to enhance the narrative, like the Steffen arc. I would trade those bits for more important stuff that was actually cut (so far), like Caemlyn, in a heartbeat.

That's the only thing about the series I really couldn't get past. Nothing else really bothered me (except for some reason the effects got worse towards the end of the series, but I digress. Also Loial. poor poor Loial, what did they do to you? lol.

I will give season 2 another chance, and put the first season down to first season blues. Hopefully with a second season their budget has increased and are given more freedom for more episodes. Once again I would struggle to even put book 2 into eight episodes. So I hope they let season 2 breath more.

[Adam Jensen]

Christ.

I just saw the first episode and I can't get over how bad this shit was.

[bledgor]

Christ.

I just saw the first episode and I can't get over how bad this shit was.

IT gets worse, much much much worse.

[Smallfruitbat]

Christ.

I just saw the first episode and I can't get over how bad this shit was.

I would stop there, the show runners plumb new depths of trash as it goes on.

[Orby]

Christ.

I just saw the first episode and I can't get over how bad this shit was.

yea doesn't getting better. episode 1 is really the peak :P

[Celement]

To be honest they would of had a far better shot at telling a compelling story if they simply set it in the universe. The wheel of time is so heavy on inner dialogues I can't see any plausible way to covert that into another media without it just be inner monologues the tv series.

[Noxina]

I enjoyed it, once I managed to not compare it to the books.

The books are still there, now we just get another medium to enjoy.

[Adam Jensen]

To be honest they would of had a far better shot at telling a compelling story if they simply set it in the universe. The wheel of time is so heavy on inner dialogues I can't see any plausible way to covert that into another media without it just be inner monologues the tv series.

I was just thinking that. The story is built up on layers of layers of exposition. Part of why episode 1 didn't work for me was because it skipped over so much exposition that becomes necessary down the road, some of it immediately in Eye of the World, and some in later books.

Like

Tam Al'lthor and the Flame and the Void
Tam's feverish rambling after he's injured
Moiraine's speech about Manetherin
The prohibition on saying the Dark One's name
The insular nature of the Two Rivers
Discussions about foreigners especially concerning the Dragon, the Aiel and the war in Gheldean (barely mentioned in the show)

This context (and I'm sure I didn't hit everything) is required build up and the show glossed over or entirely skipped most of it. Thing is though, if you include this stuff, you have a slow moving pilot with a lot of exposition and very little action, and that might be too much to hold an audience, while skipping this stuff gives a story that doesn't make a lot of sense or give the context the viewer needs to understand the story and the world.

I'm not entirely sure the Wheel of Time can be brought to TV, maybe it can, but this particular series was a failure.

[Celement]

I was just thinking that. The story is built up on layers of layers of exposition. Part of why episode 1 didn't work for me was because it skipped over so much exposition that becomes necessary down the road, some of it immediately in Eye of the World, and some in later books.

Like

Tam Al'lthor and the Flame and the Void
Tam's feverish rambling after he's injured
Moiraine's speech about Manetherin
The prohibition on saying the Dark One's name
The insular nature of the Two Rivers
Discussions about foreigners especially concerning the Dragon, the Aiel and the war in Gheldean (barely mentioned in the show)

This context (and I'm sure I didn't hit everything) is required build up and the show glossed over or entirely skipped most of it. Thing is though, if you include this stuff, you have a slow moving pilot with a lot of exposition and very little action, and that might be too much to hold an audience, while skipping this stuff gives a story that doesn't make a lot of sense or give the context the viewer needs to understand the story and the world.

I'm not entirely sure the Wheel of Time can be brought to TV, maybe it can, but this particular series was a failure.

I can't see the wheel of time every working... the universe sure but so much of the plot is based around how characters infer from one another ( almost of the chosen work that way for their plots never mind main characters).

It is a decent universe to tell stories in... the borderlands pre the wheels of time story would of worked well or fall of the city that became a rival to the dark one...

Just the main plot is set and can't really be adapted to any other medium save audiobook.

[Mace]

I was just thinking that. The story is built up on layers of layers of exposition. Part of why episode 1 didn't work for me was because it skipped over so much exposition that becomes necessary down the road, some of it immediately in Eye of the World, and some in later books.

Like

Tam Al'lthor and the Flame and the Void
Tam's feverish rambling after he's injured
Moiraine's speech about Manetherin
The prohibition on saying the Dark One's name
The insular nature of the Two Rivers
Discussions about foreigners especially concerning the Dragon, the Aiel and the war in Gheldean (barely mentioned in the show)

This context (and I'm sure I didn't hit everything) is required build up and the show glossed over or entirely skipped most of it. Thing is though, if you include this stuff, you have a slow moving pilot with a lot of exposition and very little action, and that might be too much to hold an audience, while skipping this stuff gives a story that doesn't make a lot of sense or give the context the viewer needs to understand the story and the world.

I'm not entirely sure the Wheel of Time can be brought to TV, maybe it can, but this particular series was a failure.

It's a poor adaptation - they shoulld do a reboot like Final fantasy did, and actually try and tell the actual story.

jordan literally wrote a series that should be super easy to adapt. just add some talent to really bring out the suspense, tension, the heroism, the magic and the wonder etc...

but as most people are saying, the show seems to be more concerned about preaching it's own message rather than telling the story that millions worldwide loved, and so ended up being a very mediocre production that was confusing, lacked any of the attachment and compelling immersion in the characters and ethos t, not to mention the mystery that had some sense to it, that are all present in the books.

You'd have to try really hard to mess it up this badly. They just wanted a platform to preach their message, so they converted a popular series .. I think they're genuinely shocked i'ts not popular, and are blaming every rfan critical of it for it's disappointing performance - everyone but themselves and their agenda driven adaptation.

[Rennadrel]

I was just thinking that. The story is built up on layers of layers of exposition. Part of why episode 1 didn't work for me was because it skipped over so much exposition that becomes necessary down the road, some of it immediately in Eye of the World, and some in later books.

Like

Tam Al'lthor and the Flame and the Void
Tam's feverish rambling after he's injured
Moiraine's speech about Manetherin
The prohibition on saying the Dark One's name
The insular nature of the Two Rivers
Discussions about foreigners especially concerning the Dragon, the Aiel and the war in Gheldean (barely mentioned in the show)

This context (and I'm sure I didn't hit everything) is required build up and the show glossed over or entirely skipped most of it. Thing is though, if you include this stuff, you have a slow moving pilot with a lot of exposition and very little action, and that might be too much to hold an audience, while skipping this stuff gives a story that doesn't make a lot of sense or give the context the viewer needs to understand the story and the world.

I'm not entirely sure the Wheel of Time can be brought to TV, maybe it can, but this particular series was a failure.

Don't forget the gutting of Mat's story arc involving the dagger of Shadar Logoth, which literally ties him at the hip to Padan Fain (one of the more nefarious of the villains that is focused on) for the majority of the series.

- - - Updated - - -

It's a poor adaptation - they shoulld do a reboot like Final fantasy did, and actually try and tell the actual story.

jordan literally wrote a series that should be super easy to adapt. just add some talent to really bring out the suspense, tension, the heroism, the magic and the wonder etc...

but as most people are saying, the show seems to be more concerned about preaching it's own message rather than telling the story that millions worldwide loved, and so ended up being a very mediocre production that was confusing, lacked any of the attachment and compelling immersion in the characters and ethos t, not to mention the mystery that had some sense to it, that are all present in the books.

You'd have to try really hard to mess it up this badly. They just wanted a platform to preach their message, so they converted a popular series .. I think they're genuinely shocked i'ts not popular, and are blaming every rfan critical of it for it's disappointing performance - everyone but themselves and their agenda driven adaptation.

Which is kind of ironic when you think about it. The story is diverse, the story has great female characters and they are literally the power structure within it and some of the most prominent people of power within the series are also female monarchs, not to mention the Aes Sedai. The difference is that characters like Egwene and Nynaeve take time to build up, they have to go through their struggles, their moments of innocence and weakness as young women, before they get to that point. Egwene's experience with the Seanchan was definitely her coming out moment as far as her ability to channel and she develops wisdom through her training with the Aiel later on that helps her mature (and I feel like Sanderson kinda messed her up by making her hot headed in AMoL). Once Nynaeve breaks her barrier, it puts her on a pedestal that few Aes Sedai her age have held since the Age of Legends as far as her abilities and the fact that she kicks the ass of one of the Chosen is a pretty big deal. Why the fuck was all of that character development pigeonholed for a coming out moment that was supposed to belong to Rand at the end of the 8th episode?

[Shadowferal]

Dated last year...Wheel of Time Prequel Film Trilogy In The Works

Not seeing any movement...

[Rennadrel]

Dated last year...Wheel of Time Prequel Film Trilogy In The Works

Not seeing any movement...

Oh god, it'll be even worse, guaranteed.

[Mace]

Which is kind of ironic when you think about it. The story is diverse, the story has great female characters and they are literally the power structure within it and some of the most prominent people of power within the series are also female monarchs, not to mention the Aes Sedai.

I know right - and it goes to show that these people are not interested in diversity really, nor in equality - but their own weird cult-like crazed stuppurd super cranked up rhetoric. I went through the entire book series again between January and March 2022 - and RJ had it all. Strong women, different races/ethnicities, gay characters and homosexuality, even a form of transgenderism - while presenting an authentic world in terms of people that aren't fixed to some weird ideology the activists are leaning into. But in Jordan's work, everyone could Identify with something, men and women were not the same but overall seemed pretty even to me, unlike the show that seems to think they need to be "diverse" by rubbishing males, and changing an already well balanced story and world.

Once this phase passes in society people would look back and just write them all off as under some weird mental influence exacerbated by the placebo effect of rising global social media.

The difference is that characters like Egwene and Nynaeve take time to build up, they have to go through their struggles, their moments of innocence and weakness as young women, before they get to that point. Egwene's experience with the Seanchan was definitely her coming out moment as far as her ability to channel and she develops wisdom through her training with the Aiel later on that helps her mature (and I feel like Sanderson kinda messed her up by making her hot headed in AMoL). Once Nynaeve breaks her barrier, it puts her on a pedestal that few Aes Sedai her age have held since the Age of Legends as far as her abilities and the fact that she kicks the ass of one of the Chosen is a pretty big deal. Why the fuck was all of that character development pigeonholed for a coming out moment that was supposed to belong to Rand at the end of the 8th episode?

One of the things that Jordan's series does better than any other fantasy, including Tolkein is his character build up, all the characters get an incredible build up to their power levels, and it feels authentic, this is not easy to do, especially given how incredible their rise is - I mean in particular Rand and Egwene, Egwene doesn't have any Ta'veren help to get where she gets, but it works, better than any series I have read.

SO to the male characters, the 3 boys in particular achieve some incredible growth, and by the time of their final bloom in the last book, they are really incredible, but you totally buy it because of the story and the background and the build up done, although the show decides that this is not relevant nor is it important - because you know we have to make the Wheel of Time some woke Game of Thrones, rather than just make it what it is, Wheel of Time a book series I felt was superior to Game of Thrones.

[Gumble]

So they are casting white guys to play Asian parts, a black girl to play a ginger, and a ginger to play the golden-haired Elayne.


I'm...... wow..... all those times people said RJ was overly descriptive in his books to the point of annoynance...... I guess he wasn't nearly descriptive enough.


Thank goodness I'm beyond the point of doing anything other than laugh at this show. I'll see more of it on youtube making fun of it than I will through Amazon. It makes me feel for LOTR fans.... you're in for a rough time.







(Oh, and before anyone says, "BUT THEY WERE THE BEST ACTORS!!!!"...... we all saw Season 1..... they didn't cast good actors, so just stop)

[Noxina]

So they are casting white guys to play Asian parts, a black girl to play a ginger, and a ginger to play the golden-haired Elayne.


I'm...... wow..... all those times people said RJ was overly descriptive in his books to the point of annoynance...... I guess he wasn't nearly descriptive enough.


Thank goodness I'm beyond the point of doing anything other than laugh at this show. I'll see more of it on youtube making fun of it than I will through Amazon. It makes me feel for LOTR fans.... you're in for a rough time.







(Oh, and before anyone says, "BUT THEY WERE THE BEST ACTORS!!!!"...... we all saw Season 1..... they didn't cast good actors, so just stop)

Ironic how you decided to rant a bit, but you're "beyond the point of doing anything other than laugh at this show". Just dont watch it if you dont like it? No need to come here and have some empty complaint about how actors look, as if that matters in a fantasy show. Atleast do like everyone else; have a fit over how they fucked up the show compared to the books.

Or just keep quiet, read the books again to cleanse your mind.

[Xath]

I was just thinking that. The story is built up on layers of layers of exposition. Part of why episode 1 didn't work for me was because it skipped over so much exposition that becomes necessary down the road, some of it immediately in Eye of the World, and some in later books.

Like

Tam Al'lthor and the Flame and the Void
Tam's feverish rambling after he's injured
Moiraine's speech about Manetherin
The prohibition on saying the Dark One's name
The insular nature of the Two Rivers
Discussions about foreigners especially concerning the Dragon, the Aiel and the war in Gheldean (barely mentioned in the show)

This context (and I'm sure I didn't hit everything) is required build up and the show glossed over or entirely skipped most of it. Thing is though, if you include this stuff, you have a slow moving pilot with a lot of exposition and very little action, and that might be too much to hold an audience, while skipping this stuff gives a story that doesn't make a lot of sense or give the context the viewer needs to understand the story and the world.

I'm not entirely sure the Wheel of Time can be brought to TV, maybe it can, but this particular series was a failure.

I don't think it can be done as a live action. I believe it could be done animated but the problem is to actually give the story the room to breathe it needs each book needs at least 1 season and the entire story takes about 2 years real time so the actors and actresses would change too much to do that. But with animation you can definitely do that.