[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Mace]

The TV show has made me come to appreciate the books more though lol

yeh, this, I certainly appreciated the book more after watching it. Went back and audio listened to the whole thing, and i was surprised how good it is.


it's loong, but it's epic, character depth and growth is the bst in fantasy to date. Best magic system too, and the scope is certainly epic , right up there with the greats.

It also ended very strongly and well, which is so hard for such big sagas - look at what happened to Game of Thrones

but it's best feature was it's likeability and fantasy - it is a classic hero story, but with such charm, and the humour mixed with seriousness.. the danger feels real, the humour has you cracking up, it makes so much sense relatability wise, whether male or female, I know this man and his wife wrote it together, no way one person could have such insight to people of both genders.

It feels good all round without being boring and placid, there is danger but their is also courage.


It may seem average, but it does so much well. It isn't without its flaws either, but it's one of the best out there, and all they needed to do was replicate it and capture it's charm, and complexity.

But they weren't interested in that.

- - - Updated - - -

Every time I read something like this I remember just how fucking terrible of a hack PoS writer Rafe is to have bastardized a beloved story so horribly. I can only hope the few people I know still on board get either the massive improvements they want, or Rafe follows through on the shit stain that was episode 8 and firmly destroys the show so it can die.

I also feel a bit sad about this, and wonder if it was just the wrong time for this, if they had done the actual story in 2016-19, as it was in the book, i think it would have been Stranger things/Game of Thrones level of popularity, which would have ensured it continued according to the book for future seasons through covid and all the nonsense that is going on atm..

or maybe if it had just waited a little while longer for this nonsense to pass, serious show runners who realised it's value , diversity and wokeness without needing to add or convert it to their own extreme views and narrow world view, would have also produced a better show.

It was unfortunate they did it in this time period.

[Xath]

In their defense I don't think the wheel of time could ever be made into a media that isn't a book or a audio book... maybe a play?

The issue is so much of the story the majority if in remembering correctly is inner dialogues and you can't translate that to television.

Animation is how you do it either anime style or Western. You need a good 20+ episodes per book and you have 10+ seasons so the actors would age too much if not just voices since wot takes place over only a few years. Can also do inner monologue in that style.

- - - Updated - - -

It's just a matter of perspective. As a series "based upon the books" Wheel of Time is absolutely OK, entertaining and rightfully renewed for season 3 this early. If you want "100% faithful translation of all source material" you're right.

It's not even close to the books major plot points are given to other characters or straight up dropped. The characterizations are appalling in short it's trash and that s3 renewal will likely be quietly dropped.

- - - Updated - - -

This and



This were absolutely included. Moraine's speech was included in its entirety. The insular nature of Two Rivers was shown repeatedly through minor dialogue with characters, and also with their general attitudes towards Moraine when she showed up.

Yeah the insular nature of Two Rivers was definitely shown by having every culture in the world there :P

[Tentim]

Animation is how you do it either anime style or Western. You need a good 20+ episodes per book and you have 10+ seasons so the actors would age too much if not just voices since wot takes place over only a few years. Can also do inner monologue in that style.

- - - Updated - - -



It's not even close to the books major plot points are given to other characters or straight up dropped. The characterizations are appalling in short it's trash and that s3 renewal will likely be quietly dropped.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah the insular nature of Two Rivers was definitely shown by having every culture in the world there :P

I think your just supposed to ignore actors these days and only see the character. It works somewhat though there are jarring examples where it falls apart.

[bledgor]

I think your just supposed to ignore actors these days and only see the character. It works somewhat though there are jarring examples where it falls apart.

Like how Rand and Aviendha are supposed to look like possibly being related? Certainly won't feel that way when you watch the show...

Why does Hollywood hate gingers so much?

[Biomega]

Why does Hollywood hate gingers so much?

Or more accurately: why do they think WE hate gingers so much?

Which at least in my case couldn't be further from the truth.

[bledgor]

Or more accurately: why do they think WE hate gingers so much?

Which at least in my case couldn't be further from the truth.

Considering so many gingers have been replaced or changed lately (Mary Jane, the little mermaid, Aviendha in just the past what 3 or 4 years I thought of in under a minute), 100% not me that has the issues with gingers, it is them. I feel the same way about gingers as anyone else. Don't defend them, they have trillions of dollars they can do it themselves.

[Biomega]

100% not me that has the issues with gingers, it is them.

My point is, they must be doing this for a reason, and not just some "we hate gingers" conspiracy. I.e., they most likely must be thinking that gingers in media cause problems with audiences in some way and for some reason.

[bledgor]

My point is, they must be doing this for a reason, and not just some "we hate gingers" conspiracy. I.e., they most likely must be thinking that gingers in media cause problems with audiences in some way and for some reason.

Or they view gingers as lowest on the totem pole and when they want to fill quotas they just replace them.

[Noxina]

Glad they got green light for season 3. Enjoyed S1 even how much they disregarded the books. It's fun with a new interpretation of the series, and I still have the original books to return to if I want to enjoy the series in its original form again.

Really curious about how they will go forth from the end of Season 1.



And the fact stands; its succesful, it got views, if not they wouldn't have green lighted season 3 BEFORE season 2 release. Fans are having the tits in a twist over the changes, but it does seem like the majority enjoys it. Which is great, and hopefully it will lead a lot of new fans to the books, so they can get to read/listen to the original works and be blown away and sucked into the fantasy genre as many of us has been.

[Mazza]

Glad they got green light for season 3. Enjoyed S1 even how much they disregarded the books. It's fun with a new interpretation of the series, and I still have the original books to return to if I want to enjoy the series in its original form again.

Really curious about how they will go forth from the end of Season 1.



And the fact stands; its succesful, it got views, if not they wouldn't have green lighted season 3 BEFORE season 2 release. Fans are having the tits in a twist over the changes, but it does seem like the majority enjoys it. Which is great, and hopefully it will lead a lot of new fans to the books, so they can get to read/listen to the original works and be blown away and sucked into the fantasy genre as many of us has been.

I said this before and I will say it again: Forgetting this is supposed to be WoT it is an ok'ish show at best, but that might be enough to get decent numbers. If I keep in mind this is supposed to be the main WoT storyline, I find this an abomination. And no, not because of any of the added diversity. Yes, that is not faithful to the books but that's just nitpicking at unimportant stuff when they are fucking butchering the world, the story and the main characters.

Hell, Rafe has basically admitted they are not doing the WoT story at all. One of the reasons he stated at the time was that they cast Rosamund Pike, then realised her character was absent for pretty long swats in the books. Oops we can't bench one of our big names that is supposed to be a draw to the show. It just shows that even Rafe himself doesn't trust the story he is trying to tell to be compelling enough for people to come back for more.

It gets even worse for some other changes, the reason stated for why they added the entire suicidal warder part was "Because we obviously had to"... No, you really did not.

[TirielWoW]

Yeah the insular nature of Two Rivers was definitely shown by having every culture in the world there :P

Ohhh. Gotcha.

It's another "brown people in my white fantasy" thing. Hokay.

[Xath]

Ohhh. Gotcha.

It's another "brown people in my white fantasy" thing. Hokay.

No? Have you actually read the books? Every culture in the world is represented but they are originally broken apart due to the whole breaking thing. Rand brings them together. The world is fractured for a narrative reason. One of the big things about the two rivers being insular is it has allowed the "old blood" to grow strong. There are ton of women who can channel there where it's extremely rare in the rest of the world. That's a bit less believable when literally every race on earth is represented in this tiny isolated village. Hokay.

My question is rhetorical because I know you haven't or you would know this.

[Shadowferal]

No? Have you actually read the books?
My question is rhetorical because I know you haven't or you would know this.

It was obvious when this was said;

Moraine's speech was included in its entirety.

I posted it right below that and nothing was said.

[Tentim]

Like how Rand and Aviendha are supposed to look like possibly being related? Certainly won't feel that way when you watch the show...

Why does Hollywood hate gingers so much?

The south park meme... no really. They cater to the lowest common denominator. It's why it's common in shows for characters to scream out their motivations now.

[Xath]

Like how Rand and Aviendha are supposed to look like possibly being related? Certainly won't feel that way when you watch the show...

Why does Hollywood hate gingers so much?

It is very weird how many redheads get replaced in both movies and TV compared to the source material.

- - - Updated - - -

The south park meme... no really. They cater to the lowest common denominator. It's why it's common in shows for characters to scream out their motivations now.

That makes me feel angry

[Nymrohd]

Ohhh. Gotcha.

It's another "brown people in my white fantasy" thing. Hokay.

I mean if you have read the books you'd know every race would be represented. The most successful civilization by far is mix race and led by a black woman. The predominantly black Sea Folk are shown to be far more stable and successful than any of the Mainland civilizations. The mainlands themselves would have complexions ranging from east asian to arabs and latinos. But yes, the white writer who wrote this more than three decades ago did start with a white village. Go a few books forward and you'd have a wide selection of races in your main cast. They could easily have Saldeans and thus Faile be arabs or Jewish and she'd be in half the episodes. Tuon comes later as a young black woman. No one has had any issue with the casting of Lan because I'd probably think of Malkieri as Japanese or Korean. You could make Min any race and it wouldn't matter because her race is not really focal to her character.

- - - Updated - - -

Like how Rand and Aviendha are supposed to look like possibly being related? Certainly won't feel that way when you watch the show...

Why does Hollywood hate gingers so much?

Maybe they don't have enough options (Really you'd have to search a lot to find all the extremely tall gingers from books 4 on. The book has hundreds of them in speaking parts). Also maybe it's a make up thing?

[Rennadrel]

Like how Rand and Aviendha are supposed to look like possibly being related? Certainly won't feel that way when you watch the show...

Why does Hollywood hate gingers so much?

Gingers truly are the most oppressed people.

[Nymrohd]

Gingers truly are the most oppressed people.

Left handed people.

[eschatological]

Left handed people.

We have the brains to make up for the shorter lifespan of living in a right-handed world.

[VMSmith]

I watched the first episode last night and found it mostly enjoyable if a bit non-explanatory in a way that left me wondering what was going on and where these monsters came from. I imagine the next episode will elaborate further. But I had to come to this thread to find out why people have hated this show so much because, based on just the first episode, it seemed fairly standard fantasy fare.

After looking at just the last couple of pages I think the main issue is the overdoing it attempt at diversity. As someone who's never read the books, it wasn't off-putting to me at all but I can absolutely see how people with pre-conceived ideas of what characters look like would be upset. If I had read the books first, I'd likely be annoyed at that as well. But, as a total newcomer, this was not a problem for me other than the fact that it was obvious that it was a Many Colors of Benetton thing going on and I instinctively knew the characters had likely been race-swapped.

But, reading through this thread, I see that the diversity also presents a problem for the story, itself, in the regard that this village was supposed to be very much isolated from the wider world and that the rest of the world is indeed populated by diverse types of humans. So, it seems like the diversity was done just for the sake of upfront showing how diverse the creators are, and will sacrifice an integral part of the story. I'll be interested to see how the show resolves that, whether they just handwave it away as "every village everywhere is incredibly diverse!" or "only the white villages in the book are now diverse, but the minority kingdoms remain as they were in the book". I'm hoping for the former, fearing it's likely the latter.

Still an enjoyable story, so far. I'll reserve judgment on how important the insistence on diversity affects the actual story as I watch more. But, so long as the story is good and does not trip up on modern racial politics too much I can see myself enjoying this quite well.