[TV] The Wheel of Time

[rhorle]

That might have something to do with Perrin not being considered old enough to marry at the start of the books. Another nonsensical change, purely so they could write some sex in early.

He was old enough as he is the same age as Rand. Egwene just got permission to braid her hair which meant the "courtship" between her and rand could officially take place now that she was deemed mature enough to marry. She was 17 though it can happen as early as 14. It all depends on when the circle deems the girls mature enough. Perrin is 19/20 at the start of the books.

It wasn't really a nonsensical change since Perrin himself even says he would likely have married/courted Laila if he stayed in the Two Rivers a few more years. It was also made to give him some character since you don't get much early on in the books and a lot of it is internal which doesn't work well for TV/Film. If you care you can read the "official" explanation at https://winteriscoming.net/2021/11/2...change-perrin/

- - - Updated - - -

They literally didn't include one of the most important characters to Perrin's early development.

He is in Season 2. https://winteriscoming.net/2022/02/2...time-season-2/

[Theangryone]

It remains to be seen if all of those people will hate-watch S2 or if the discussion actually dissuades non-fans from getting into it.

I'll probably see more youtube videos that comment about S2 then I will see any of actual S2. Even then, my expectations are so low that unless they said "Rape Judkins was fired and we fixed it", I can't see myself bothering with S2..... however commenting on how big a disappointment the show was after decades of being a WoT fan..... yea that part isn't going away anytime soon.

Nah I learned my lesson. They used the minutes watched from the first three episodes to get their name out there and solidify the second season. Going to pass on LoTR RoP also. After the Shanarra show no need to get bit a third time.

[Nymrohd]

That is heavily RJ's writing style. Its one of the reasons book fans are so critical of the show. RJ literally spelled out EVERY SCENE to the point where if you want to you can determine what everyone is wearing and what everything looks like to the nth degree. Some people get annoyed at that, but it is very much so his style.

The slowness of some of the books is made up for by the sheer horror and violence of parts of the story. It takes longer to get through the story, but it will make you care for the characters so much more than most other books. Without the descriptive nature of RJ, I think how the story unfolds for Rand would make it so hard to truly empathize with him.... instead you'll probably cry on the mountain with him.

I did

For instance Rand's madness is very well written. It's why I never understood how they could make the show unless they found a superb actor; so much of the story happens inside his head. E.g. those chapters where he has convinced himself he raped Min seem impossible for me to bring to the screen.

[Rennadrel]

to be fair, the problem with Watchmen was not the faithful shot by shot recreation, I don't remember people hating that, I believe it was actualy praised for it, but rather the changes Snyder made that were very key and unfortunately showed how little he understood the story or the characters. the worst off being Ozymandias but pretty much all characters suffered in some way with the only 2 being the most faithful to the books being Rorschach and Comedian.

and again, to be fair, some of the issues with WoT especially in later episodes and most glaringly in a finale was due to covid interrupting filming and couple of other issues resulting in last minute rewrites that were NOT set up in prior episodes so they are very jarring. but... not everything can be contributed to it. and while yes, of course writing is hard and that's why I personaly am very willing to suspend my disbelief and not nitpick minor things... there were choices that I personaly was not the biggest fan of. like for example giving Perrin a wife only to fridge her in the same episode in a very crappy way. in case you are wondering, while the character did exist in the books, she was a lot more minor, never married Perrin and didn't die in that Trolloc raid.

The fact that they replaced Rand's scenes at the Eye of the World fighting and killing off two of the fricking Forsaken with a girl power moment is one of the biggest fuck ups in TV history and is completely inexcusable. Especially considering both Nynaeve and Egwene can't even so much as channel at that point in the series. It completely breaks their character development, especially Nynaeve's struggles with getting around her block which I feel are a huge part of what makes her story interesting later on.

[Nymrohd]

The fact that they replaced Rand's scenes at the Eye of the World fighting and killing off two of the fricking Forsaken with a girl power moment is one of the biggest fuck ups in TV history and is completely inexcusable. Especially considering both Nynaeve and Egwene can't even so much as channel at that point in the series. It completely breaks their character development, especially Nynaeve's struggles with getting around her block which I feel are a huge part of what makes her story interesting later on.

Rand did not really kill either forsaken. Someshta (the Green Man) is the one who kills Balthamel. Aginor just lost the power struggle to control the Eye and burst from too much power (which makes little sense by later standards; Aginor was supposed to be the second strongest in raw output among the male Forsaken, on a level with Demandred. If untrained Rand could control it, he should as well but hey, Ta'veren).
The girls do nothing. They get every chance to show girl power in the next few books though, especially Nynaeve).

[Mazza]

He is in Season 2. https://winteriscoming.net/2022/02/2...time-season-2/

Nice for people that will watch that. It also means fuck all to the disservice they did to the Perrin's character in season 1.

[Xath]

He was old enough as he is the same age as Rand. Egwene just got permission to braid her hair which meant the "courtship" between her and rand could officially take place now that she was deemed mature enough to marry. She was 17 though it can happen as early as 14. It all depends on when the circle deems the girls mature enough. Perrin is 19/20 at the start of the books.

It wasn't really a nonsensical change since Perrin himself even says he would likely have married/courted Laila if he stayed in the Two Rivers a few more years. It was also made to give him some character since you don't get much early on in the books and a lot of it is internal which doesn't work well for TV/Film. If you care you can read the "official" explanation at https://winteriscoming.net/2021/11/2...change-perrin/

- - - Updated - - -



He is in Season 2. https://winteriscoming.net/2022/02/2...time-season-2/

It was an incredibly idiotic and nonsensical change. Part of the growing done by the boys throughout the books involves dealing with various attempts to lead them in that manner. Rand sure as hell wasn't fucking egwene the attempts to got the series are vomit inducing and would be enough on their own to make it crap yet they are arguably thebleadt objectionable changes in rafe of time which says how fucking trash it is.

- - - Updated - - -

For instance Rand's madness is very well written. It's why I never understood how they could make the show unless they found a superb actor; so much of the story happens inside his head. E.g. those chapters where he has convinced himself he raped Min seem impossible for me to bring to the screen.

You seem to think that Rand will actually be the focus point of this show. They've made it clear that Moiraine and the girls will be the focus. This isn't wheel of time it's rafe of time.

[Flurryfang]

The fact that they replaced Rand's scenes at the Eye of the World fighting and killing off two of the fricking Forsaken with a girl power moment is one of the biggest fuck ups in TV history and is completely inexcusable. Especially considering both Nynaeve and Egwene can't even so much as channel at that point in the series. It completely breaks their character development, especially Nynaeve's struggles with getting around her block which I feel are a huge part of what makes her story interesting later on.

The point, that most of the big character development points in the first book have been ignored or completly removed, makes the major reason why i have a hard time liking this show.

Cause it seems like most of season 1 are so focused on the world and the main plot, that they have forgotten to develop their characters at all. Nobody learns anything or has any problems, that they fight against. Its all about big moments and thats it. It makes the entire story(and show) feel very shallow and rushed.

I dread season 2 so much, cause i while i would love to see WoT done well as a show and want to give it is fair chance, it is just so clear that no matter how long they are given, the producers wants a very different show/story out of WoT and might aswell have it be a new story.


It is in these situations, where i think back to the early days of development on the Lord of the Rings movies. Peter Jackson went around to different studios with the idea and tried to sell the entire story on a 2-movie structure. This did not work and at some point, they were ready to do it 1, but luckily New Line Cinema said that if Lord of the Rings was to be made, it had to be 3 movies.
I think no matter how hard Peter Jackson and his team worked, it would have been hard to make Lord of the Rings good on 1-2 movies.

Its the same thing here with WoT. It is quite clear, that they are not ready to put 8-9 seasons into the story and follow the book structure, so they are gonna push the story ahead at break-neak pace, so that they might be able to put an ending on the story after 3-5 seasons. Its a brave thought, but it will just always lack something and have a missing link.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh its so much worse than that.... S2 is supposed to cover nearly all of books 2 and 3. The great hunt will be 4-5 episodes. Just imagine.


As for the first season. I think if they had 10 episodes (and an ounce of respect for the story) someone else could have done it well. Rafe cannot do it, but someone with talent could have.

Here is a episode summary I literally just made thinking of how you could easily split the book up, have important episodes where each one ends in a cliffhanger or action "event". This is so blatantly easy that their inability to do this is astounding.

1- Should have given us a 10 minute prologue where we meet LT and Ish. Then the rest of the episode should have been Winternight. Use episode 1 to introduce us to all the characters, actually make us LIKE Emond's Field and the people in it instead of making it a craphole full of awful people. End on the farm, right as the door gets broken in by trollocs.

2- Rand's travel through the woods all the way to crossing the Taren. Give time for Moraine's speech and actually feel the real leavetakings of the kids (should have really been 16-18 year old actors who could grow into these parts) as they are forced to leave their home. Finish on Moraine sinking the ferry.

3- 10 minutes of traveling and Lan/Moraine teaching. The rest Baerlon. Cliffhanger on them leaving and the Whitecloaks confronting them.

4- Shadar Logoth and the battle prior to it. Finish on the boys and Thom getting onto the ship and Perrin and his horse going into the water.

5- Elyas, wolves, Bayle. Give time for the scenes with Nynaeve and Lan to breath (let us actually start liking them). Let us see the other kids connecting with parts of the world that open it up. End with Fade in Whitebridge and meeting the tinkers for Perrin and Egwene.

6- Let Rand/Mat travel, less made up barmaid Darkfriend and more tenseness between them because of Mat's dagger. Tinkers into ravens for Perrin. End with Rand calling lightning to escape Gode and Whitecloaks spotting Perrin/Egwene under that rock.

7- Rand/Mat get to Caemlyn, meet Loial, Rand goes to see Logan being brought in. Perrin/Egwene deal with Whitecloaks. End of episode Rand falls over wall and Perrin/Egwene rescued.

8- Rand's adventures with the royals that tells us alot about him. Moraine and company get to Caemlyn. Travel the ways. End with escaping Machin Shin and arriving in Shienar.

9- Fal Dara and the journey into the Blight. Let this episode explain more about Lan and his past. Spend time at Malchier and really make us care about Lan/Nynaeve and not make him into someone that would sleep with her and still brush her off. Have the rush through the Blight and end with them meeting the Green Man.

10- Green Man brings them to the Eye, explains more about the world to help with world building. Then have the fight with the Forsaken, the battle at Tarwin's Gap, and RAND actually throwing the power against the trollocs. End with them all riding back through fresh growth of spring to Fal Dara.




Also, I really wish they would not have tried to base the show around Moraine. I get the concept of getting a known actor to try to entice people to watch the show, but they failed pretty hard in that because

A) Moraine isn't in alot of the story, which means they need to force massive changes and cut characters who matter more (Verin) just to use the actress they paid for
B) It detracts from our ability to see the story as the EF5's story, which it IS, because we have to see it from the "big name actress" 's POV.
C) She isn't that well known, or that good of an actor, so I doubt anyone bothered to tune in (or stay tuned in) due to her.

The story should have focused on the Emond's Fielders.

If they did this, while weaving in that the one power is really mysterious and invisible, Ishamael being crazy and that being the dragon is not a good thing, and then you have a good scene for a good show.

- - - Updated - - -

I have to say for so many people who seem to think the show is trash, its generating quite the amount of discussion. I have a feeling the producers would be happy people are still talking about it months after release.

You could say the same about game of thrones, so not sure if it is a good indicator

I think the discussion happens right now, because the fans of the book are still not quite sure if the show should be given a chance with season 2. It is always hard to decide on a show after a single season, but the gut feeling still persist.

I would though not be surprised, that if the 2nd season just keeps going the same route as the first, that the discussion will die down quite a bit, because at that point, there is not really much to say.

[Mazza]

I think the discussion happens right now, because the fans of the book are still not quite sure if the show should be given a chance with season 2. It is always hard to decide on a show after a single season, but the gut feeling still persist.

I would though not be surprised, that if the 2nd season just keeps going the same route as the first, that the discussion will die down quite a bit, because at that point, there is not really much to say.

Personally, I think the viewing numbers for season 2 will be a fraction of what season 1 was. I know I am not giving it a watch after season 1 and I really don't think I am alone in that.

[Witchblade77]

I'm going to at least start watching season 2. whether I will finish it, will depend on how the first 2-3 episodes are, but I will still give it a chance. personaly.

[Xath]

That is heavily RJ's writing style. Its one of the reasons book fans are so critical of the show. RJ literally spelled out EVERY SCENE to the point where if you want to you can determine what everyone is wearing and what everything looks like to the nth degree. Some people get annoyed at that, but it is very much so his style.

The slowness of some of the books is made up for by the sheer horror and violence of parts of the story. It takes longer to get through the story, but it will make you care for the characters so much more than most other books. Without the descriptive nature of RJ, I think how the story unfolds for Rand would make it so hard to truly empathize with him.... instead you'll probably cry on the mountain with him.

I did

Yup half the books is basically stage and costume and description but they still somehow fucked up basically everything

[Nymrohd]

All this discussion is doing is make me want to read through the books again (and I don't have that kind of time!) Definitely does not make want to see the series.

[Redwyrm]

All this discussion is doing is make me want to read through the books again (and I don't have that kind of time!) Definitely does not make want to see the series.

audiobooks

[Gumble]

All this discussion is doing is make me want to read through the books again (and I don't have that kind of time!) Definitely does not make want to see the series.

Halfway through the Great Hunt right now.

The only thing I want to see in S2 is how badly they screw up the casting for Lanfear/Selene. There is no way they have a pale, raven-haired beautiful young woman who would make your mouth run dry and turn every eye in any room. Especially with the way she treats Rand.... Not that I'll watch S2, but I'm sure I'll hear about it from one youtube video or another.




LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL I just looked it up, they got a 35 year busted looking woman cast as Lanfear..... I can't even....

[Flamewibble]

audiobooks

I listened to the part of the series on audiobook while on a long road trip and then playing games. I still prefer reading with my eyes, but freeing up your eyes, hands, and 10% of your brain gives you just enough flexibility to play a Hunter or maybe a Warlock while reading. Pretty sweet!

[Xath]

All this discussion is doing is make me want to read through the books again (and I don't have that kind of time!) Definitely does not make want to see the series.

audiobooks while working

[rhorle]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL I just looked it up, they got a 35 year busted looking woman cast as Lanfear..... I can't even....

Now you are just being hateful for the sake of it. If you don't like the show that is fine but there is no reason to be insulting a persons appearance just because you are looking for things to hate. Just move on from the show and surround yourself with something you actually enjoy.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL I just looked it up, they got a 35 year busted looking woman cast as Lanfear..... I can't even....

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nHsyrnokC7M/maxresdefault.jpg

Man some of y'all are truly rancid ain't ya.

[Witchblade77]

audiobooks

as someone who has been going through the books in this exact way.... it is still a lot of time. and like you have to actualy focus to listen to these books, even though they seem so meandering at times, such leisurely pace at the same time, all of those sentences still convey important information so I found that I can only listen to them when I'm doing something generally mindless. its been..... very long going..... (and yes I'm listening to original recording and for the life of me I cannot understand what was even the point of having female and male narrator when you are just going to have them read different chapters and not split the character voices between them instead)

edited to add.. I'm trying so very hard to see what the fuck is wrong with Natasha o'keefe and nope, not seeing it, I think she is gorgeous (kinda reminds me a bit of Carry Ann Moss), but you know... anything for the hatred right?

it feels like Yennefer dejavu all over again.

[Gumble]

Man some of y'all are truly rancid ain't ya.

The word you're looking for was "Honest"

I know that is a word that is tough for you all, but facts > feelings