[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Ragedaug]

Right. The show did remove it so it is silly to rehash it. Some of the people here will still be complaining about diversity with Season 3.

The show is rehashing the bad decision, season after season, so people are going to rehash the complaint about why they don't like it. It doesn't mean they are "raging". I'm not "raging". I just don't care for the show. Forced diversity is one of the reasons, but for me a minor complaint.

If the only issue was the forced diversity, I would still watch the show, but the writing is pretty horrible, and the plot is a mess with how they are trying to follow the book while flippantly changing whatever they feel like, so plot holes and contradictions abound. So that's what makes it unenjoyable for me.

But yeah, the diversity breaks immersion for me. If you look at our own Earth a few hundred years back, there was little to no diversity in any small isolated area on the planet. The books had tons of diversity, but like our world, the differences were associated to geographical regions. With only horse travel and walking, isolated people aren't going to have diverse representation from every continent. So as I noted, it breaks immersion when the show can't explain why an isolated village, that's been isolated for centuries, is completely diverse. Would have been like see Wakanda with a bunch of Europeans and Asians. Or seeing Ip Man with a bunch of Europeans and Africans. I would have had the same complaint, because it would not have made sense.

[Delekii]

It's an absolutely terrible adaptation of the Wheel of Time books, that doesn't make it a bad show and obviously doesn't prevent it from being a hit, but it's butchering the source material.

Many adaptions do. Get over it. Furthermore, there are plenty, PLENTY of people in this very thread that think that it changing the source material absolutely does make it a bad show and not popular, despite the obvious evidence to the contrary!

[Corvus]

The show is rehashing the bad decision, season after season, so people are going to rehash the complaint about why they don't like it. It doesn't mean they are "raging". I'm not "raging". I just don't care for the show. Forced diversity is one of the reasons, but for me a minor complaint.

If the only issue was the forced diversity, I would still watch the show, but the writing is pretty horrible, and the plot is a mess with how they are trying to follow the book while flippantly changing whatever they feel like, so plot holes and contradictions abound. So that's what makes it unenjoyable for me.

But yeah, the diversity breaks immersion for me. If you look at our own Earth a few hundred years back, there was little to no diversity in any small isolated area on the planet. The books had tons of diversity, but like our world, the differences were associated to geographical regions. With only horse travel and walking, isolated people aren't going to have diverse representation from every continent. So as I noted, it breaks immersion when the show can't explain why an isolated village, that's been isolated for centuries, is completely diverse. Would have been like see Wakanda with a bunch of Europeans and Asians. Or seeing Ip Man with a bunch of Europeans and Africans. I would have had the same complaint, because it would not have made sense.

Yeah, it kind of was a large part of the series - prior to the events of the book, the setting was very diverse but everyone largely kept to their own. Especially the Aiel. The Two Rivers had all but dropped off the map and had pretty much no idea they were part of Andor, and even the tax collectors of Andor had forgotten them.

About the only really multicultural parts of the world were the White Tower and the Whitecloaks, and neither of them were exactly the best examples for it.

The events of the book and Rand and Co. travelling around broke those restraints and showed that maybe working together and stopping being insular was the best way to go. And, surprise, it was.

[Ragedaug]

The events of the book and Rand and Co. travelling around broke those restraints and showed that maybe working together and stopping being insular was the best way to go. And, surprise, it was.

And to be honest, that would be an example of good story telling. Start with a weakness and show growth. You see a lot of examples of how story tellers are failing at this in modern story telling. Protagonists start off with no character flaws, barely run into any challenges or to say, easily overcome any challenges, and due to that, there's no character growth. No character arc. And that makes for boring characters and a boring story.

[rhorle]

The show is rehashing the bad decision, season after season, so people are going to rehash the complaint about why they don't like it. It doesn't mean they are "raging". I'm not "raging". I just don't care for the show. Forced diversity is one of the reasons, but for me a minor complaint.

So you expect a show to just change after the fact? This is all raging over diversity and not letting it go. It happened. It was changed. Move on.

[bledgor]

I mean anyone expecting this show to get any better while the hack idiot named Rafe is in charge is naive at best. That clown has zero talent, but believes himself to be some genius while he meanwhile fucks up the story/world of one of the greatest modern fantasy settings. Sadly this has become typical of modern movies/shows/hollywood, as so many yes men/women fluff their ego's till they believe in their own "talent".

[Ragedaug]

So you expect a show to just change after the fact? This is all raging over diversity and not letting it go. It happened. It was changed. Move on.

I mean, not really. I have no expectations that they would change. The types of people that would make this level mistake aren't listening to good advice in the first place, so I don't expect them to learn from their mistakes, meaning they are going to keep repeating them. I have very low expectations of the show runners for the WoT series.

[rhorle]

I mean, not really. I have no expectations that they would change

Then why rehash it? If you know they won't change then what is the point in ranting about it yet again? Also don't try to rationalize it with "these types" when we all know that a show already in production won't be removing diversity and recasting majority of their cast.

[Ragedaug]

Then why rehash it? If you know they won't change then what is the point in ranting about it yet again? Also don't try to rationalize it with "these types" when we all know that a show already in production won't be removing diversity and recasting majority of their cast.

My apologies if you thought I was ranting. That was not my intention to give that impression. I was merely expressing an opinion.

I notice you label most of the disagreement with you as "rage". I understand it's not my place to suggest this, but if you don't mind...something you may want to try is reading comments from everyone, including folks who disagree with you, in a calm polite tone. That may positively impact your perception of the post, which may foster better back-and-forth communications.

[rhorle]

My apologies if you thought I was ranting. That was not my intention to give that impression. I was merely expressing an opinion.

What back and forth discussion should be fostered here? It is silly. It is a known change, it happened, move on. There is nothing to be gained by people continuing to complain about it existing in the show. You don't expect it to change but still want to complain about it existing. The show premiered in 2021 and the diversity of its cast was known earlier.

But hey I'm totally the bad one because I'm labeling you in a way you don't like for talking about topics you should have long ago got over.

[Xath]

I don't know why you act surprised when it has already been established that the show is more diverse then the books. There really is no reason to rehash diversity-based arguments.

The Books were actually more diverse significantly more so. There were actual defined cultures that slowly mixed together into a whole rather than every small town looking like New York. There are no defined cultures in rafe of time.

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They have already changed them to a gag and gorget. There is no reason to start inventing an argument about people you don't like just so you have something to rage about. Just move on from the show instead of going out of your way to get angry.

Yeah gagging and leasing a young black women is definitely way better and certainly won't lead to massive rage. Why don't you try actually reading the source material for once before defending absolute crap lol

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Many adaptions do. Get over it. Furthermore, there are plenty, PLENTY of people in this very thread that think that it changing the source material absolutely does make it a bad show and not popular, despite the obvious evidence to the contrary!

I haven't seen a single person in this thread who has shown any knowledge of the books still defending this mess after the hilarity that was the final episode.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The Books were actually more diverse significantly more so. There were actual defined cultures that slowly mixed together into a whole rather than every small town looking like New York. There are no defined cultures in rafe of time.

You don’t need to stick to physical characteristics to show a defined culture.

The show makes it pretty obvious with clothing if nothing else.

[rhorle]

Yeah gagging and leasing a young black women is definitely way better and certainly won't lead to massive rage. Why don't you try actually reading the source material for once before defending absolute crap lol

You would find an excuse for anything different from source is bad. You are still upset one and half years after the series preimere that it isn't a 1:1 or faithful adaptation. Let it go and move on. Why keep surrounding yourself with things you hate? It is even crazy that you still use "you haven't read the books" as an insult. I have read them but it is easier for you to continue to live in the fantasy you've built out of your hatred.

[Ragedaug]

What back and forth discussion should be fostered here?

I dunno. Seems like that's the entire point of fan forums. You say something, then I say something back. Then you respond to that, etc.

I'm not suggesting you'll care to respond to everything that's posted. Some of it (maybe most) will be inane, and nearly all of it will be more pertinent to someone other than ourselves, but I think it's important for us to disregard and move past that which doesn't seem intended for us and lets others address those points, if anyone cares to at all.

Some things are a big deal to some, they'll say as much. Instead of telling them that's it's not a big deal for you so they shouldn't post it, you can either ignore it, or simply post you have the opposite reaction and explain why.

Just seems bad form to tell people what they shouldn't post on a forum, since most of it can easily for be someone who is not you or me.

But hey I'm totally the bad one because I'm labeling you in a way you don't like for talking about topics you should have long ago got over.

I didn't say I didn't like it. It didn't bother me, it's just a mischaracterization and I even apologized and took ownership of the misunderstanding. I'm not sure why you are being as hostile towards me as it feels you are. And if I'm misunderstanding your intentions, I would again apologize. But yeah, it feels like you are being hostile towards me. /shrug.

[rhorle]

I dunno. Seems like that's the entire point of fan forums. You say something, then I say something back. Then you respond to that, etc.

So it was a lie when you said discussion should be fostered. The only thing you are interested in is post counts. We also know it is a lie because that is what was happening and you took issue with me "saying something back". It is always amusing when people logic themselves into a trap that is fine when they do it but bad when someone else does it.

What value is there in discussing diversity yet again? It happened. Even yourself labeled it a minor issue. If it isn't to rant about it existing in the series what is the purpose of posting about how bad it is?

[Ragedaug]

So it was a lie when you said discussion should be fostered. The only thing you are interested in is post counts. We also know it is a lie because that is what was happening and you took issue with me "saying something back". It is always amusing when people logic themselves into a trap that is fine when they do it but bad when someone else does it.

What value is there in discussing diversity yet again? It happened. Even yourself labeled it a minor issue. If it isn't to rant about it existing in the series what is the purpose of posting about how bad it is?

Now it just feels like you are trolling me. I don't agree with you about this TV show, but that doesn't mean we have to be enemies. Just means we are our own people and can have our own thoughts without the person we disagree with being a bad person.

[rhorle]

Now it just feels like you are trolling me. I don't agree with you about this TV show, but that doesn't mean we have to be enemies. Just means we are our own people and can have our own thoughts without the person we disagree with being a bad person.

So we can have our own thoughts without the person we disagree with being a bad person yet you imply I'm trolling you. You don't find it strange how you want to get along yet at the very same time sow discord with labels and stuff? It really seems like you got triggered over being told you are ranting about diversity and your responses are just hollow theater to justify to yourself why it is fine to complain about diversity.

Again, what valuable discussion can arise from "discussing" a series still being diverse for the second season? Is there value in saying the cast should be replaced because of a minor issue? It is a change that happened. It is done and over with. There are so many better things to discuss about the show but you've made it a point to that you should be able to endlessly complain about diversity existing in the show.

[rhorle]

This is how it goes with that poster. My recommendation is add him to your ignore list - just look at his post history.

It is amusing how you, and others, can't stop talking about me even after you ignore me. Just move on and let it go.

[Ragedaug]

So we can have our own thoughts without the person we disagree with being a bad person yet you imply I'm trolling you. You don't find it strange how you want to get along yet at the very same time sow discord with labels and stuff? It really seems like you got triggered over being told you are ranting about diversity and your responses are just hollow theater to justify to yourself why it is fine to complain about diversity.

Again, what valuable discussion can arise from "discussing" a series still being diverse for the second season? Is there value in saying the cast should be replaced because of a minor issue? It is a change that happened. It is done and over with. There are so many better things to discuss about the show but you've made it a point to that you should be able to endlessly complain about diversity existing in the show.

You say you aren't trolling me, but call me a liar who rants and rages. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take you seriously or engage in any type of honest dialog.

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This is how it goes with that poster. My recommendation is add him to your ignore list - just look at his post history.

I appreciate that advice. Tough to have a civil discussion with someone who's just out to attack.

[rhorle]

You say you aren't trolling me, but call me a liar who rants and rages. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take you seriously or engage in any type of honest dialog.

Because you are ranting about something. You call diversity a minor issue but say it should be brought up every time the series makes use of it. You refuse to answer what valuable discussion can come from yet again rehashing it's existence. You haven't even proposed a solution. You are complaining about it just to complain.

Are you saying you haven't been engaging in honest dialog up to this point? As in you were trolling this entire time? Isn't it strange how it is never you that could be bad in the discussion but always someone else? Lol.