[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Grimbold21]

Cant see how a few barechested men changes the story though ?

It was more in reference to the general progressive tone of the show, and it's intention to galvanize those undertones even more because.....reasons?

[Kreuger]

It was more in reference to the general progressive tone of the show, and it's intention to galvanize those undertones even more because.....reasons?

If they go with a very progressive tone that changes the books telling of the story im aboard your concerns. But cant say anything regarding that untill the show is out.

Doesnt seem like they are going that way from articles/clips.

[Grimbold21]

That's because all this side is interested is in tit for tat, not true progression, just reversal. It was never true racism free, just race reversal, gender reversal not equality or progressing past objectification - male or female. And media is sexualised enough, it would have been nice to have a great show where that wasn't a focus at all.

True enough. For anyone paying enough - or maybe too much - attention to this stuff, they'll know that for some progressives, it was never about equality, rather tipping the scales in the opposite direction.

But as we know as well, they get away with because A) the groups favourably mediatised are those from historically oppressed groups and B) the overwhelmingy majority of the audience is completely oblivious to these heated discussions.

[Shadowferal]

I know it's not on LOTR levels, but is there even any nudity or explicit sexual descriptions in the WoT books? All that comes to mind right now is a vague recolection of Perrin describing his gf/wife's fierce nature in bed.

Nope.
Nothing explicit at all. I suspect Jordan's wife may have disapproved since she helped edit the books.
We do get a lot of naked people when events turn towards the Aiel and the Seanchan. But nothing suggestive of anything sexual with implications that all was simply normal. Which it would be fir those societies.

[Koriani]

If the article actually says what he claims, would like to read it. Havent come across anything on this topic on WOTs subreddit and they usually have most if not all news in there

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Must have been this article mentioned earlier, managed to find it on reddit:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...heel-Time.html

"Rosamund Pike has revealed that her new feminist fantasy series The Wheel of Time will show 'more naked men than women'.

The actress, 42, said it was 'quite pleasing' to readdress the nudity imbalance 'since women have been asked to expose themselves forever and a day.'"

"She told The Radio Times: 'You see many more naked men than you see naked women, which is quite pleasing, since women have been asked to expose themselves forever and a day.

'We've got all the boys frantically dieting and working out hard for their naked scenes and all of the women going out for lovely dinners.'"



If theres nothing more then this, doesnt really rile me up much.

Yup - that's the article! (or one of them - when I went looking I found the same article by the one writer - up all over).

And it doesn't 'rile' me up either. As I said, even the 'mentioning the dragon could be female' doesn't really 'rile' me up as I'm willing to see if its a one-off comment or not.

It just ...a weird comment to make. That about anything you could be talking about with your show - here's what you throw out. And I'm certainly not saying she may have had 10 minutes of comments and this is the one the writer decided to pull out (we don't know - this is all that's ever mentioned). Its just... and odd thing to focus on with a show like this. An odd thing to bring up, at all.

I'd think the same thing if she had said 'more hats' instead of nudity.

"Of all the things to focus on - to talk about with your new show - to bring in viewers - and this is important enough to you (Pike) to mention above those other things? - Why?"

Obviously, 'worst case scenario' for the show - If the director is focusing on aspects of the series (or making them up) that aren't relevant to the fans of the series, we'll get a crap adaptation. I just find these 'one off comments' to be more telling about someone than the more purposeful/scripted interviews (and more telling than a three minute trailer only showing snippets of conversations).

But whether it really matters at the end of the day - we won't know until we watch! =D Just 'things that make me go hmmm...' (or more Whhaa?)

But riled? Nah... adaptations of books don't matter to me enough to get me ...well... any type of negative emotion other than 'disappointed' =D.

[Sorshen]

This is shaping up to be as bad as Frank Miller's Cursed adaptation.

[Tyris Flare]

If the article actually says what he claims, would like to read it. Havent come across anything on this topic on WOTs subreddit and they usually have most if not all news in there

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Must have been this article mentioned earlier, managed to find it on reddit:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...heel-Time.html

"Rosamund Pike has revealed that her new feminist fantasy series The Wheel of Time will show 'more naked men than women'.

The actress, 42, said it was 'quite pleasing' to readdress the nudity imbalance 'since women have been asked to expose themselves forever and a day.'"

"She told The Radio Times: 'You see many more naked men than you see naked women, which is quite pleasing, since women have been asked to expose themselves forever and a day.

'We've got all the boys frantically dieting and working out hard for their naked scenes and all of the women going out for lovely dinners.'"



If theres nothing more then this, doesnt really rile me up much.

I love the idea that men don't go through insane workout routines for movies lmao

[Corvus]

Another teaser dropped today aswell

https://twitter.com/thewheeloftime/s...778206208?s=21

The entire focus of marketing seems to have been around the females. Twitterati is not going to be happy when they find out who the Dragon and the main characters are.

[Mace]

Yup - that's the article! (or one of them - when I went looking I found the same article by the one writer - up all over).

And it doesn't 'rile' me up either. As I said, even the 'mentioning the dragon could be female' doesn't really 'rile' me up as I'm willing to see if its a one-off comment or not.

It just ...a weird comment to make. That about anything you could be talking about with your show - here's what you throw out. And I'm certainly not saying she may have had 10 minutes of comments and this is the one the writer decided to pull out (we don't know - this is all that's ever mentioned). Its just... and odd thing to focus on with a show like this. An odd thing to bring up, at all.

I'd think the same thing if she had said 'more hats' instead of nudity.

"Of all the things to focus on - to talk about with your new show - to bring in viewers - and this is important enough to you (Pike) to mention above those other things? - Why?"

Obviously, 'worst case scenario' for the show - If the director is focusing on aspects of the series (or making them up) that aren't relevant to the fans of the series, we'll get a crap adaptation. I just find these 'one off comments' to be more telling about someone than the more purposeful/scripted interviews (and more telling than a three minute trailer only showing snippets of conversations).

But whether it really matters at the end of the day - we won't know until we watch! =D Just 'things that make me go hmmm...' (or more Whhaa?)

But riled? Nah... adaptations of books don't matter to me enough to get me ...well... any type of negative emotion other than 'disappointed' =D.

In all fairness, that could just be the dailymail highlighting that, because it is divisive and a or raunchy - and it gets the more clicks. Who knows what else she said that they didn't bother to print, it is also likely they framed the question too to get such a response.

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True enough. For anyone paying enough - or maybe too much - attention to this stuff, they'll know that for some progressives, it was never about equality, rather tipping the scales in the opposite direction.

But as we know as well, they get away with because A) the groups favourably mediatised are those from historically oppressed groups and B) the overwhelmingy majority of the audience is completely oblivious to these heated discussions.

That's the thing isn't it, the majority of the audience is oblivious to what is going and why. But the the screechers have always had a louder bark than bite.

I have a sneaky suspicion that some of these over the top changes are going to cost them millions. The sad thing is because it's so hard to actually measure these things, as long as you are fairly successful, the clever producers can spin a story and lay the blame at other things like "toxic fandom" - which is just b/s. Sadly investors and board members just lap it up, because they're not clued in at all to what is really going on, and main stream media currently backs up the crazies even when they are being ridiculous.

All it will take is one brave studio, to actually do things right and well, and watch how their numbers out strip everyone else's. Then investors will start thinking a litle beyond the lies they're being force fed by their managers and producers just wanting to keep their jobs.

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I love the idea that men don't go through insane workout routines for movies lmao

Haha, indeed, we just don't moan and bitch about it and how unfair it is, nor do we constantly compare ourselves to what the other side does and how they don't have to sweat half as much to be screen ready.

[Xath]

The entire focus of marketing seems to have been around the females. Twitterati is not going to be happy when they find out who the Dragon and the main characters are.

Big assumption that they will still be the same at this point.

[Mace]

Big assumption that they will still be the same at this point.

I’m a surprising twist of events (to no one) Egwene turns out to actually be the Dragon Reborn, because we are just not woke enough here.

[Rennadrel]

This is shaping up to be as bad as Frank Miller's Cursed adaptation.

It's gonna be a battle between this, Cowboy Bebop and One Piece for biggest pile of trash adaptation ever.

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I’m a surprising twist of events (to no one) Egwene turns out to actually be the Dragon Reborn, because we are just not woke enough here.

Oh I'd love to see that because I know the fanbase would come out of the woodwork to rail on Rafe and Rosamund in spades. WoT fans have been itching for a series or films since before I ever read the books, they'll be livid if they try and ruin Robert Jordan's work. I don't think Brandon Sanderson or Harriet McDougal would escape criticism either because they've green lit everything that's been done.

[Grimbold21]

Like I said, these hypocritical nutbags ultimately win, because the the vast majority of a tv audience is oblivious to both these debates AND the source material. If the show is successful, they get to claim their insipid narrative is appreciated. If it's not, they pull now the tiresome "it's the audience's fault"

[Xath]

Like I said, these hypocritical nutbags ultimately win, because the the vast majority of a tv audience is oblivious to both these debates AND the source material. If the show is successful, they get to claim their insipid narrative is appreciated. If it's not, they pull now the tiresome "it's the audience's fault"

Don't forget they yell about sexism.

[Biomega]

Don't forget they yell about sexism.

Which is doubly stupid for something like WoT that already has SIGNIFICANT female representation in the original material - heck one could well argue that the story is, in fact, all about women. The Dragon Reborn is the broken playball of destiny more than anything. He spends half of one novel locked in a box feeling sorry for himself! Meanwhile we have the Aes Sedai, the Seanchan, and even the forces of the Dark One ruled or even run entirely by women. If there was ever a fantasy setting that didn't need help in how it portrays strong female characters, it's this one.

But noooo it's not enough to just have good material, you also need to dial up the virtue signaling to 11. Because gods forbid something has actual good writing, unless it's got an agenda ham-fisted and slammed in there with loud noise and capital letters ten foot high someone might miss the point. Apparently all audiences are idiots and won't understand anything you don't spell out by engraving it onto their eyeballs.

[Kreuger]

Interview with Rafe

https://gizmodo.com/adapting-the-whe...-ow-1848026456

1 of the quastions with answers:

io9: Speaking of, the show’s seemingly biggest change from the books is the revelation that a female character could be a potential Dragon Reborn, whereas in the books the Dragon is exclusively male.

Judkins: I think the idea that the Dragon Reborn doesn’t necessarily need to only be a male character, that’s really important. We see that play out in a number of different ways through the season. Also, as we learn, some of the Dragons of the past were women. How was that different? How did that affect the world? So that one change that we’ve made, it really does flutter through the whole series. I think it’s good to make changes like that and to put them in the show, even if it does have those effects.



Really should read the full interview, he gets asked and answers alot of the questions in this thread(perhaps not allways to satisfaction)

[Xath]

Interview with Rafe

https://gizmodo.com/adapting-the-whe...-ow-1848026456

1 of the quastions with answers:

io9: Speaking of, the show’s seemingly biggest change from the books is the revelation that a female character could be a potential Dragon Reborn, whereas in the books the Dragon is exclusively male.

Judkins: I think the idea that the Dragon Reborn doesn’t necessarily need to only be a male character, that’s really important. We see that play out in a number of different ways through the season. Also, as we learn, some of the Dragons of the past were women. How was that different? How did that affect the world? So that one change that we’ve made, it really does flutter through the whole series. I think it’s good to make changes like that and to put them in the show, even if it does have those effects.



Really should read the full interview, he gets asked and answers alot of the questions in this thread(perhaps not allways to satisfaction)

he's a complete idiot glad that is clear

io9: What are some ways that you’ll be doing that on the show?

Judkins: I think—well, I can’t tell you all of them, but in the books, there’s an idea that if you’re born as a man in one life, you’d be born as a man in the next life in the show. We’re not doing that. We’re approaching it as you are a soul and you move through different bodies through whatever life that you’re in. So that’s one. It’s a very fundamental change actually to make to the book series, and it has a lot of ripple effects, and we’ll continue to do things like that I think are more reflective of what hopefully Robert Jordan would be writing if he was writing today

Yup I'm done 1 staring it and setting it to never show up on my list.

[Kreuger]

he's a complete idiot glad that is clear

Yeah, moving towards that feeling aswell.


A few more interviews

https://deadline.com/2021/11/the-whe...es-1234870995/
https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/whe...es-1235108671/

[Grimbold21]

Ok my memory must be fuzzy now. What is he on about there being female dragons? The story states the Pattern requires the Dragon to be a male channeler

[Xath]

Ok my memory must be fuzzy now. What is he on about there being female dragons? The story states the Pattern requires the Dragon to be a male channeler

Correct there is a female adversary but she isn't born in cycles the dragon is

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io9: While Jordan rarely mentions anything regarding race in the novels, the show’s incredibly diverse casting feels like an update as well.

Kehoe: I think you’ve got to. We absolutely have done that and tried to keep it up to date and make it organic, which I think we’ve done very successfully. It doesn’t feel like you force those characters into that situation. As Mike said on various other calls, the [show’s] physical Breaking of the World allowed us to have cast diversity from all over the world. In Emond’s Field, for example, there are people who come from all these different countries. So that’s the way we portrayed our world

Holy crap the level of stupidity being exhibited is amazing