1. #381
    Well, if anything, maybe...just maybe, this Rafe is just talking crap to see if "subverting expectations" would be a good idea.

  2. #382
    No way this is making 8 seasons. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets abandoned before it even finishes. Just too many red flags popping up the more they reveal.

  3. #383
    Interesting bit;
    “Brandon is super honest, saying, ‘I don’t think this works, for this reason,’ and then I’m like ‘OK I have to pay serious attention to this,’” Judkins revealed. “And then there have been times to where I’m like, ‘No, this is why we’re doing it. It’s a choice and I actually think it really works and it’s going to work for us long-term.’ And then we agree to disagree on it.”

    -Rafe

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    No way this is making 8 seasons. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets abandoned before it even finishes. Just too many red flags popping up the more they reveal.
    "We want to be the next GoT! So what we did was look at the last season of GoT and basically just go with how they did that, you know, so we have a seamless continuation of the hype." <- or something like how I imagine this production turning out.

    Entirely prejudiced, of course. But man, they didn't just lower the bar with what they've revealed so far, they introduced us to a team of professional diggers that showed us just how far down they've made it already.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
    Interview with Rafe

    https://gizmodo.com/adapting-the-whe...-ow-1848026456

    1 of the quastions with answers:

    io9: Speaking of, the show’s seemingly biggest change from the books is the revelation that a female character could be a potential Dragon Reborn, whereas in the books the Dragon is exclusively male.

    Judkins: I think the idea that the Dragon Reborn doesn’t necessarily need to only be a male character, that’s really important. We see that play out in a number of different ways through the season. Also, as we learn, some of the Dragons of the past were women. How was that different? How did that affect the world? So that one change that we’ve made, it really does flutter through the whole series. I think it’s good to make changes like that and to put them in the show, even if it does have those effects.



    Really should read the full interview, he gets asked and answers alot of the questions in this thread(perhaps not allways to satisfaction)
    I...I'm not sure I'm even going to bother with the show now..."SoMe of ThE dRagOns oF ThE PaSt."
    "It's just one little change. I think it's good to fundamentally change source material!"

    No respect.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Correct there is a female adversary but she isn't born in cycles the dragon is

    - - - Updated - - -

    io9: While Jordan rarely mentions anything regarding race in the novels, the show’s incredibly diverse casting feels like an update as well.

    Kehoe: I think you’ve got to. We absolutely have done that and tried to keep it up to date and make it organic, which I think we’ve done very successfully. It doesn’t feel like you force those characters into that situation. As Mike said on various other calls, the [show’s] physical Breaking of the World allowed us to have cast diversity from all over the world. In Emond’s Field, for example, there are people who come from all these different countries. So that’s the way we portrayed our world

    Holy crap the level of stupidity being exhibited is amazing
    I remember being foolish enough to believe that Jorden's world was already so incredibly diverse, that they wouldn't need to SJW the whole thing.

  6. #386
    Think GoT without dragons...

  7. #387
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    “Brandon is super honest, saying, ‘I don’t think this works, for this reason,’ and then I’m like ‘OK I have to pay serious attention to this,’” Judkins revealed. “And then there have been times to where I’m like, ‘No, this is why we’re doing it. It’s a choice and I actually think it really works and it’s going to work for us long-term.’ And then we agree to disagree on it.”

    -Rafe
    Looks like their doing dirty by Brandon. The closer we get, the more we see, the less excited I become. Having waited years for this, I'm sure it's going to be a let down. Lets just hope in the future it gets made by someone who respects the author.

    As many have said, this is probably one of the most diverse book series written and it was well ahead of its time. I don't think people like Rafe realise how much damage they do to their own agenda by making such sweeping changes in the name of diversity.
    Last edited by Smallfruitbat; 2021-11-11 at 11:15 AM.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    There's actually a large male suicide rate because men feel like expressing their victimization is "unmanly"...which is a hallmark of "toxic masculinity"...but that's neither here nor there.
    This is sad. But it's worth noting how the genders do react differently to the same thing. And all these sex wars is basically not allowing men to pick up strengths from women to deal with their issues and women to pick up attributes from men to deal with them. Our society is so male focused and centred, everything is including nudity and victimisation is handled from a male centric perspective, even the push for so called equality has often seemed to me a male centred or ale centric poV on what is fair or what is considered good.

    The worse is women who think they're finally achieved similar things to men, and when i look at it, they've basically just turned into men with different body parts rather than succeeded in making female orientated attributes actually on an equal level as male ones. It's really sad.

    Then men are being pumped full of how shit they are and toxic etc, when some things a re simply the nature of a man, if you're male you've had to deal with this all your life and pushed back or being swallowed up. From a female perspective it might be toxic, but it's just the male world.

    No one recognises differences.. we are not the same, we have differences, yet those different aspects fit together in a certain way, change them. We should be learning from each other and getting along, rather than hating and ostracising each other, because each has something to give the other, that together we make a more comlete picture.



    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    But its just factual that there is more gratuitous nudity of female actors than male ones. Again, that's not saying that men can not, and have not been sexualized...but they are typically only asked to show what society deems as "acceptable"...which is usually just showing a bare chest. Our society treats a bare-chested man in public as normal...whereas there is a much more negative view on public female toplessness....to the point where it is often illegal.
    I know right, so many other culture, barechested women is not a terrible or "sexual" thing at all. Bear in mind most of these cultures are in hot climates so you have a lot of barechestedness.

    But I'm not criticising our culture. If in our culture nudity is a sexualising thing, when it isn't in others, then we must off course behave differently. I do not agree with women having to show a lot ore nudity than men, and it is unfair to an extent that female frontal nudity is considered sexual while male nudity is to a far lesser extent.


    This is basically down to individuals. IT's the males in our culture that are too hyper sexual , and because females bend around males in our culture, this is why it happens. These people make women bare their boobs more to please the male audiences, this is what gets males going because males are more sexual focused, there are lotsof things that are done to please female audiences. It's just not the same.

    If we have much more backlash against the things that males find attractive - then we are being male focused. Personally, I don't agree or believe in needing to sexualise people in media.

    I love the account of the Aiel, they're barechested , do their sweat tents, but that is a cultural thing, like you have in some cultures. That's fine to show in that context.. but intentionally filming males for nudity or females, neither is good, whether it is something that pleases males a lot or pleases female it's the wrong thing to put out there imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    If we want to talk about equal level of exposure...the best thing to talk about is naked ass shots. We do, on occasion, see the male buttocks...but it is far less common than the rate we see the female.

    Full frontal nudity is also more common with women than men.
    Tis entirely true, and tis entirely wrong too. IT happens for the reasons I stated above, but still doesn't make it right.

    Rather than getting caught up on how unfair it is for women to show more ass than men or being required to, the problem is showing that feel of nudity.. If you're a gay man and a woman, you'd likely wanna see male ass a lot more or rather prefer it, but it is a bit disturbing that we want to see other people's naked bodies rather than our partners/lovers/spouse's this si what is twisted, so why show this at all, unless it is necessary to the story .

    Anyway I understand her dig, she is right, has a point, but i also question the interviewer for making that the highlight of their discussion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    There's no shame in just saying "I read it wrong, my bad"

    But in any event, the way that representation seems to overrule important story elements - and that in a work already very high on the female empowerment scale - is just deplorable. I'm all for representation, empowerment, etc. But that's not an ends onto itself. It should be PART of a good story, not SUBSTITUTE for a good story. You can't just do shitty writing and point to all the virtue signaling you put in as though it fixes everything. That's a really bad tendency in modern media production.

    And to be clear: I'm talking about RELEVANT story points. Ariel the mermaid being black doesn't change anything relevant. The Dragon Reborn being a woman DOES.
    Very well said, if i said the same thing I would probably sound misogynistic, even though I didn't intend to. THis is the problem with what they are doing, it's warping their tales and stories, and often enough reducing them (imo) making them less powerful.

    I am disturbed by his comment that "to bring it to modern audiences"... modern? That work has everything it's not low on gender or racial diversity, female empowerment etc, the only thing is perhaps sexual orientation, but it seems that no changes are being made on that front, instead we having greater female empowerment as if to make a statement.. when we already had enough as is, and you could just have drawn attention to what is already a natural part of the tail in your trailers to advocate the feminity of the show.

    I also think this is a bad pay personally, if you want something to be popular, you need to appeal to both sexes, males are actually half of your population, and the book was quite popular with both genders, you risk alienating and putting off males even further, to take one look at this and conclude, oh here we have another "women shoved down our throats and how amazing they are and how terrible or low we are", kinda thing.

    You could totally spin Jordan's work to say that using the fats, but the way he presented that, you never felt that way despite the female dominance. I thoroughly enjoyed it. These current decisions seem so un-necessary, and I feel diminish the quality of the plot and it's uniqueness.

    There is gender dichotomy in this pronounced heavily, but this is how it should be done when you're being good to both genders.. this is rare, and Jordan' gets a good balance, you never feel one gender is worse or better, even though males seem a bit worse to be fair, yet they are different and there is a brokenness in the males that wasn't there in the age of legends.

    These changes are only going to please a very very small group of people, and actually count against hte series for the vast majority of people that watch it. They want it to be popular, but are changing it for the worse in ways that only please a small crowd. For PR stunt? Do you want to make money, make a good product that most people will like or play social politics??

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Smallfruitbat View Post
    Looks like their doing dirty by Brandon. The closer we get, the more we see, the less excited I become. Having waited years for this, I'm sure it's going to be a let down. Lets just hope in the future it gets made by someone who respects the author.

    As many have said, this is probably one of the most diverse book series written and it was well ahead of its time. I don't think people like Rafe realise how much damage they do to their own agenda by making such sweeping changes in the name of diversity.
    It might not be, but it's looking that way. The changes are disappointing. For those who have read it, ti's taking a lot of key elements integral to the story, alienating your main fanbase in not a good way. it's going to piss off the majority of us who have read it, which is millions strong. Those who haven't ofc, wouldn't know otherwise, they may still like it, but it would not be as nice as it would have been if the show makers had been more faithful.

    I wonder if they'd be confused and shocked when they read the actual books, would those changes spoil the show for them or spoil the book for them. It seems a pointles srisk that does nothing really, isn't necessary to achieve any of the things they say the changes are done for.

    So why do it? They're basically lying and just following the trend because amazon tells them they have to make it more this, or more that, but you don't get more diverse than Wheel of tie in fantasy, it's so woke as is.. and this is coming from a woke person. I'm just not a crazy.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    You guys are just making it bad for each other by talking in spirals and speculate over completely unfounded stuff... at that point this show could be the best thing ever created and all of you would hate its guts just cause... Honestly a bit funny. How about you wait for even the FIRST epsiode to be released?
    Maybe "Rafe" should shut the hell up with his talk of making changes that alter the books.

  10. #390
    “Brandon is super honest, saying, ‘I don’t think this works, for this reason,’ and then I’m like ‘OK I have to pay serious attention to this,’” Judkins revealed. “And then there have been times to where I’m like, ‘No, this is why we’re doing it. It’s a choice and I actually think it really works and it’s going to work for us long-term.’ And then we agree to disagree on it.”

    -Rafe
    Oh god, please no. Disagreeing with Sanderson about a book series that he grew up idolizing and which only Harriet has greater sway over is basically the same as declaring yourself to be Wrong.

    This fool has doomed the project before it has even taken off.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    You guys are just making it bad for each other by talking in spirals and speculate over completely unfounded stuff... at that point this show could be the best thing ever created and all of you would hate its guts just cause...

    Honestly a bit funny. How about you wait for even the FIRST epsiode to be released?
    We are responding an interview and at this point I don't plan on watching it.

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Exactly my point^^

    The interview is not the show. You don't even know what point he disagreed with Sanderson on. Maybe it was something that would have made the show way to long. Or two side characters have been merged because it doesn't make a difference in the long run.
    Sanderson writes good books. I read all of them... i think... but he tends to go on about minor stuff sometimes way to long. He is not infallible nor perfect. Also he is not a screenwriter. He writes massive novels. Like really really long books.
    I already know that he is wiping his butt with RJ's concept of souls being reborn the same as they were and likely with the one power split.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    Oh god, please no. Disagreeing with Sanderson about a book series that he grew up idolizing and which only Harriet has greater sway over is basically the same as declaring yourself to be Wrong. This fool has doomed the project before it has even taken off.
    It does sound as if we're not getting much of the books so much as someone else's interpretation, or perhaps better to say, someone else's vision of thinking to make it "better."

    I'm not paying for that.

  14. #394
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    Do you write a show with an idea how long it'll run or do you just go for the never-ending story?

    Successful shows end up spelling their own doom at times while on the other hand shows full of potential never go beyond the first season before getting cut.

    I guess it's a balancing act between time, funding and popularity in the end but how the sausage gets made is never pretty. They all aspire to be the next GoT for better or worse... but picking a book series with an ending can only be a plus.

    I'll check a couple episodes and cross my fingers for the bookfans but I'd wager it won't go over well with the originalists much like other filmed books.
    Every patch is the worst until the next one arrives, then it's nostalgia and suddenly the best while the new patch takes over being the worst.

    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    No you don't. You basing this of ONE sentence in the trailer. Which still could be taken out of context or is just there to keep the viewer a bit more out of the loop as in the tvshow you probably do not get all the exposition you get in the books.
    This could be the one thing he said would be cleared in the end of the season to keep up the tension.
    No I'm basing it off the interview where he said they are getting rid of gendered souls.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Interesting bit;
    So...a show decision maker is someone who may or may not actually care about the source material and will make decisions that directly contradict and disagree with the person who actually wrote part of the series.

    All for...what? diversity? In a series that is already LOADED with it? WTF?

    This just keep getting better and better.../s

  17. #397
    If something is being actively promoted before it is even released, then it doesn't need to actually release before red flags can be identified. A common lesson in life, that many would do well to embrace, is that not all change is for the better.

    Though large swathes of the entertainment industry are unfortunately infested with those with an agenda. They can't respect something in its original form - they feel compelled to change it to fit their misguided whims.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it enjoys a lukewarm success with each season being less successful than the previous one until it ends up being pulled altogether.

  18. #398
    Supposed leaks that seem to line up with interviews have a few shall we say ridiculous things in then

    Rand and Egwene get it on removing one of min's prophecies I guess maybe she ends up in Rafe's version of the Rand harem

    Perrin apparently has a wife and supposedly accidentally kills her to create conflict within himself because talking to Wolves isn't going to fuck him up enough

    Thom doesn't have patches on his cloak

    Gitra's foretelling appears to have been completely removed and Moiraine legitimately doesn't know which of thr five it is wasn't just trailer bs.

    Nynaeve gets captured by Trollocs and then escapes them.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Supposed leaks that seem to line up with interviews have a few shall we say ridiculous things in then
    Where are these leaks coming from?

    Holy hell, this looks bad.....

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Where are these leaks coming from? Holy hell, this looks bad.....
    Reading through the dragonmount forums and it looks legit. Apparently Rafe thinks he can improve the books with his idiotic vision.

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