1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Where are these leaks coming from?

    Holy hell, this looks bad.....
    They were posted several days before the interviews on the reddit sub and were dismissed because he can't be that stupid but are now getting corroborated by interviews and early watchers.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Reading through the dragonmount forums and it looks legit. Apparently Rafe thinks he can improve the books with his idiotic vision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    They were posted several days before the interviews on the reddit sub and were dismissed because he can't be that stupid but are now getting corroborated by interviews and early watchers.
    /nuclearfacepalm

    This is going to be worse than the original mario brothers adaptation from the 90's, and pretty much every other video game to movie adaptation ever.

    I'll watch the first episodes that are released and decide, but if it's anywhere near as bad as it looks I won't be able to keep watching, if I'm even able to finish watching the first episodes.

    Seriously, why change what's already considered a good thing? wtf does Rafe think he's doing? This isn't his story to tell.

  3. #403
    Epic! Malania's Avatar
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    Never read the books, are they any good?

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Never read the books, are they any good?
    Books are great get the audio books and listen to them at work they are very large books. Some slow down in the middle but overall great books. TV series is unfortunately seeming very much like a skip though.

  5. #405
    Epic! Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Books are great get the audio books and listen to them at work they are very large books. Some slow down in the middle but overall great books. TV series is unfortunately seeming very much like a skip though.
    TV series and movie conversions of a good book series are very rarely worth watching sadly. Some do better than other's but usually I just prefer the books.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    TV series and movie conversions of a good book series are very rarely worth watching sadly. Some do better than other's but usually I just prefer the books.
    Wheel of Time could absolutely have been a well done adapt with a show runner who wasn't a pretentious ass that thought that Jordan would "updated" it for the modern day. Maybe we get an animated adaptation eventually after this bombs.

  7. #407
    Some of those leaked changes are bad, especially the Perrin one. Imaging fridging a female character in this day and age.

  8. #408
    It all comes down to hubris. They think they can improve the source material and the easiest way for them is to adapt it to current day trends. It's disrespectful imo, specially for a series that has so many powerful female characters.

  9. #409
    Moiraine; "Lan? I got this. Hold my beer.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Never read the books, are they any good?
    Yes and no.

    The first book takes a really long time to get going. And, personally, I found after like Book 6...the series really starts to drag on...and theres still like 8 books to go after that. The whole series was originally planned to only be 6 books...but it just spun out of control. I found there's just a whole lot of nonsense side-stories that seem to exist just to justify keeping characters around that had otherwise outlived their usefullness.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Never read the books, are they any good?
    My old review:

    The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan is 14 books long, and each book is quite thick. At first I thought it was a trilogy and when it didn't end in the 3rd book I got annoyed. I ignored the 4th book when it came out and in the following year when the 5th book came out, I figured what the hell. Bought the 4th book, and was glad that I had the 5th book readily available because that 4th book ended on a very curious note. And then that 6th book came out and I was yelling at it at times (Dumai's Wells chapter) and it ended on such a peak...gah! Jordan later did some "experimental writing" that didn't come across too well on a couple of later books, and then he up and died before finishing the series. The last three books were co-authored by Brandon Sanderson under the aegis of Jordan's wife who had done some of the editing on the other books. The series ended on a very satisfying note.

  12. #412
    WoT is, in a weird way, more interesting in summary than in detail. It has some cool world-building going on, and an array of very compelling players on the larger field of the overarching plot. But it also has a lot of overly detailed deep-dives into errant strands of half-formed mythologies (like e.g. the Great Hunt, or most of Tel'aran'rhiod) and a very, uh, "generous" overall pacing. It feels like a bit of a chore at times, and frustratingly drawn-out. 13 books is simply too much (and that's not counting the prequel) for what is really a fairly standard good-vs-evil narrative. As a result of that bloat, there's a few unfortunate tendencies that can be observed, like e.g. power inflation for characters.

    It's not as detail-obsessed as the A Song of Ice and Fire books (GoT) but certainly there's a lot of uncompressed plot floating about that could perhaps have been condensed neatly without too much loss.

    I actually use WoT when teaching narratology as an example of narrative running rampant, in contrast to e.g. The Lord of the Rings where epic scope can still be contained in a reasonable narrative length. I'm not sure if the size of WoT would work for it or against it in a TV adaptation. On the one hand people will undoubtedly get bored; on the other hand, there seems to be a kind of boundless appetite for content. Hard to say, but probably irrelevant if they botch it in other aspects, like it seems they are...

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    WoT is, in a weird way, more interesting in summary than in detail. It has some cool world-building going on, and an array of very compelling players on the larger field of the overarching plot. But it also has a lot of overly detailed deep-dives into errant strands of half-formed mythologies (like e.g. the Great Hunt, or most of Tel'aran'rhiod) and a very, uh, "generous" overall pacing. It feels like a bit of a chore at times, and frustratingly drawn-out. 13 books is simply too much (and that's not counting the prequel) for what is really a fairly standard good-vs-evil narrative. As a result of that bloat, there's a few unfortunate tendencies that can be observed, like e.g. power inflation for characters.

    It's not as detail-obsessed as the A Song of Ice and Fire books (GoT) but certainly there's a lot of uncompressed plot floating about that could perhaps have been condensed neatly without too much loss.

    I actually use WoT when teaching narratology as an example of narrative running rampant, in contrast to e.g. The Lord of the Rings where epic scope can still be contained in a reasonable narrative length. I'm not sure if the size of WoT would work for it or against it in a TV adaptation. On the one hand people will undoubtedly get bored; on the other hand, there seems to be a kind of boundless appetite for content. Hard to say, but probably irrelevant if they botch it in other aspects, like it seems they are...
    I'm not sure I agree with you about WoT not being as detailed-obsessed as ASoIaF (though I do agree there is an obsession present in both series)...but everything else is spot on. The authors of both those series certainly underestimated the amount of books they would need to tell their stories. Jordan planned on 6 and ended up with 14 (though since the last couple were written by Sanderson there perhaps needs to be an asterisk there) and Martin originally envisioned the series as a trilogy and it's going to be at least 7 books by the time its done. Both of them could probably have benefitted from having harsher editors.
    Last edited by Egomaniac; 2021-11-12 at 02:24 AM.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Some of those leaked changes are bad, especially the Perrin one. Imaging fridging a female character in this day and age.
    I think it's bad because it was an unnecessary change to his character's background, not because a female character died in the story.

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorshen View Post
    It all comes down to hubris. They think they can improve the source material and the easiest way for them is to adapt it to current day trends. It's disrespectful imo, specially for a series that has so many powerful female characters.
    Yeah considering the entire world is matriarchal from the lowliest tribes to the fanciest kingdoms and wasteland warriors, and for how much of a distinction there is between men and women in the story, you’d think it would be modern or unique enouh, anything else seems forced. I guess it’s to address trans girls the same way Y the Last Man did?

    I do like some of the cast like the main three and nynaeve. When I saw nynaeve I was like “holy shit perfect” then realized it was Egwene, but the actual nynaeve is good too. However everything else I’ve seen has felt off, starting from the casting of Rosamund Pike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I'm not sure if the size of WoT would work for it or against it in a TV adaptation. On the one hand people will undoubtedly get bored; on the other hand, there seems to be a kind of boundless appetite for content. Hard to say, but probably irrelevant if they botch it in other aspects, like it seems they are...
    In the end I think the cast are what keeps a show like that from going beyond 7 or 8 seasons, that itself is a long commitment for an actor, and to need it for so many people is a task. There’s plenty in the books that could be pruned but without knowing how long you’re gonna be around it would be almost impossible to have steady pacing, unless you try to have one great battle/boss per season, but then you end up feeling like Smallville or an anime. Which in fairness the books sometimes did, where each one took out…whatever the evil guys released at the end of book 1 were called.
    Last edited by ProphetFlume; 2021-11-13 at 06:07 AM.
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    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
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    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Never read the books, are they any good?
    Everyone will have their own opinion of the series.

    Personally I thought the story itself was good and had very interesting ideas. I just don't really care for Jordan and Sanderson's (read Mistborn and stormlight archive too) writing styles. Doesn't mean I dislike the worlds they create.
    Bandwagon sports fans can eat a bag of http://www.ddir.com/ .

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    No you don't. You basing this of ONE sentence in the trailer. Which still could be taken out of context or is just there to keep the viewer a bit more out of the loop as in the tvshow you probably do not get all the exposition you get in the books.
    This could be the one thing he said would be cleared in the end of the season to keep up the tension.
    I think you are being naive to think that sentence is been taken out of context.

    It is possible we are doing that, but in the current Hollywood entertainment climate? There is no chance, they are changing one of the most pro female tales in necessarily for just the sake of it - or to cause controversy -

    No matter how you slice it, it’s unnecessary. The male and female gender roles are very important to the story, that is very pro female already seems utterly pointless and will take away from the uniqueness of this world just to homogenise it unnecessarily with everything else.

    The beauty of fantasy books was how uniquely different their worlds were. And it stood out when they told a good story.

    Changing the possibility of the dragon reborn’s gender is a fundamental change to the way this world works and a major point of the story. And completely destroys a powerful dynamic.

    The funny thing is that it’s not anti male or female but is a powerful and unique expression. Why change it? For clicks?

    This is a disappointing move. I can understand certain aspects tweaked for the screen. But this is changing a lot more than that and has nothing to do with adapting it fir the screen but everything to do with this stupid craziness going on - funnily in one of the most woke fantasy tales.


    It’s totally unnecessary. Except that his world view doesn’t fit the current intersectional religion’s ethos so they have to change it to fit the new religion even though it is already

    1. Super diverse
    2. Super pro female and female empowering
    3. You got body positive heroes and disabled ones
    4. You have homosexuality (Red Ajah)
    5. Nudity (Ariel)

    Just not in quite the arrangement the current new religion wants it.

    Are Amazon , Disney etc going to change everything that is written to fit their new religion now?

    This is not about diversity nor equality, if it was this part would not have been changed. It’s about making everything fit one view.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    I think it's bad because it was an unnecessary change to his character's background, not because a female character died in the story.
    They should have made Rand, Mat and Perrin female and altered the story to say something like, some women are born accessing the left side of the power which the last Lady Dragon, a lefty corrupted.


    It’s essentially the same story, but now all the mains are female, Rhianda is Lesbian, because we won’t change Elayne, Min or Aviendha’s gender, and her first love interest is Egwene. So her sexuality is established straight away.

    Marya Cauthon would be straight until she meets the Seanchan heiress.

    Perri, short for Perriyana will meet her lover Faile and instead of cultural disapproval, it would be sexual orientation disapproval. Altho we could make Faile male.

    Women who channel the left side of the one power are hunted down, and they are known as evil witches.


    Actually it works don’t you think? It’s literally the same story, just no male heroes here.

    The Dark One has to be male though, because he is evil all his pawns are male, because that’s what males should be, but his forsaken leaders are all female

    This is the only way to show we have made progressive changes

  18. #418
    Scarab Lord Skizzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    I think it's bad because it was an unnecessary change to his character's background, not because a female character died in the story.
    Is it that big of a change though? I could have sworn part of Perrin's backstory was that he was afraid of his size and strength and that he would accidently hurt people so he is always carful to be calm and gentle. This seems like just another way to get to that same point.

    I dunno. I only read the first 6 books before getting kinda bored and have yet to return and it was a couple years ago. I am no expert or anything.

  19. #419
    Well...as it was already pointed out, Perrin's wife dying in the beginning...y'know because his eyes turning color, and wolves talking to him, and worried that he might be labeled a "dark friend" wasn't enough of a mindfuck for him.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    WoT is, in a weird way, more interesting in summary than in detail. It has some cool world-building going on, and an array of very compelling players on the larger field of the overarching plot. But it also has a lot of overly detailed deep-dives into errant strands of half-formed mythologies (like e.g. the Great Hunt, or most of Tel'aran'rhiod) and a very, uh, "generous" overall pacing. It feels like a bit of a chore at times, and frustratingly drawn-out. 13 books is simply too much (and that's not counting the prequel) for what is really a fairly standard good-vs-evil narrative. As a result of that bloat, there's a few unfortunate tendencies that can be observed, like e.g. power inflation for characters.

    It's not as detail-obsessed as the A Song of Ice and Fire books (GoT) but certainly there's a lot of uncompressed plot floating about that could perhaps have been condensed neatly without too much loss.

    I actually use WoT when teaching narratology as an example of narrative running rampant, in contrast to e.g. The Lord of the Rings where epic scope can still be contained in a reasonable narrative length. I'm not sure if the size of WoT would work for it or against it in a TV adaptation. On the one hand people will undoubtedly get bored; on the other hand, there seems to be a kind of boundless appetite for content. Hard to say, but probably irrelevant if they botch it in other aspects, like it seems they are...
    I love those deep dives. Especially when they are interesting and the things they are about alsonplay a role in the story.

    I’m not in a hurry, and they inform the stage rather than a quick summary.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That the Dragon reborn might be female I don’t Thom impacts the main plot at all if he turns out to be male anyway.

    What it does is alter a unique and worthy facet of the narrative and ethos that added a compelling sense of urgency alarm and dread that underpin’s thing.

    If he is male it is still terrifying because of Saidin, but the show might never have the time for the plot detail that makes the change to the prophecy as big a thing to it as it is to the book

    - - - Updated - - -

    Face it, they’re never going to be able to flesh out all the key nuances.

    Don’t get me wrong. I strongly disagree with the change. It was unnecessary from any vantage point save pandering to certain groups that have better ways to do so which the story makes provision. It also hurts the book or transitioning to the book where you will immediately notice the difference.
    My oI will then realise the way the book did it was better and you will think less of the person who directed this change. Sometimes a lot less

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