1. #4301
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    An author who wants to see some of his work adapted not shit talking one of the few major studios doing tv shows? I'm shocked!

    Not to mention he is tied to the show being reviewed in question. However if you watch the show you can tell he has a lot of issues and it bugs him, but he is suppressing his complaints to a minimum, not to mention Sanderson is a very positive/upbeat person in general, so to be as critical as he was is a large tell.



    So now we can't even talk about intent? Can't discuss his body language or words he actually said, and compare it to words he has said before to gathering a meaning? Amazing moderation, to be expected from you.
    The fact that we have to explain this to some people makes me seriously wonder about their grasp on reality or ability to perceive. I know we are all capable of error, kidding ourselves, and blinding ourselves off course. However, we do get people who have easily pointed out and explained what those less capable of understanding don't get. What astounds me is after people like yourself point out the obvious, and explain it well, some of these people are so stubborn or maybe so optimisitc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Translation, since you didn't get what he meant with that:

    'The show is crap, but i can't say anything bad because my name is on it, and is part of the ip i work on'
    Ikr - it's so obvious ... you can literally tell the guy is not happy about it, but isn't saying it out outright, it doesn't take much , when you do know his name is on the IP and he was hired by the studio and is an author himself that might want his shows televised in the future, that he can't really say anything.

    Also, that doesn't take his personality into account. He could be a very positive and upbeat guy, even nice guy, which means he would generally try to be as positive as possible, but when you know the type, it is clear they don't think much of it. You can tell how they really feel, and it's clear they're being as nice as possible without outright saying it's shit.

    You can even tell by the quality of the things they say are okay about or are positive about, where there shoudl be a lot more.

  2. #4302
    I don't know what is obvious and what is not. What I do know is that I heard several legitimate criticisms from Sanderson in that video, most of which are not about how faithful the adaptation is but rather about mistakes made that diminish the narrative structure of the season. If following those critiques he feels compelled to make another post to backtrack, then I see it as exactly that. Backtracking.

  3. #4303
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I don't know what is obvious and what is not. What I do know is that I heard several legitimate criticisms from Sanderson in that video, most of which are not about how faithful the adaptation is but rather about mistakes made that diminish the narrative structure of the season. If following those critiques he feels compelled to make another post to backtrack, then I see it as exactly that. Backtracking.
    The shows narrative is very inconsistent, and full of plot holes. However, most of us who read the books, know there wouldn't be such a problem if they followed the book and hten we get caught up arguing over the devaitions from the book, rather than shows story itself.. but both are valid discussion points for this topic so , can't crticise anyone for commentary on the adaptation.

  4. #4304
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I don't know what is obvious and what is not. What I do know is that I heard several legitimate criticisms from Sanderson in that video, most of which are not about how faithful the adaptation is but rather about mistakes made that diminish the narrative structure of the season. If following those critiques he feels compelled to make another post to backtrack, then I see it as exactly that. Backtracking.
    Does he do any actual back tracking through? Going though atleast the list Corvus mocked up none of those points are contested in the Reddit thread and some are doubled down on like those around the one power.

    All the Reddit comments seem to do is give context why he thinks some of the things he didn’t like might have happened in house and that while he has critics he still thinks the show is an improvement over the first season and he doesn’t hate either, are there more comments in the podcast that he actually reneges on in that thread?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  5. #4305
    Scarab Lord Skizzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Fox was actually going to make a movie based on the series before they were bought out by Disney getting the rights and shopping around for people to work on it.

    Post Disney though it died in the vine with them not doing any thing with it and I think letting them rights lasp and Sanderson being rather disappointed about it and saying he was going to focus on other stuff and not try for tv for a time.
    That's a bummer. It's a fun series that would work well as a TV series as long as they put some actual money into it. Maybe it is for the best. Sanderson seems to have bad luck with getting adaptations actually made.

  6. #4306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzit View Post
    Honestly surprised there was never any attempt to adapt The Reckoners into a TV show, especially during the Superhero popularity and after mega hits like The Boys. It seems like it would be pretty easy to adapt outside of maybe the settings as they take place in some pretty wild locations.
    I read Steelheart and thought it was kinda mid, but I think a lot of that is because it is a YA series and lacks the kind of scope that I like from Sanderson's other works. I'm not sure it is a series that Sanderson would have adapted, but it is probably more marketable for the average Marvel and DC consoomerist than his other series.

  7. #4307
    I'm about half way through the first book and really like the story and writing style so far. I'm gonna go ahead and buy the next couple of books. I was wondering what other gems might be out there worth reading?

    I've read the first 3 Witcher books, all The Expanse books, all the GoT books, LoTR, Harry Potter etc. Like all the really big ones. I like sci-fi, fantasy w/e.

  8. #4308
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv...en-1235618641/

    Some information about season 3 has been revealed. The season will focus on Book 4 story lines and feature Tanchico and Rhuidean as well as the sea folk.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #4309
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsRainingMetal View Post
    I'm about half way through the first book and really like the story and writing style so far. I'm gonna go ahead and buy the next couple of books. I was wondering what other gems might be out there worth reading?

    I've read the first 3 Witcher books, all The Expanse books, all the GoT books, LoTR, Harry Potter etc. Like all the really big ones. I like sci-fi, fantasy w/e.
    The obvious answer is mistborn/stormlight/any Sanderson books.

    There’s discworld if you want great fantasy story’s with a bit of a more comical twist.

    And I’m a bit fan of the Licanius Trilogy with it being short in comparison to the other series and sweet.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  10. #4310
    Scarab Lord Skizzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    And I’m a bit fan of the Licanius Trilogy with it being short in comparison to the other series and sweet.
    Read that a couple of years ago and was surprised how good it was considering I never hear anyone talk about it.

  11. #4311
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzit View Post
    Read that a couple of years ago and was surprised how good it was considering I never hear anyone talk about it.
    Ya I've had the same experience haven't seen any one talk about it ever but it's a great series. I need to pick up the novel the author put out recently as Id say he's one to keep an eye on based off the trilogy.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  12. #4312
    I've known The Wheel of Time for decades but I have never read the book.
    The problem with this series is that doesn't make want to start reading the books, I found every "good side" character deeply stupid, unlikable and illogical in their actions and words, at this point (s02e05) I'm rooting for the bad guys
    Is it a problem of bad writing of the TV series or were they that stupid in the books too?

  13. #4313
    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    I've known The Wheel of Time for decades but I have never read the book.
    The problem with this series is that doesn't make want to start reading the books, I found every "good side" character deeply stupid, unlikable and illogical in their actions and words, at this point (s02e05) I'm rooting for the bad guys
    Is it a problem of bad writing of the TV series or were they that stupid in the books too?
    That's because the show is awful.. they try writing it to make it a different story for peple who've read the book so they'd be interested and hope it wouldn't matter for people who haven't read the book - instead no body like its it except a few fringe sycophants because of bending the knee to intersectional feminism ideology and the odd person here and there.

    People who've read the book are massively disappointed because most things in the show are a lot worse, all the favourite characters and best moments are often gone, or shown so bad, with the wrong characters in ways that make no sense. Lotso f new scenes and characters that make you go WTF - so they had time for this but not to tell the story.

    For those who've never read the book. Nothing makes sense. WTF is going on? So many scenes seem to contradict themselves, and the world system and magic system seem totally messed up you can' make heads or tails. It seems very superficial, so little to get you to care about any of the characters except for "hey, I'm a woman and i'm powerful because I say I am and can do magic this" - which is dumb, but appeals to those who will auto like anything that shows a woman wielding some power even if it's shite.

    The few good scenes and moments, are often spoiled because they mean little to nothing, and you wonder why do them? ooh, to create drama of the moment, they have no bearing on the stoyr and are on characters that are dead weight... the funny thing is the character deepening doesn't make the series more interesting nor the world more desirable.


    No cgood thing from the book carries on. The book had you HOOKED... you wanted to know what was coming in every chapter,.. this man keeps it up to make you fly through 50 chapters with pages totalling over 1,000 ...and they thought what he wrote just wasn't worth doing his way.

    The characters - boy the way he wrote the characters, you loved them, or hated them in character - not as characters, they had so many good moments, humourous moments, great moements, you cared for them, felt how they felt could relate to them.. andno one has written a fantasy series with magical powers taht does a better job at growing chracters that come from no where into world changing heroes. All of this is wiped out.

    Wheel of time was charming and relatable, a very good story everyone could identify with in away that made magic make sense too. This was its strength. And it carried itself on both an epic and character centred way extremely well. It's not a political plots series like game of thrones, and while it is an epic fantasy like Lordof the Rings, it's not just one journey. He goes into nations and politics too.

    They showed little to none of the great fantasy things in the book too. They messed up the blight and removed the Eye of the world scene from the book of the same name.. can you bleieve it. Failed to show Cameln as a set, and the Tar valon they show, does not look like the Tar Valon in the books... its is not a gorgeous city, where are all the delicate bridges and multitude of towers, next to the great white tower? WHere is the breathtaking ogier hands design, thatshould make it a visusal feast even for a 21st century adeince?

    The second season feels much cheaper too. Cairhien looks terrible, all the wonders of the world in the first 2 books, the portal worlds, the Ogier stedding, book version Tar VAlon - gone. The replacements much worse.

    And the Aes Sedai are awful here. Nothing special, the mystique from the books, the way they are presented, isn't captured well at all.

    And all they needed to do was follow the books..that's it, it was handed to them, beautifully wrapped up, superbly written..just now visualises it for the screen and make it happen.

    BUt no, they had to change it, no longer satisfies the 20s diversity woke crowd.. because they've all pushed their boundaries and are now insane. They follow ridiculous rules like men can't save a woman, or tell her what to do, women must have more prominent roles than men and must drive the story - this is a plitical activist radical view, and these guys are changing htis mans books to fit htese boxes.. like they're messaging everyone..and the result is this pile of dung poo that's just disappinting

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    The show is watchable if you completely shut off your brain

  14. #4314
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    I've known The Wheel of Time for decades but I have never read the book.
    The problem with this series is that doesn't make want to start reading the books, I found every "good side" character deeply stupid, unlikable and illogical in their actions and words, at this point (s02e05) I'm rooting for the bad guys
    Is it a problem of bad writing of the TV series or were they that stupid in the books too?
    The book main cast are better then the show ones in almost every way though they are also almost all still stupid and illogical in there own ways most of which stay that way for most of the series.

    Only really Lann and Moragine don’t have such issues, and maybe Matt if you don’t count trickster characters to be a problem.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  15. #4315
    So far in the show:

    It's:

    Not Perrin
    Not Matt
    Not Loial
    Not Lan
    Not Moiraine
    Not Min
    Not Siuan



    However, whiles they are doing things differently
    Egwene, Nynaeve, Rand, Lanfear, Ishamael - do feel a bit like their book characters - even though they aren't doing the things in them.

  16. #4316
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    However, whiles they are doing things differently
    Egwene, Nynaeve, Rand, Lanfear, Ishamael - do feel a bit like their book characters - even though they aren't doing the things in them.
    I wouldn’t count Rand among them, atleast not book 1/2 rand, the show version works fine for book 3 onwards (-the sex) but book 1/2 rand is far more in denial about every thing and not as combative.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  17. #4317
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    That's because the show is awful.. they try writing it to make it a different story for peple who've read the book so they'd be interested and hope it wouldn't matter for people who haven't read the book - instead no body like its it except a few fringe sycophants because of bending the knee to intersectional feminism ideology and the odd person here and there.

    --omissis--

    The show is watchable if you completely shut off your brain

    thanks for your passionate answer!
    you made me more curious about the books with one post than the whole two seasons did...

    but Lorgar Aurelian's answer still scares me
    I mean, Egwene has been suffering a lot because of the collar, and what does she do? she still tries to take it off or attack her master... I hope in the books something this stupid doesn't take place

  18. #4318
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    I mean, Egwene has been suffering a lot because of the collar, and what does she do? she still tries to take it off or attack her master... I hope in the books something this stupid doesn't take place
    It does but it’s not something we see it’s just mentioned.

    But mostly the collaring is handled completely differently.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #4319
    I will say this, it's not the actors, not one of them. I think they do a fairly good job mostly, sometimes even excellent...it's just what's been given them. The roles, the scripts.

    I don't get why Ishamael, Lanfear and Liadrin have such huge character arcs, while the main characters do not. I may have appreciated the extras if they had stuck to the book canon, and found choice moments to flesh more depths.

    But every time they start to do something that sorta looks good, or could be, they ruin it for ideology. Ofc Egwene has to save herself.. it's the only way. Then Egwene fending off Ishamael.. lol, I mean, they snare at the book for not being emotionally complex enough or woke enough, then give such over powered roles without rhyme or reason. I mean really. The book did a much better job on every front.

    I guess the budget wasn't large enough to actually do the scenes in both books well enough. I'm sorry, fighting the dark one in the skies above falme with the power was much better.

    It was watchable, and had it's high moments, but very cheesy hollywood. In the book you get a proper story, well written. And much bigger high moments. Last episode saw the boys a little less useless than they had been, but many of their good parts from the book aren't there. The show does give Perrin new powers, Matt seems to be a hero of the horn, and their greatest leader, when in the books it is Rand that is the leader of the heroes.

    Part of the problem with the show is that many of the changes were negative for the male characters, because they were worse than the book, and were blatantly inferior to the women most of the time. It's not that Lan was softer, show Lan's character isn't bad by itself, it's just not the Lan of the book, and the Lan of the book was good because of how he was. He didn't need to be something else.

    Also many of the female roles were over blown, without any good reason. Nynaeve does incredible things because she's female and no other reason.. but then most magic based shows are use to people doing incredible things with no explanation, no training, no drawbacks.. look at Rey in Star Wars, and these people think it's good, no it isn't, the book does it in a far better way.

    We get to know why Rand can suddenly do some things well beyond his level of training, even though the how/why is revealed later, by virtue of being the Dragon Reborn you can at least believe his role imubes a certain level of power.. yet before we get the explanation, Jordan does it in such away that you are not left thinkig this unbelievable in a ridiculous way.. Rand has many flaws and you see him struggle and fail a lot before he gets it right, he's most often powerelss running and escaping from bigger forces, and only on those rare key mometns hwen something else is also stirring that you cach glimpses of his extrordinary power come to bear, and when you read the bok, he's not even really aware of what he is doing, but you find out why and how later.


    None of that is done. Also Jordan gets much better the relative importance between his characters. The show likes to present them as a 5, farily equal in reelveance, not so in the bookk, The Dragon is the most important character and the super Ta'veren, yet you never get the feeling that Perrin and Matt are that less important and you care of the Nynaeve, Egweene , Elayne etc even though they aren't ta'veren at all.

    Yet the show cannot have the male characters hold a position that seems greater than the females. So Lanfear, the Amyrlin , Egwene and Nynaeve, Moiraine are all boosted too. They badly want that SOFEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    thanks for your passionate answer!
    you made me more curious about the books with one post than the whole two seasons did...

    but Lorgar Aurelian's answer still scares me
    I mean, Egwene has been suffering a lot because of the collar, and what does she do? she still tries to take it off or attack her master... I hope in the books something this stupid doesn't take place
    The books do not, they actually explain what's going on and you can clearly see the writer has a brain, and goes to lengths to explain every detail. I really suggest you read the books, or get an audio book so you can listen (the male voice reader is no Stephen Fry, but you get the story from the book).

    The book has a chapter that describes Egwene's situation where he shows us how the Damane works and the limitations on the damane, at the end of it Egwene knows exactly what it does. Those additional scenes in the show where Egweene is again trying to take off the colour do not happen in the books. She gets out of the colour in a very different way. The show changes it because.. Egwene is a woman and a female heroine must rescue herself, a man certainly can't, she has to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I wouldn’t count Rand among them, atleast not book 1/2 rand, the show version works fine for book 3 onwards (-the sex) but book 1/2 rand is far more in denial about every thing and not as combative.
    The books don't have the sex yes, but the sex is part of what he does in the changed version of the show, not really part of who he is.

    The show didn't portray Rand well, but he feels a little bit more like Rand from the books than many of the characters, even though they deleted most of his scenes, which are the lionshare of the first book and the main part of the second book. I mean show Rand is mostly useless where book Rand wasn't, but then again, that's things hhe does, rather than his character. It's a different Rand for sure, by mere virtue of doing very different things than the book, but they seeem to have kept a little bit more of his book personality that they didn't for their friends.

  20. #4320
    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    I've known The Wheel of Time for decades but I have never read the book. The problem with this series is that doesn't make want to start reading the books, I found every "good side" character deeply stupid, unlikable and illogical in their actions and words, at this point (s02e05) I'm rooting for the bad guys Is it a problem of bad writing of the TV series or were they that stupid in the books too?
    The showrunner deliberately alienated fans of the books.
    Take that as you will. But I assure you the books are superior to the show in every way.

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