[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Man, things must change a lot as the series goes on cause I am a little over half way through book 5 and I cannot stand Nynaeve. She annoys me to no end.

Book 5 is also around where I gave up on the series the first time I tried to read it and I can feel why. So little happens, it is just people traveling. It's just keeps jumping between 3 different groups of people traveling to places. Not to mention Perrin seems to have vanished from the series completely. I have a feeling the next few books are going to be a slog. Thank goodness for audiobooks and 1.5x playback speed.

I’m halfway through book 8 on my second time through the slog is indeed coming post book 5.

The vast majority of 6-7 and the first half of 8 are just so much nothing happening or retreading stuff that was already covered and not interesting the first time through.

I remember the series picking back up around book 11 or so but god does that feel far off.

[Gumble]

I’m halfway through book 8 on my second time through the slog is indeed coming post book 5.

The vast majority of 6-7 and the first half of 8 are just so much nothing happening or retreading stuff that was already covered and not interesting the first time through.

I remember the series picking back up around book 11 or so but god does that feel far off.

I dunno man, I'm always good up through book 9. The wells, shadar logoth, and then the big event at the end of book 9. Those are all good for me.

But, as I mentioned, I love Egwene and her efforts to truly become the position she becomes I quite enjoy. I love her laughing scene and her taking charge during the attack.

But, I've read the series around 9 times, so I hope I like it.

[Dhrizzle]

I think most of Dream powers are coming from sheer faith in changing world. No logic, no One power. Just sheer will to resist influence and make things bend to you. Egwene still thinks that Dream world is something to do with one power, so she treat it logic of real world.
While Perrin is free from it.

Also I'm pretty sure that wolves have a special connection to the Dream that Wolfbrothers can use to their advantage. It's home-turf for Perrin.

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Some spoilers on why Nynaeve gets increasingly more awesome.
Nynaeve has a lot of crowning moments of awesome even early on. Using balefire untrained, defeating Moghedien, chaining her with the A'dam and then using her to save Rand, healing Loghain, breaking her block. How she manages to help Rand and how she is one of the few people he seems to trust completely (imo he only 100% trusts Min and Nynaeve). In the last few books the way she helps her husband and creates an army for him and the fact that she actually manages to heal the madness of Saidin. For me the most important parts are the healing ones; Nynaeve twice manages to heal something that people from the Age of Wonders considered impossible. Honestly the fact that in the end everyone gangs up on Cadsuane to make her Amyrlin were Nynaeve is just there, is the strongest Aes Sedai by far (and was forced through absolute hell to get there) and literally just helped saved the world next to the Dragon made little sense to me (but she would likely have declined).
But the best part about it is that she is just a good person and she is good unconditionally. Egwene's morality is to some extent tempered by her ambition and her increasing belief that she is the only person who knows what should be done which is a running theme in WoT that Egwene never really escapes (and Rand effectively transcends which I for one found a bit cheap). Nynaeve just genuinely wants to help people with no ulterior motive. Perrin is also like that but Perrin really only gets to shine in Sanderson's books (where frankly he becomes increasingly OP; by the end I wasn't even sure if Rand was stronger than Perrin given that Perrin could freely alter reality in the dream to an extent far greater than any of the Forsaken or even Egwene who was trained and it was her specialty).

My absolute favourite part is when Nynaeve accidentally heals Logain's Gentling and and is just like "oh shit did that just fucking happen!?"

[rhorle]

Also - Perrin have stronger connection and understanding the Dream, Egwene trained by amateurs, while Perrin - with pro.

It has been stated that they are pretty much equals. Perrin has a greater instinct but Egwene has raw knowledge and understanding.

[Pyrophax]

It has been stated that they are pretty much equals. Perrin has a greater instinct but Egwene has raw knowledge and understanding.

Where it was stated? When I was reading, I remember that Perrin taught Egwene about balefire, its just a weave.
She is nowhere equal to him. She cant teleport there at will, she cant bend balefire, she cant use dream like Perrin do. And what greater knowledge she poses? Only some experience of Wise ones that again were self-educated. While Perrin has knowledge of all generations of wolfes. Same with understanding, she just pretending, while Perrin is pro at that.


I think Sanderson just buff him to be his last battle so he can be cool and powerful. Same as Mat and his mist powers at last battle.
Rule of cool. And it was cool.

[Shadowferal]

Towards the end, it seemed most of the forsaken were leery around the "hunter."

[rhorle]

Where it was stated?

https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1084#61 Brandon Sanderson
I'd say that at this point, it's less a matter of who is stronger, and more a matter of what they're doing. Perrin could probably win a fight, but his raw knowledge and understanding is less—he works on instinct.

https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1025#3
I wanted to highlight Perrin's instinctive use of his powers, as a contrast to the thoughtful, learned use of power represented by Egwene. People have asked if I think Perrin is better at Tel'aran'rhiod than Egwene. I don't think he is, the balefire-bending scene notwithstanding. They represent two sides of a coin, instinct and learning. In some cases Perrin will be more capable, and in others Egwene will shine.

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Nielsen reports 531 million mins streamed for 9/18 to 9/24. That is more then the Season 2 premiere (515) so it is looking good as long as the final two episodes stay strong.

[Xath]

thanks for your passionate answer!
you made me more curious about the books with one post than the whole two seasons did...

but Lorgar Aurelian's answer still scares me
I mean, Egwene has been suffering a lot because of the collar, and what does she do? she still tries to take it off or attack her master... I hope in the books something this stupid doesn't take place

In the books she has a single stray thought about hitting her leash holder with her water dish and can't use it for days. The books actually make sense unlike the train wreck that is rafe of time.

[Mace]

Where it was stated? When I was reading, I remember that Perrin taught Egwene about balefire, its just a weave.
She is nowhere equal to him. She cant teleport there at will, she cant bend balefire, she cant use dream like Perrin do. And what greater knowledge she poses? Only some experience of Wise ones that again were self-educated. While Perrin has knowledge of all generations of wolfes. Same with understanding, she just pretending, while Perrin is pro at that.


I think Sanderson just buff him to be his last battle so he can be cool and powerful. Same as Mat and his mist powers at last battle.
Rule of cool. And it was cool.

I think Rhorle has been feedback way more distortions from the show into his memory of the books.

Perrin eventually far exceeded Egwene with the dream.

Maybe Egwene could eventually learn those things but we see Hopper able to spy even on Lanfear and he trains Perrin. Perrin is doing more in the dream if you note the description before Egwene even learns about it.

For starters he is already able to sleep himself into Telarab’rhiod before Egwene even gets the dream ter’angreal.

And by the end of the series, Perrin’s ability on the dream is phenomenal especially in the fight against Isam without which Rand would have lost.

His major value as Ta’veren, his special power via the wolves is the dream more so than merely being able to talk to wolves and have yellow eyes.


What is interesting is that Kordan doesn’t even clarify whether Perrin or Matt could learn to channel. They have sufficient powers though to not require the process. Neither of them are trained to use the void which is the first stepping stone in learning for males who have the natural ability or can learn.

I always wandered. It would a fascinating twist if both could actually learn to channel if anyone write a story following the events of the books.

The show lost all the charm of the books. You really get into the world in the books. The setting and times feel and sound so believable even down to all those wise sayings from Linni or Master Luhan or Tam or Abel Cauthon etc etc the heroes remember.

They wiped away so much good stuff. Rather than enhance it. What a waste

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So much character lost. Matt and Nynaeve are two of the best characters the way they and their personalities are written.

Ruined them. Nynaeve is some obnoxious Mary Sue that can do no wrong and Matt comes off as a low life with zero humour or character.


Utterly failed at bringing the book characters to life. But off course they did, since they re wrote them with these bland cookie cutter characters with zero charm

[rhorle]

I think Rhorle has been feedback way more distortions from the show into his memory of the books.

You can disagree with the words of an author of the book. Just say so. There is no reason to claim I'm distorting the books though.

The Ta'veren power Perrin has is need. That is one of the things that makes him stronger in the dream. The ability to draw whatever he needs to him. Perrin being a wolf brother is a trait of his soul. It isn't because he is Ta'veren which is fleeting and only happens when the pattern needs one.

[Mace]

You can disagree with the words of an author of the book. Just say so. There is no reason to claim I'm distorting the books though.

The Ta'veren power Perrin has is need. That is one of the things that makes him stronger in the dream. The ability to draw whatever he needs to him. Perrin being a wolf brother is a trait of his soul. It isn't because he is Ta'veren which is fleeting and only happens when the pattern needs one.

Jordan is the author, not Sanderson, Sanderson is giving his opinion. Perrin at the time of the last battle is head and shoulders above Egwene for the use of the dream.

I just can't see anyone being better.. Isam out Tel'aran rhiod's LAnfear, and Perrin bests him in the dream by the end... sorry, Egwene is good witht he dream, but he ends up above her.

[rhorle]

Jordan is the author, not Sanderson, Sanderson is giving his opinion. Perrin at the time of the last battle is head and shoulders above Egwene for the use of the dream.

So you don't consider the last three or four books to be official then? Mr. Sanderson is as much an author of Wheel of Time as Mr. Jordan is. I'd trust someone that has access to all the notes and supplemental information over a random forum goer. Wouldn't you?

[Mace]

So you don't consider the last three or four books to be official then? Mr. Sanderson is as much an author of Wheel of Time as Mr. Jordan is. I'd trust someone that has access to all the notes and supplemental information over a random forum goer. Wouldn't you?

lol.. do you even understand what Sanderson did? he didn't invent the lore or write the abilities of the characters, he completed Jordan's work, fleshing out the story from the notes Jordan gave him. His work is canon, but he didn't write the story. Jordan did. This is why he can only give an opinion.

if we argue about a characters strengths, and you can't correctly discern from the book, Jordan is the only one who has the authority to confirm this. Th

[rhorle]

lol.. do you even understand what Sanderson did? he didn't invent the lore or write the abilities of the characters, he completed Jordan's work, fleshing out the story from the notes Jordan gave him. His work is canon, but he didn't write the story.

So he completed the work but didn't write the stuff he completed? Lmao.

if we argue about a characters strengths, and you can't correctly discern from the book, Jordan is the only one who has the authority to confirm this. Th

So the notes Mr. Sanderson has can't tell him if characters have equal strength?

[Rennadrel]

I think Rhorle has been feedback way more distortions from the show into his memory of the books.

I'm willing to bet he's never even read the books. He is continually an apologist for piss poor adaptations that entirely misrepresent the characters as they were written by their authors, whether it be WoT or even that tire fire Rings of Power show.

[Gumble]

I'm willing to bet he's never even read the books. He is continually an apologist for piss poor adaptations that entirely misrepresent the characters as they were written by their authors, whether it be WoT or even that tire fire Rings of Power show.

I'm amazed you all still respond to that troll. Doesn't 90% of the forums have him on ignore?

He is one of many of the "support current thing" and yell obscenities at people who don't "support current thing".

I see some of his nonsense when you all quote him, nothing has changed. Don't fight in the mud with a pig, you both get dirty, but only the pig likes it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Ruined them. Nynaeve is some obnoxious Mary Sue that can do no wrong

Are you talking about book or show Nynave here because she’s way less of a Mary Sue in the show where she, isn’t the one who channels them to freedom when they first meet the Seanchan, doesn’t figure out how to open an A'dam out of no where, her plan to free Egwene fails, can’t heal Elyane, gets that one Aes Sedai captured and her warder killed by not being about to control her channeling, ect.

If any thing they took what is effectively a Mary Sue in the books and turned it on its head making her overly useless.

[Mace]

Are you talking about book or show Nynave here because she’s way less of a Mary Sue in the show where she, isn’t the one who channels them to freedom when they first meet the Seanchan, doesn’t figure out how to open an A'dam out of no where, her plan to free Egwene fails, can’t heal Elyane, gets that one Aes Sedai captured and her warder killed by not being about to control her channeling, ect.

If any thing they took what is effectively a Mary Sue in the books and turned it on its head making her overly useless.

They didn't change her from the books, they changed her from season 1. She was never a mary sue in the books. She has lots of flaws, and while powerful, her power levels aren't inflated, like they are in the show

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So he completed the work but didn't write the stuff he completed? Lmao.



So the notes Mr. Sanderson has can't tell him if characters have equal strength?

Consider this, if they did say such a thing, why does he use language that expresses opinion rather than fact? Think about that.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They didn't change her from the books, they changed her from season 1. She was never a mary sue in the books. She has lots of flaws, and while powerful, her power levels aren't inflated, like they are in the show

Well she is changed from The books because she fails at like every thing unlike in the second book where every thing works out for her.

But your right she is toned down compared to the first season where they give her random feats for no real reason.

[rhorle]

Consider this, if they did say such a thing, why does he use language that expresses opinion rather than fact? Think about that.

He doesn't just speak from personal opinion though. He directly talks about how and why he wrote scenes for Perrin a certain way. That is speaking as the author rather then a fan. One of the quotes I provided comes from his retrospective series about taking over for Mr. Jordan and the books he wrote.

https://www.brandonsanderson.com/tag...retrospective/