[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Mazza]

But the thing is...they stopped watching when they realized they didn't like it. That's fine. It's very rational to stop watching a show that you do not like.

But continuing to watch a show in it's 3rd season that you have hated from the beginning is not rational.

I try to give any 8 episode seaon I start the benefit of the doubt until I have seen the entire season. If they managed to nail a good ending on season 1 I prob would have seen season 2 and 3. While I'd say that personally most episodes were around 5-6/10 (some a tad higher some a tad lower) to me, S1E8 made me abandon the show. Like, while I might not be happy about the amount of changes they pulled, up to that point the show was still mildly entertaining fantasy. S1E8 was a fucking disaster episode though. It made me drop the show entirely. Now, I did learn afterwards that the showrunners could not entirely do what they wanted with the episode because of Covid and ok, that's fair... but still, that last episode is imo one of the worst capstones on a season I have ever watched. So I stopped watching.

Recently I was told that season 2 was quite a bit better than season 1 and that season 3 was again quite a bit better than season 2, so I might pick it up again at some point. For now I have other stuff to watch.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I try to give any 8 episode seaon I start the benefit of the doubt until I have seen the entire season. If they managed to nail a good ending on season 1 I prob would have seen season 2 and 3. While I'd say that personally most episodes were around 5-6/10 (some a tad higher some a tad lower) to me, S1E8 made me abandon the show. Like, while I might not be happy about the amount of changes they pulled, up to that point the show was still mildly entertaining fantasy. S1E8 was a fucking disaster episode though. It made me drop the show entirely. Now, I did learn afterwards that the showrunners could not entirely do what they wanted with the episode because of Covid and ok, that's fair... but still, that last episode is imo one of the worst capstones on a season I have ever watched. So I stopped watching.

Recently I was told that season 2 was quite a bit better than season 1 and that season 3 was again quite a bit better than season 2, so I might pick it up again at some point. For now I have other stuff to watch.

And, again, as I said...that's all fine. You stopped watching a show that you did not like. I also abandoned the show in the first season.

I am not talking about you or me here.

I am talking about the people that continue to watch the show that they hate three seasons in. As you said...there are other things to watch. Perhaps they should go find something they actually enjoy.

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Sadly it is really fucking hard to convince people to read a 14 book series were the average book length is like 800 pages, even if they get a much better story, with more fleshed out and realistic characters, a world you can live in and a system of magic that is deep and nuanced.

Especially hard when you get to around book 8 and the pace slows to a god damn crawl. I gave up after like book 9 or 10 I think. It was quite clear to me that Jordan knew how the story was going to end...but he couldn't figure out how to get there. If he were still alive he'd probably still be writing it.

[rhorle]

The issue is so many people are getting a worse product for no other reason that Rafe is a ...

Or you are just using him as a scapegoat because you can't cope that adaptations are not always faithful. Wheel of Time would be hard story to adapt and stay very faithful to the books. There is a lot to cover and little time to do it. It also might not make for good television.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I’ve washed my hands of the show and the series in general after my second reread around the time of the second season, but honestly ya it kinda sucks that they change so much from the first 4 books as the series only gets much much worse from there on (other then book 9 or 10), and so hitting the high points before diverging greatly for those later books would have been nice.

[Frogguh]

Or you are just using him as a scapegoat because you can't cope that adaptations are not always faithful. Wheel of Time would be hard story to adapt and stay very faithful to the books. There is a lot to cover and little time to do it. It also might not make for good television.

But it's not simply about changes to fit TV. He makes unforced errors that damage the world building or, at best, are just silly.

For example, Lews Therin is referred to as the Dragon Reborn, which is ridiculous - he's the Dragon, not the Dragon Reborn.

Moiraine proclaims Rand the Dragon Reborn by channeling a big fire dragon around him. Given that any channeler could do that for anyone, literally anyone could be proclaimed the Dragon Reborn. The Pattern itself is supposed to proclaim him so there can't be any doubt.

Moiraine says she hears rumors of four ta'veren in the Two Rivers (why four and not three or five is a mystery). That isn't how ta'veren works, particularly with such a low population to influence. The only way you could have such a rumor is if someone with the Talent to see ta'veren had reported such, but the show didn't say that so it's just a goof.

The Dragon Reborn couldn't be a woman, plain and simple. That was just bad writing.

Those bend or break the lore. Then there are other things that are more minor but still bad writing, particularly when the book does it right. In the books Nynaeve makes her interest to Lan known, and he rejects her because he is bound to Moiraine and sworn to fight the Shadow both as a Warder and to avenge Malkier. He doesn't want to leave her a widow with nothing to show for it, so he turns her down and then says he will hate the man she chooses but will love him if he makes her smile.

In the show Lan bangs her then makes that same speech, so just wham bam thank you ma'am, no I'm not gonna be your man. Douchebag move due to this unforced writing error.

All of these, and many more, could have been avoided.

[rhorle]

The Dragon Reborn couldn't be a woman, plain and simple. That was just bad writing.

The show is working off the concept of the Champion of the Light. While the Dragon Reborn will always be a male (and the same soul) there exists a female counterpart that will be the champion of the light when the Dragon Reborn doesn't exist in a turning of the wheel. The show just combines Champion of the Light and Dragon to mean the same thing. It doesn't change much about the fictional universal because it just condenses two equal concepts.

Ta'veren change the probability of stuff happening. Ishamael and Lanfear know ways to track them based on their effects on the pattern. People that know about them can make educated guesses based on how events unfold. In the turning the show takes place in Moiraine easily could have heard rumors from the Two Rivers without changing much from the books.

Many changes have to happen to fit the format. Some work better than others as the reception of Season 3 shows.

[molliewoof]

I left after the first series, just didn't get my attention. Maybe the start of the second series, are they cleaners in a school or something.

With things like this it'd be easier if they just split the universes, say there are 2 canons so book people dont get too annoyed about something they love changing, I'd probably be the same tbh,

[rhorle]

With things like this it'd be easier if they just split the universes, say there are 2 canons so book people dont get too annoyed about something they love changing, I'd probably be the same tbh,

We may have said 1000 times that this is not a 1-for-1 adaptation and another turning of the Wheel. It simply is. I hope that you still enjoy though, or that if you don’t, you can go back to the books and read again. They make for a great re-read.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/television/...mment/hlx9wem/
Easier to see all of the ama https://www.wotseries.com/2021/11/24...-rafe-judkins/

That is from a Reddit AMA Rafe did near the release of Season 1. Even if the show didn't explicitly state it a personal decision can be made to treat it that way. It's not like this is the first time that people would have to do this for an adaptation.

[ItsRainingMetal]

You can hate the series for not being faithful to the material or you can simply not care for it, but it does seem to be successful. Maybe it's not doing it for you but it is doing decent. Don't be a hater just to hate, it ain't healthy.

Tbh I'm just bashing it a bit for the fun of it. I loved the books and just want the show to do better, because it can do much better.

I think it's the best book series I have read and enjoyed pretty much all of it, with only the first book from Sanderson really scaring me. I suppose someone who didn't read the book may see the show in a very different light.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

With things like this it'd be easier if they just split the universes, say there are 2 canons so book people dont get too annoyed about something they love changing, I'd probably be the same tbh,

I mean...that's already a given. There will always be changes in any adaptation. Things that are canon in one version may not be in another.

[Syegfryed]

With things like this it'd be easier if they just split the universes, say there are 2 canons so book people dont get too annoyed about something they love changing, I'd probably be the same tbh,

Or he could just create his own story with his own characters and just steal what he want from the books, like he is basically doing. Just change characters and places names he is set.

[rhorle]

Or he could just create his own story with his own characters and just steal what he want from the books, like he is basically doing. Just change characters and places names he is set.

They, Amazon and Sony, did create their own story based on The Wheel of Time.

[molliewoof]

I mean...that's already a given. There will always be changes in any adaptation. Things that are canon in one version may not be in another.

It isn't already given or people wouldn't get so angry about shows destroying lore etc, this and the lotr thread are basically that.

Rhorle already put a quote in of them saying exactly that anyway so it's an invalid point as it already hadn't worked.

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Or he could just create his own story with his own characters and just steal what he want from the books, like he is basically doing. Just change characters and places names he is set.

Agreed but that won't happen, they like established crowds for numbers

Update- I misread that sorry. He is already doing that and people really didn't like it

[Nymrohd]

You could also tell a different story in the same world. Tell a story during the Trolloc Wars or a story AFTER the books.

[Syegfryed]

Agreed but that won't happen, they like established crowds for numbers

Update- I misread that sorry. He is already doing that and people really didn't like it

Yeah, cause he didn't change the names, he still pretend he is adapting the books.

But, the new stuff he wrote is also shit, so you dont please the fans and most rest who are not fans dont like/care either. It is surprising it lasted this long tbh

[rhorle]

Yeah, cause he didn't change the names, he still pretend he is adapting the books.

They are adapting the books. An adaptation only requires themes of the original story to be retained. Many consider The Lion King 2 an adaptation, or at least heavily influenced by, Romeo and Juilet. The shows Elementary and Watson adapt Sherlock Holmes characters.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

It isn't already given or people wouldn't get so angry about shows destroying lore etc, this and the lotr thread are basically that.

It is a given. People just always complain about changes.

[VMSmith]

My wife and I have never read the books and are only passingly familiar with the series (meaning, we were aware of its existence). We just started watching it this week and will be watching the season one finale tonight. We are thoroughly enjoying the show. It was a bit confusing at first, especially with all the names, but the more we've watched it, the more we dig it.

[Gumble]

Or he could just create his own story with his own characters and just steal what he want from the books, like he is basically doing. Just change characters and places names he is set.

As I'm rereading the series and coming to the end of book 2, I decided to look into what they did with Egwene and the Seanchan..... no shock, Rafe messed it up and turned an epic ending at Falme into a joke.

The irony is this show could have worked, even with the changes, if Rafe had been a better writer or at all not an arrogant joke. The story gives them the perfect excuse to "make changes" because portal worlds exist and they could have said "this is a similar world to WoT, or a different way the Wheel could have turned"..... anything to say "this is not THE story but a SIMILAR story" and people probably would have accepted it.

Instead, Rafe said flat out "I'm making changes because I want to ruin fans' experience of this and make it about ME".

That turned off fans, they turned off regular viewers, and the changes they made that turned the story into a mess has turned off the rest. There is a good reason why the show is incredibly poorly watched.


They could have done a good job, the CGI is passbale (which was a big thing holding back making a WOT show), but Rafe was absolutely the worst possible choice Amazon could have made and it has led to a failure of a show that nobody watches.

Maybe someone will do a good job of it in another decade or two. Heck, give it 5-10 years and AI could probably do a good job.






Oh, and I absolutely find it HILARIOUS that not only did they cast an incredibly boring and older looking woman to be Mierin, but I love that they made Moiraine take Verin's place and make pacts with the Forsaken. Guess they never bothered to read the whole story to find out about Verin.

Oops.

[ItsRainingMetal]

Oh, and I absolutely find it HILARIOUS that not only did they cast an incredibly boring and older looking woman to be Mierin, but I love that they made Moiraine take Verin's place and make pacts with the Forsaken. Guess they never bothered to read the whole story to find out about Verin.

Oops.

True. Moiraine is an absolute mess in the show