[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Xath]

Branden Sanderson is credited as being a producer. The show runner has already said that when Branden tells him things he figures he should listen but that there have been times where he said Sanderson says something is not going to work and they just have to agree to disagree and does what he wants because the show will be better for it.

Which is another reason this dip should have never been entrusted with wheel.

[Triceron]

Which is another reason this dip should have never been entrusted with wheel.

Adaptations are adaptations. Those who only view it as it being a direct translation will keep that wheel of ignorance turning.

It's never going to be like the book, no matter how hard they try. At best you could have is a glorified audiobook with real actors portraying the characters, but that's it.

[Shadowferal]

Review: This ‘Wheel of Time’ Goes Nowhere Fast

Amazon’s ambitious fantasy adaptation is bursting with magic and monsters, but it’s no heir to the “Thrones.”

[Frogguh]

So I decided to treat this series like Dragon Ball, with the manga and anime telling the same basic story but in different ways. That way I can judge the series on its own merit, rather than simply based on changes from the books.

Right out of the gate, implying that the Dragon could be a woman is a big problem for lore down the road. On the surface it works as a mystery device to cloud who the Dragon is for new viewers, but the possibility of a female Dragon minimizes the danger the Dragon represents. It's not simply as a herald of the Last Battle that people fear the Dragon - he broke the world and can do it again with his rebirth, because Saidin is tainted and only men use Saidin.

I see no real reason to make Egwene a ta'veren, though Moiraine allows for the possibility that she could be in the book. Since it will likely have no impact on her character arc, just seems like a progressive move rather than a story improvement.

The changes to Perrin and Mat's backstories works for me in order to distinguish their character mindsets from Rand's. Perrin's aversion to violence and struggle with the savagery of the wolf, Mat's hardened ways masking a good man underneath, and so on. Not to mention a certain theory about Perrin's wife that I'm interested to see play out if it turns out to be true.

Rather than emphasizing male nudity, I'd prefer they simply remove nudity entirely. I frankly don't want to see Lan's hairless butt.

In the conversation between Nynaeve and Moiraine, it is implied that Nynaeve is already aware that "listening to the wind" involves the One Power, as she relates the story of her mentor traveling to the Tower and getting rejected for being a poor wilder. If she isn't aware of that connection despite knowing her mentor went to the Tower, then she's an idiot. But if she does know, then that screws with the story of her block in using the Power. I didn't think that was a good move.

Tam being defeated by a single Trolloc was a huge disservice to his character, unless the sword he used was not heron marked. Perhaps the show won't use the heron mark blade as a plot point.

Moiraine telling them in Emond's Field that one of them is the Dragon Reborn is not well done, I think. Their low-key reactions, the strongest being Mat telling her she's gone off her rocker, does nothing to show the fear of the Dragon that is supposed to exist. Had she annouced that from the beginning in the book, they'd have likely refused to accompany her.

The Whitecloaks burn an Aes Sedai at the stake. Her hands are cut off and she is not using the power to escape. I'm hoping they don't require hands to use the Power in this adaptation, and instead ambushed her and doused her with that forkroot tea that inhibits channeling. Hand motions being required to channel would be disappointing, to say the least. Also, there is no way even the most well-adjusted Whitecloak would recommend someone go to the Aes Sedai for healing, unless this version of the Children is far less zealous and only the Questioners are rabid.

The introduction of the Traveling People is very creepy, which is pretty ridiculous once their life philosophy is revealed. They would never emerge all around someone in a fog and stare blankly at them simply because they don't know the proper response to whether they know the song.

All of that said, I like most of the cast so far, with Egwene, Mat, and Thom being particular highlights. I'm especially pleased that Egwene is likable, since I despised her book character. I thought depictions of the villains - the Trollocs, Fades, and darkfriends - were well done, and the dream sequences were appropriately jarring, though I'm not yet convinced on the physical depiction of Ba'alzamon. They are staying largely true to the essence of the story, with only their desire to appease the pro-transgender Twitter mob being a looming problem for the series down the road.

I'm largely pleased with the series, and I say this as a huge fan of the books, only liking the Malazan series more.

[Witchblade77]

excuse me, I just puked in my mouth a little.

I am so.

tired

of every

fantasy

series

adaptation

being compared

to game of thrones.
FFS

that said.. full disclosure. I haven't read the books, but I did go wiki browsing a LOT. overall, I liked the series for what it is, but I know intimately understand how people who haven't read Witcher books must have felt watching the show.

there is a lot that is happening where watchers knowledge of the background just seems to be... assuming. they are trying to practically gallop through world building and character introductions and I'll be honest, I had trouble remembering who what why how, let alone realizing what was foreshadowing and what was just nifty little details without supplementary reading.

it seems to me like series created by fans, for fans. which is not inherently a bad thing. and its nice to have another fantasy series that is not trying to distance itself from being fantasy, and instead leans into it.

[Theangryone]

Tam’s sword was Herron marked, they expressly showed it to be so

[Log Cabin]

I expected very little and got even less... I find it mildly amusing when the main characters got the number of Ta'veren wrong consistently swapping from 3 to 4 depending on the episode.

I listened to the audio books a few months prior and to be honest I struggled to identify what character was what... the show does nothing to introduce them or explain what their roles are in this world.

- - - Updated - - -

excuse me, I just puked in my mouth a little.

I am so.

tired

of every

fantasy

series

adaptation

being compared

to game of thrones.
FFS

that said.. full disclosure. I haven't read the books, but I did go wiki browsing a LOT. overall, I liked the series for what it is, but I know intimately understand how people who haven't read Witcher books must have felt watching the show.

there is a lot that is happening where watchers knowledge of the background just seems to be... assuming. they are trying to practically gallop through world building and character introductions and I'll be honest, I had trouble remembering who what why how, let alone realizing what was foreshadowing and what was just nifty little details without supplementary reading.

it seems to me like series created by fans, for fans. which is not inherently a bad thing. and its nice to have another fantasy series that is not trying to distance itself from being fantasy, and instead leans into it.

They actively rewrote a lot of characters and factions. Having read the books really doesn't give you much of an edge. Everyone is acting differently. My moment of giving up was when they just rewrote the white cloaks... they were the simplest group to understand and they messed even them up.

[Corvus]

excuse me, I just puked in my mouth a little.

I am so.

tired

of every

fantasy

series

adaptation

being compared

to game of thrones.
FFS.

Blame Bezos for that. He got insanely jealous of GoT's success and wanted his own GoT. The fact the person bankrolling the whole thing said that sort of means the comparison is inevitable.

[Shadowferal]

it seems to me like series created by fans, for fans.

You have that so very wrong.
----
The Wheel of Time review – Jeff Bezos’s Game of Thrones is destined to be forgotten
-----
Amazon Prime's sprawling new magic and monsters fantasy is an epic misfire
-----
Amazon’s ‘The Wheel of Time’ Review: A Fantasy Epic That’s Just Spinning Its Wheels

[Biomega]

Blame Bezos for that. He got insanely jealous of GoT's success and wanted his own GoT.

He's not the only one, and who WOULDN'T want a success like that.

Except of course they all think you can just take some of the things they thought were "big sellers" in GoT, slap them on any ol' recognizable title, and manufacture a hit. But blood & boobs alone a good series does not make.

[Witchblade77]

my view on "for fans by fans" was based on reviews by youtubers who at one point specialized in analyzing wheel of time books, not articles in review magazines. and its not Jeff Besos that is comparing the series to GoT in reviews. its every goddam reviewer for various publications whose only exposure to fantasy prior is GoT and possibly LoTR and even then, only because of their adaptations.

they did IMO have done no the best of jobs introducing the characters, at least for someone new to the books, but once I had names attached to faces to wiki articles, it was much easier for me to keep up.

i do realize that they changed some backgrounds and such, but overall, it still follows general plot beats.

(as far as Tam, I got an impression of someone who definitely knew HOW to fight, but was rusty and older)

[Shadowferal]

At $10mil per episode I really don't see this going much further than a 2nd season.

[Beloren]

So far i know the books and series have their differences and if you want to go into detail about that series you will have to find another thread and person to be honest.
Staying true to the books do not make a series better due to it, neither does it make it worse. It does allow for more freedom and better adaptation of the material, so long the big lines remain the same i see no harm done.

So yes i stand by my point that not using the hardcore fans of a franchise as the benchmark for your adaptation being it a movie, series or game is a good move. I do not feel the fans are entitled to anything, and i find that sense of entitlement to be really misplaced however the internet is full of armchair experts so it is to be expected

Agreed, but question is does the series do a better job?

In the LotR film, i thought it did for the film medium - you couldn't tell it exactly as the book but the way they did it did it just and it was more enjoyable in the film medium and as such an improvement on the book in that respect,

While in the book medium the original book si still hand down better, if you were to write the films in book format, they would pale in comparison to the actual book.

Shift to the Wheel of Time, this adaptation could have been really good and better than the book , but it isn't in my opinion.

It is still enjoyable a watch for me anyway, but I feel the book had so many little treasures that the changes actually have removed. it really isn't as charming to me as the book was...but it' stylish and ahs it's own pace.

[Mazza]

There is no explanation at all in the show so far as to WHY the world got broken in the first place... The one power doesn't even seem to be split in a male and female stream (so far at least, have seen the first 3 episodes) If they are skipping that though, why do men even go mad when they use it? Just because? This makes no sense whatsoever!

edit: I do have read the books and while I understand an series adaptation has to change some things because it is another medium the above is rather key to the world that RJ built.

[Xath]

Adaptations are adaptations. Those who only view it as it being a direct translation will keep that wheel of ignorance turning.

It's never going to be like the book, no matter how hard they try. At best you could have is a glorified audiobook with real actors portraying the characters, but that's it.

It could be a lot more similar to the books and then it wouldn't have fans checking out in droves it doesn't sound like their changes are making it popular with mainstream either judging by critic reviews.

[Daedius]

Just watched the first episode;

The acting is terrible... and for a small 'hidden' village they sure threw in as many ethnic representations as they could, especially in that scene when the girl was undergoing a ritual at the river... lol. Granted I've never read the novels though.

[oplawlz]

Adaptations are adaptations. Those who only view it as it being a direct translation will keep that wheel of ignorance turning.

It's never going to be like the book, no matter how hard they try. At best you could have is a glorified audiobook with real actors portraying the characters, but that's it.

Again, you are completely ignoring the successful adaptations with this argument. Some changes in pacing etc need to be done, but if you don't respect the source material, which was written by someone infinitely more talented than whoever does the tinkering, you're going to have a bad time.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

After finishing the first few episodes my option comes down to being an fine fantasy show but not a very good wheel of time show so far.

I’ll likely keep watching it as it goes along if for no other reason to talk with my friends about the needless changes which mostly subtract from what wheel of time was.

[Triceron]

Again, you are completely ignoring the successful adaptations with this argument. Some changes in pacing etc need to be done, but if you don't respect the source material, which was written by someone infinitely more talented than whoever does the tinkering, you're going to have a bad time.

Successful tv adaptations are few and far between. If we were to use that as a gauge then literally we circle back to every review comparing this to GoT and LoTR and brushing this off as another failed fantasy series. That's pretty much all that needs to be said.

The show has some pretty big pacing and world/character building issues, and that's probably the biggest factor against it, over all the coherency issues to the book.

[Smallfruitbat]

I wanted this to do well. I wanted my friends who watch it to have the same enjoyment as I did reading the books. Episode 1 looked like just another fantasy series with a big set piece at the end. I think that is going to put a lot of people off. Introducing the wolves without Elyas made it look to me that they were trying to rip off Game of Thrones (and I know why they are there).

The real elephant in the room is the tone. The first 3 scenes of episode one (and beyond) can be summed up as 'men bad, women good.' The hatchet job they did on Abel Cauthons character was unnecessary, for those who didn't read the books he was a real pillar of the community. An overarching theme in the series is that men and women have different strengths and abilities and need to work together in order to get stuff done. Overall, aging up the characters and then putting in back stories is a misfire in my opinion. Having them act selfish etc. worked in the book because they were little more than kids from a remote village who had lived a pretty idyllic life. I hope it's just jitters from the beginning of the series and they explain some of the big concepts but I have very little faith at the moment.