1. #1121
    Immortal Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Episode 5 spoilers!

    Okay, so i had a problem in the start of the show, but i was not sure if it would be a long term problem, but now.... with episode 5, its clear that it will continue - Why the hell are the Aes Sedai and their warders so unprofessional? They are supposed to be agents, professional killers and people who are used to live on the edge of life and death. Then why the hell are they so laid back, emotional and so unprepared for death??

    I get that losing friends is hard, but Lan should have experienced many deaths in his time, especially that of his warder colleagues. The hard and seasoned warrior attitude of Lan and the agents of Tar Valon is completly gone... I feel like some of what was cool about them, that they took the threat serious and knew that much would be lost in the battle, is completly gone.

    And suicide..Aren't the warders suppose to be charging towards the blight or death? Suicide seems like the last thing they would do, when there already is so many ways to die in an honorable way.
    Last edited by Flurryfang; 2021-12-03 at 11:13 AM.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  2. #1122
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Because this isn't wheel this rafe presents a bastardization of wheel
    Remember, this isn't Book WoT, this is Series WoT - different universe!

    Which is why it isn't Book Good, it's Series Shit ¬_¬

  3. #1123
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    It's strange to have a vested interest in a bedrock element of the series remaining the same? Souls are reborn throughout the age into bodies that match they become bound to the wheel. Rafe has basically said that doesn't exist which is bedrock breaking. The Yin and Yang nature of the one power is also incredibly important.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Stop putting down LoTR and the Hobbit as though they are the same type of adapt. LoTR especially the extended editions is relatively faithful to the original books the hobbit has massive sideplots added on to pad it into three movies. Even then the Hobbit is so more faithful to it's source material than this show has been so far.
    Triceron has been writing the same stuff for the past 20 pages, it's all just some sort of relativism thing and won't address the fact that most people here view the changes to WoT as fundamentally more story shifting than Lotr.

  4. #1124
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    Ishamael cares about the metaphysics involving the struggle between Light and Dark. He wants to kill the Dragon himself, but unlike Sammael and Demandred who are just salty at Lews Therin (and consequently Rand too), Ishamael wants the great conflict of Light battling the Dark to take place, and he wants to act as the champion of the Dark. .
    Yeah. This is actually a hugely important part of almost the entire series, and especially when you get into what motivates Ishmael specifically during the current iteration of the Wheel's Turning. It is heavily implied in the books that Ishmael has actually managed to see "behind the curtain" so to speak (possibly that being trapped in the Dark One's Prison for a couple millennia may have actually caused his thread to become slightly unstuck from the pattern), and has somehow managed to carry knowledge of that glimpse into the void into his current resurrection. His ENTIRE existence at this point is actually dedicated to trying to ensure the Dark One actually DEFINITIVELY wins the final battle and actually BREAKS the Wheel utterly, because Ishmael has become personally tired of being used as the Black King vs the White King in an eternally resetting game of chess in the war between Light and Dark. He basically just wants it to END. To finally be "over" so he can be freed from the Wheel.

  5. #1125
    Immortal Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Yeah. This is actually a hugely important part of almost the entire series, and especially when you get into what motivates Ishmael specifically during the current iteration of the Wheel's Turning. It is heavily implied in the books that Ishmael has actually managed to see "behind the curtain" so to speak (possibly that being trapped in the Dark One's Prison for a couple millennia may have actually caused his thread to become slightly unstuck from the pattern), and has somehow managed to carry knowledge of that glimpse into the void into his current resurrection. His ENTIRE existence at this point is actually dedicated to trying to ensure the Dark One actually DEFINITIVELY wins the final battle and actually BREAKS the Wheel utterly, because Ishmael has become personally tired of being used as the Black King vs the White King in an eternally resetting game of chess in the war between Light and Dark. He basically just wants it to END. To finally be "over" so he can be freed from the Wheel.
    This is what is awesome about his book character, that he plays into the idea of the wheel and the repetition, that he is and will always be to the counter to the Dragon and that he is so tired of it, to never win or lose, stuck in the same pattern.

    I don't see that being put into the show though xD It would be very surprising if they used the time to explore that part of the story.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  6. #1126
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Within the scope of the story, war and economic strife do unseat people from their homelands and eventually you start to see that ethnic homogenization of countries start to shift as a result of events in the world, especially in the Two Rivers where they get people in from Toman Head and Falme after the events involving Rand and the Seanchan in that area.
    While this is true, you also have to remember that the world had been fairly stable for a fairly long time before the book kicks off and literally jumpstarts the second coming of the apocalypse within a matter of months.

    Like, remember, the Two Rivers was such a sleepy backwater that it hadn't seen a Tax Collector from the nation that nominally controlled it in several Generations. Most of the people who lived there were barely even aware that they were technically citizens of Andor.

    The last major war was the Aiel War, which wasn't really a "war" but was more like a Vendetta Raid as far as the Aiel were concerned: They weren't there to capture territory or displace people. They were literally there to punish someone for a sleight to their honor and then leave.

    There hadn't been much in the way of actual country shift for god knows how long. At the very least the last "major" event of that type would probably be the collapse of Artur Hawkwing's empire, which is easily nearly 1000 years before before the books started, and that mostly just results in the "fracturing" of the empire into most of the current countries and city-states, not something that would trigger widespread population migrations or dispersion. Other than that, the only other thing going on that might push people out of their regular territories would maybe be the slow creeping expansion of the Blight around the edges.

    So basically, unless I missed something major, its probably been about almost 800 years since there was any large event on the continent that would have driven population shuffling, which leaves most stuff down to just trade and generic travel to spread diversity around. 800 years is a LONG time for areas to "homogenize" if their ain't much in the way of large amounts of immigration / emigration to keep diversity going, especially sleepy, geographically isolated areas like backwater Two Rivers.
    Last edited by Surfd; 2021-12-03 at 01:17 PM.

  7. #1127
    Well ep 5 was fuckin' sick. Everyone's kicking off except our boy Rand.

  8. #1128
    Rafe & co. seem to have deliberately dismissed Lan's history. He's been fighting the Shadow for decades. Lord of the Seven Towers, uncrowned king of Malkier, trained at the sword ever since he could hold one. So skilled he even killed two fades at once. Malkieri, alike Shienarans, keep emotions in check when in public. (Husband and wife won't even hold hands)

    Reading what went down, it seems they don't care to have the characterizations that made the characters...at all.

  9. #1129
    Mechagnome Mazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Well ep 5 was fuckin' sick. Everyone's kicking off except our boy Rand.
    Odd. I felt this episode was terrible, potentially even the weakest of all of them. The people running this show are making some really daft choices on what they are using their very limited screentime (8 episodes for EotW is damn short) for when it comes to progressing the story. Some might disagree, but the ENTIRE bit of the widowed warder is in there to attempt get some easy feels from the audience but to the story IT IS IRRELEVANT.Things mattering in this episode: Egwene and Perryn with the children of the light and basically everybody making it to Tar Valon, Rhand meeting an Ogier and reuniting with Nynaeve, that's it. Half of this episode is fluff that does not belong in a show that only has a very limited time to tell it's story. As a result, the actual story elements feel rushed as hell. IMO, this is the weakest episode so far.
    Last edited by Mazza; 2021-12-03 at 01:21 PM.

  10. #1130
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazza View Post
    Odd. I felt this episode was terrible, potentially even the weakest of all of them. The people running this show are making some really daft choices on what they are using their very limited screentime (8 episodes for EotW is damn short) for when it comes to progressing the story. Some might disagree, but the ENTIRE bit of the widowed warder is in there to attempt get some easy feels from the audience but to the story IT IS IRRELEVANT.Things mattering in this episode: Egwene and Perryn with the children of the light and basically everybody making it to Tar Valon, Rhand meeting an Ogier and reuniting with Nynaeve, that's it. Half of this episode is fluff that does not belong in a show that only has a very limited time to tell it's story. As a result, the actual story elements feel rushed as hell. IMO, this is the weakest episode so far.
    I don't think some exposition on the warder bond is irrelevant, it's actually really important to the story later on.

  11. #1131
    Bloodsail Admiral Smallfruitbat's Avatar
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    So, Loial's actor absolutely killed it! Whoever designed Loial, what the hell were they thinking? He looks like Vincent from the 1980s beauty and the beast. The wolf attack was just a bit meh. They didn't look in the slightest bit dangerous.

    The whole Steppin thing -that was just eating up valuable screen time.

    I like them setting up the Siuan/Moiraine enmity, and the whole tower politics thing. I'll be gutted if we don't get a Siuan/Moiraine kiss. Though given the opportunities they've squandered, they'll probably skip it I'm guessing that Elaida is being axed in favour of Liandrin. again a shame if they do. I'd call you a dark friend but even the dark one would be embarrassed by you is a real favourite moment

  12. #1132
    Mechagnome Mazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    I don't think some exposition on the warder bond is irrelevant, it's actually really important to the story later on.
    I don't mean they could not have done anything about it but 1) they already did last episode and 2) it felt like they spent half the episode on it. Again, considering how little screen time they get to tell the story that time could be better spent on the actual telling of said story. Because of the focus on it this episode they had to rush other parts that are far MORE relevant and the episode suffers for it.

  13. #1133
    I think they removed Elaida. Moraine is enemy of Siuan who is strongest? LOIAL is bit big? 5 episode in and Rand has received as much screen time as Stephin.

    They either wrote of the fact that Aiel won't use a sword or they will just pretend Loial didn't know.

    Where is this show going? I have zero clue at this point. This is now like how MCU portrays Thor vs one from Norse stories. It won't shock me now if Rand is not declared DR.

    I mean to think that 4 feet from WT, White cloaks are grabbing people. Like zero thought has been put into logic of show. Just add one scene here, one there. Sigh.

  14. #1134
    I suspect that you're not going to get much of Caemlyn..if all this season. Which is messed up.
    Caemlyn introduced Rand to basic politics, sets up a love interest and is the first time we saw Logain in the books.

    Or maybe Rafe &co. will continue their haphazardly re-creation and dwelling on non-relevant moments and then rush through other scenes that are remotely connected to Caemlyn giving you a glimpse of Morgase, Elayne, et al...

  15. #1135
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazza View Post
    I don't mean they could not have done anything about it but 1) they already did last episode and 2) it felt like they spent half the episode on it. Again, considering how little screen time they get to tell the story that time could be better spent on the actual telling of said story. Because of the focus on it this episode they had to rush other parts that are far MORE relevant and the episode suffers for it.
    I'll agree that it felt like they spent too much time on Stepin in that episode, but I feel like there was some extra info beyond what we saw in ep 4 r.e. the warder bond and how the feelings persist after the Aes Sedai's death (this will definitely be important later on with Lan/Moiraine).

    That said I feel like the first half of the episode was such fan service (in a good way, I loved it), we got a braid tug, a "blood and ashes!", we got a solid almost word-for-word - albeit in the wrong location - intro scene for Loial which included a reference to the Travels of Jain Farstrider.

    For sure you can argue if they halved the warder focus they could fit more in and reduce the how they're pacing through the beats of EotW but I don't find that takes away from it for me. I just love this shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdbond View Post
    I think they removed Elaida. Moraine is enemy of Siuan who is strongest?
    They're overplaying the pretend animosity between them a bit, but isn't Moiraine one of the strongest living Aes Sedai at this point in the books? The only other contenders I can think of are Siuan and Cadsuane, the latter of which is presumed retired/dead.

  16. #1136
    Bloodsail Admiral Smallfruitbat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    They're overplaying the pretend animosity between them a bit, but isn't Moiraine one of the strongest living Aes Sedai at this point in the books? The only other contenders I can think of are Siuan and Cadsuane, the latter of which is presumed retired/dead.
    There is very little (if anything) between Moiraine and Siuan as regards to power levels. Cadsuane is stronger than both.

  17. #1137
    Quote Originally Posted by Smallfruitbat View Post
    There is very little (if anything) between Moiraine and Siuan as regards to power levels. Cadsuane is stronger than both.
    Thank you for the clarification.

  18. #1138
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    They're overplaying the pretend animosity between them a bit, but isn't Moiraine one of the strongest living Aes Sedai at this point in the books? The only other contenders I can think of are Siuan and Cadsuane, the latter of which is presumed retired/dead.
    At the beginning of the books she's probably in top5, not counting Cadsuane, who was said to be strongest Aes Sedai in millennium.

  19. #1139
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Rafe & co. seem to have deliberately dismissed Lan's history. He's been fighting the Shadow for decades. Lord of the Seven Towers, uncrowned king of Malkier, trained at the sword ever since he could hold one. So skilled he even killed two fades at once. Malkieri, alike Shienarans, keep emotions in check when in public. (Husband and wife won't even hold hands)

    Reading what went down, it seems they don't care to have the characterizations that made the characters...at all.
    I'm really glad I stopped even skimming episodes after the aoe god of healing bs.
    Last edited by Xath; 2021-12-03 at 03:21 PM.

  20. #1140
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    It's not changing that the DR is male, it's changing whether the Aes Sedai of the current age know he's male. If the DR shows up every 3k years and there are multiple society-levelling events during that time, it's easy to see how information can get lost or distorted and that's before we even throw Ishamael's shenanigans into the mix.
    one of the coolest things about the White Tower and the Aes Sedai is how powerfully they represented a pillar of stability. While nations and wars changed around them, it was the White Tower that endured it all. Precisely to be a bastion of information, to stand ready to face the Dark One, to be prepared to aid the Dragon Reborn in the last battle. The White Tower, and all it's traditions, is a symbol that represents the exact opposite of "information easily gets lost."

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