1. #1241
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    What are you talking about "white people". I hope you aren't trying to make a racist statement...I'm just not sure what that means. If you watch Episode 5 even Loial backs up my point. Loial knows Rand originates from the Aiel Waste, because of his hair, not Two Rivers. That's the whole point I'm making. You can't tell where someone is from based on their "hair" if most places aren't almost completely homogenous...as would be expected in a middle-ages era setting where it can take days to travel to the next town and weeks to find the next city.

    My point all along is that the people of Two Rivers (except Rand) should have been darker skinned, like Egwene, Nynaeve, or Perrin (but they have to pick one, because even though their skin tone is closer to matching, they are still ethnically diverse). So again, I'm not sure what your "white people" comment means. If the natives of Two Rivers have darker skin, that's how Rand stands out more and folks are curious or suspicious when he says he comes from Two Rivers. Nobody is questioning Rand being from Two Rivers if Two Rivers is a sampling of America's diversity, and it makes Loial kind of an idiot for his assumption.

    Loial: Ahh, your physical attributes tells me you are Aiel.
    2021 woke audience (who don't understand how pre-modern travel works): Stop being racist Loial!! You can't assume Rand's heritage!!!


    Diversity for the Aes Sedai and the Children of the Light makes sense. Lan and Moiraine being diverse makes sense, since they aren't from the same region. Having a tiny town which has next to no visitors ever being ethnically diverse, makes no sense.
    Of course it doesn’t make sense but that’s just how things are now in casting, it doesn’t really matter.

    What’s more important is how the whole thing is off the rails. This week there’s this character called “Lan” who doesn’t seem to match anyone in the book.

  2. #1242
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    snip
    White people means people with lighter skin, typically hailing from the US or european countries, alternatively you could use the term caucasians.

    The Aiel being physically homogeneous doesn't necessitate every other geographic location being equally homogeneous. Just because you can tell by eye that Rand has Aiel heritage doesn't mean you could do the same for someone from the Two Rivers, and even in the books they typically refer to the accent in combination with physical traits (those traits usually being a farmers tan, rather than anything inhereted), suggesting that their "look" isn't sufficient in itself for placing them.

    I'm not really sure what the "woke audience" comment is supposed to be, unless there's been some weird outcry about Aiel physical homogeneity that I haven't seen?

  3. #1243
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazza View Post
    Odd. I felt this episode was terrible, potentially even the weakest of all of them. The people running this show are making some really daft choices on what they are using their very limited screentime (8 episodes for EotW is damn short) for when it comes to progressing the story. Some might disagree, but the ENTIRE bit of the widowed warder is in there to attempt get some easy feels from the audience but to the story IT IS IRRELEVANT.Things mattering in this episode: Egwene and Perryn with the children of the light and basically everybody making it to Tar Valon, Rhand meeting an Ogier and reuniting with Nynaeve, that's it. Half of this episode is fluff that does not belong in a show that only has a very limited time to tell it's story. As a result, the actual story elements feel rushed as hell. IMO, this is the weakest episode so far.
    Agreed. I have no idea where they're going here.

  4. #1244
    wait, hang on. Morraine literally talks to Lan in private about how Logain is 10 years too old, but is pretty powerful, but given her conversation with him when he breaks out - I don't beleive she ever beleived that he was the dragon.

    and speaking of Lan's reaction. he came across to me as an incredibly stoic man who simply hit the breaking point. EVERYONE has a breaking point.

    P.S. the warder and the Aes Sedai that died were in the books and also died. they just died off screen. show chose to have them show up, IMO to emphasize what the bond actualy is like, as well as to humanize both Aes Sedai and the warders.
    Last edited by Witchblade77; 2021-12-04 at 04:49 PM.

  5. #1245
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    White people means people with lighter skin, typically hailing from the US or european countries, alternatively you could use the term caucasians.
    OK, so now it's my turn to lol you and ask you to use better words. I obviously know "white people" are of European descent. I didn't ask you "what are white people". I said I didn't know what your statement regarding white people meant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    I'm not really sure what the "woke audience" comment is supposed to be, unless there's been some weird outcry about Aiel physical homogeneity that I haven't seen?
    Regarding my "woke audience" comment, that is in reference to the modern day woke culture explaining that assuming or even asking someone's heritage is a microaggression. And microaggressions of course point out implicit bias, which of course proves systemic racism. Then again, I've heard them say it's impossible to be racist towards white people, so maybe the woke crowd would be fine with assuming Rand's heritage. /shrug.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  6. #1246
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    wait, hang on. Morraine literally talks to Lan in private about how Logain is 10 years too old, but is pretty powerful, but given her conversation with him when he breaks out - I don't beleive she ever beleived that he was the dragon.

    and speaking of Lan's reaction. he came across to me as an incredibly stoic man who simply hit the breaking point. EVERYONE has a breaking point.
    But here's the thing: it's season 1 episode 5. He's supposed to be incredibly stoic, and he's broken by the first guy he sees die? How is this guy gonna get through the series?

  7. #1247
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    OK, so now it's my turn to lol you and ask you to use better words. I obviously know "white people" are of European descent. I didn't ask you "what are white people". I said I didn't know what your statement regarding white people meant.
    Typically people taking issue with the casting is correlated with how white they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Regarding my "woke audience" comment, that is in reference to the modern day woke culture explaining that assuming or even asking someone's heritage is a microaggression. And microaggressions of course point out implicit bias, which of course proves systemic racism. Then again, I've heard them say it's impossible to be racist towards white people, so maybe the woke crowd would be fine with assuming Rand's heritage. /shrug.
    Well that kinda came out of nowhere. I'm sorry you feel angered by these people.

  8. #1248
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    Of course it doesn’t make sense but that’s just how things are now in casting, it doesn’t really matter.
    As I've said before, it's not a big deal to me, just takes me out of the immersion. Kinda of like a high school play won't have accurately cast people to exactly match the story they are playing, but you suspend disbelief, because you know they have a small pool of kids to pick from. I would just expect better from something in national media with the budget this show has. Again, not a big deal, it just pops me out of immersion from time to time. "hmm...how would Egwene and Perrin be from the same middle-ages era town?" I tend to overthink movies when something pops out as unusual or conflicting natural rules of the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    What’s more important is how the whole thing is off the rails. This week there’s this character called “Lan” who doesn’t seem to match anyone in the book.
    Lan may not be a direct match, but I have enjoyed his portrayal so far. Don't really have any problems with it.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  9. #1249
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    But here's the thing: it's season 1 episode 5. He's supposed to be incredibly stoic, and he's broken by the first guy he sees die? How is this guy gonna get through the series?
    Stoic, silent characters don't translate to screen well. There's also the bias we get in the books in terms of the character's POV painting their view of Lan just by selection. So I'd argue partly that Lan is probably less cold and stoic than we get to see in the books, and also that the show needs to make him human and emotional to have an actual character that's interesting to watch.

  10. #1250
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Well that kinda came out of nowhere. I'm sorry you feel angered by these people.
    You're all good, I don't let them anger me. I typically laugh if I have any emotion at all towards them. They are just who I think about when I see forced diversity.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  11. #1251
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    But here's the thing: it's season 1 episode 5. He's supposed to be incredibly stoic, and he's broken by the first guy he sees die? How is this guy gonna get through the series?
    first guy? just some random stranger???


    they literally establish in a previous episode that they are friends, possibly even best friends. your best friend kills themselves while you are asleep, when you specifically went to them to stay with them and help them through their grief, so you feel guilt for not stopping them in addition to grief over losing them...

    and Lan STILL stays stoic until he sees his own pain reflected at him in Morraine's eyes. given WHY his best friend committed suicide... it would take a sociopath NOT to break at that point and Lan is NOT a sociopath

  12. #1252
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    P.S. the warder and the Aes Sedai that died were in the books and also died. they just died off screen. show chose to have them show up, IMO to emphasize what the bond actualy is like, as well as to humanize both Aes Sedai and the warders.
    Sure they die in the books but it is the prequel one 20 years or so before eye of the world. Including them (the sister and one of her warders) is silly given their role in New World. Just as the break down of the Lan whose entire thing was no emotions in public in the books. They just keep making a lot of odd changes from the books that are not required and don't really make for a compelling story or TV show. Unless they are just going for cheap tricks to engage the audience. Then it seems to be working fine.

    But TV shows don't need to be that way.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  13. #1253
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Sure they die in the books but it is the prequel one 20 years or so before eye of the world. Including them (the sister and one of her warders) is silly given their role in New World. Just as the break down of the Lan whose entire thing was no emotions in public in the books. They just keep making a lot of odd changes from the books that are not required and don't really make for a compelling story or TV show. Unless they are just going for cheap tricks to engage the audience. Then it seems to be working fine.

    But TV shows don't need to be that way.
    books let you see inner monologue of the characters. shows need to SHOW you that characters do feel emotions, because having them monologuing their feelings on screen while looking emotionless, pretty much never truly works. Dune chose to have Jessica breaking down in private and calming herself with a fear mantra. Wheel of time chose to show Lan dealing with loss of someone he greatly cared about without killing off any of the characters that need to stay around for the main story. so they took an existing character and repurposed them.

  14. #1254
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    first guy? just some random stranger???


    they literally establish in a previous episode that they are friends, possibly even best friends. your best friend kills themselves while you are asleep, when you specifically went to them to stay with them and help them through their grief, so you feel guilt for not stopping them in addition to grief over losing them...

    and Lan STILL stays stoic until he sees his own pain reflected at him in Morraine's eyes. given WHY his best friend committed suicide... it would take a sociopath NOT to break at that point and Lan is NOT a sociopath
    This is where I’m at a loss with this series. The first book in this series is about Rand. It’s a story told exclusively from his perspective, up until the point where they split up.

    Lan in that version is the guy Rand sees - the swordsmaster/mentor who constantly belittles Rand’s inexperience and immaturity (calling Rand “sheepherder”) while earning Rand’s respect due to his extreme skill and stamina (while also providing limited perspective into Moiraine, who is even more of a mystery). As the series progresses, you learn more.

    The series has skipped all that.

    The book Lan shares a lot of similarities to Aragorn - an outdoorsman, a warrior/guide, who is a member of a caste (Aragorn the Dunedain, Lan as a warder) but with hints that they are more than just ordinary. We see both from the perspective of the protagonist.

    LOTR movies kept this Aragorn somewhat intact and the story beats are very similar. In Wheel of Time, we’ve got a totally different thing for Lan.

  15. #1255
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    books let you see inner monologue of the characters. shows need to SHOW you that characters do feel emotions, because having them monologuing their feelings on screen while looking emotionless, pretty much never truly works.
    They easily could have had a scene with Lan in private showing his emotions. There is nothing about the film, or visual, format that requires you to bastardize characters so much.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #1256
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    This is where I’m at a loss with this series. The first book in this series is about Rand. It’s a story told exclusively from his perspective, up until the point where they split up.

    Lan in that version is the guy Rand sees - the swordsmaster/mentor who constantly belittles Rand’s inexperience and immaturity (calling Rand “sheepherder”) while earning Rand’s respect due to his extreme skill and stamina (while also providing limited perspective into Moiraine, who is even more of a mystery). As the series progresses, you learn more.

    The series has skipped all that.

    The book Lan shares a lot of similarities to Aragorn - an outdoorsman, a warrior/guide, who is a member of a caste (Aragorn the Dunedain, Lan as a warder) but with hints that they are more than just ordinary. We see both from the perspective of the protagonist.

    LOTR movies kept this Aragorn somewhat intact and the story beats are very similar. In Wheel of Time, we’ve got a totally different thing for Lan.
    That's all intentional. Rafe wanted the series to start closer to the ensemble feeling of the POVs the book turns into, rather than having a very Rand-centric first book.

  17. #1257
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    This is where I’m at a loss with this series. The first book in this series is about Rand. It’s a story told exclusively from his perspective, up until the point where they split up.

    Lan in that version is the guy Rand sees - the swordsmaster/mentor who constantly belittles Rand’s inexperience and immaturity (calling Rand “sheepherder”) while earning Rand’s respect due to his extreme skill and stamina (while also providing limited perspective into Moiraine, who is even more of a mystery). As the series progresses, you learn more.

    The series has skipped all that.

    The book Lan shares a lot of similarities to Aragorn - an outdoorsman, a warrior/guide, who is a member of a caste (Aragorn the Dunedain, Lan as a warder) but with hints that they are more than just ordinary. We see both from the perspective of the protagonist.

    LOTR movies kept this Aragorn somewhat intact and the story beats are very similar. In Wheel of Time, we’ve got a totally different thing for Lan.
    Rand's version of Lan sounds like an asshole that Nyneave would be far too smart to fall for. show's Lan still comes across very Aragorn like (especially the way movies portrayed Aragorn), so I'm guessing they just skipped to showing what Lan is actualy like instead of sticking to limited perspective of a single character for half the season.

  18. #1258
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    Rand's version of Lan sounds like an asshole that Nyneave would be far too smart to fall for. show's Lan still comes across very Aragorn like (especially the way movies portrayed Aragorn), so I'm guessing they just skipped to showing what Lan is actualy like instead of sticking to limited perspective of a single character for half the season.
    The book version of Lan is a hardass but it is more that he’s been shaped that way by the life he’s led. Nynaeve is able to break through the exterior. He’s awesome by the way.

  19. #1259
    This show is pretty bad with really stale performances, bad costumes, set designs and dialogue.

    it's also super slow paced, over halfway through and I don't care about any of these characters, the main guy barely gets screentime, too much of the show is being taken up by silent moments between two characters.

  20. #1260
    Quote Originally Posted by WaltherLeopold View Post
    This show is pretty bad with really stale performances, bad costumes, set designs and dialogue.

    it's also super slow paced, over halfway through and I don't care about any of these characters, the main guy barely gets screentime, too much of the show is being taken up by silent moments between two characters.
    I'm sorry you feel that way.

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