[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Surfd]

Showing the rings in no way proves how they were obtained.

Because a Whitecloak, of all people, is going to just randomly stumble across a bunch of White Tower Aes Sedai rings. You know, just found them for sale at a street corner market.

I mean, think about it for a couple of seconds, eh? These rings are only given as the mark of a fully trained tower sister. They are the literal equivalent of both military Dog Tags for a Special Forces Unit crossed with an Ambassador's Credentials. Wave an Aes Sedai tower ring infront of any political flunky in most countries and you instantly open a boatload of doors that other people would never even get a chance to see. The Tower would probably have very strict policies about retrieving lost rings, and god help anyone who was found attempting to counterfit one.

There is zero chance a Whitecloak Inquisitor just happens to be wandering around with a personal trophy collection of these things unless he took them off an actual Sister's corpse. There is also zero chance someone like Valda is going to show off a bunch of fakes just to try to make himself look good.

So yea, if Valda is showing off rings, there is basically only one likely conclusion as to how he ended up with them.

[Shadowferal]

So yea, if Valda is showing off rings, there is basically only one likely conclusion as to how he ended up with them.

I would've gone with the idea that he made them himself, to show his...flock of followers that though the Light can be a harsh judge, it is a power greater than the witches. And the Children of the Light are its chosen instruments as these rings prove.

Far better and easier...

[Log Cabin]

I would've gone with the idea that he made them himself, to show his...flock of followers that though the Light can be a harsh judge, it is a power greater than the witches. And the Children of the Light are its chosen instruments as these rings prove.

Far better and easier...

I guess? It is a weird direction to take them. The children of the light are not really an evil force. Antagonistic and manipulated yes, but overall outside of notable exceptions they mostly fight dark friends and trollocs.

[rhorle]

I would've gone with the idea that he made them himself, to show his...flock of followers that though the Light can be a harsh judge, it is a power greater than the witches. And the Children of the Light are its chosen instruments as these rings prove. Far better and easier...

Forgeries would fit the general theme of the Children of the Light but we are shown him taking a ring from a sister on screen. So it is a bit silly to even question the source. Even the books implies they will hurt/harm sisters though usually target "trainees" who can't fully channel yet. It has been a while since I read/listened to the books but that is what I seem to recall. So a full fledged sister caught without a warder isn't out of the question.

It is more the proximity to the white tower that is stickler for me. Them that close would have some warders or town guard at least "watching" them. Even more so if they are questioners.

[Corvus]

There is a scene in the third book, I think, where Egwene is coming home from being freed at Falme when a bunch of Whitecloaks come across them near to Tar Valon and Egwene unleashes on them, only to be told off by Verin because the Whitecloaks wouldn't actually try anything, not that close to Tar Valon at least.

[Theangryone]

After how terrible The Shannara Chronicles was I'm scared to even give this one a try.

Ymmv, but what I will say for me personally the pacing is awful and the narrative suffers for it. They have done a cursory amount of worldbuilding and make some strange choices on what has been included so far. The series starts rocky and wastes energy on a unnecessary mystery but quality and production wise each episode is a bit better than the previous. Give it a shot but I’d get past the 4th before making a decision.

[Surfd]

I am honestly kind of curious as to how much worse the showrunners can fuck the series up at this point.

Like, they have already deviated so far from the source material it's crazy, and they aren't even done the first book yet..... Seriously, it's like they saw the last season of GoT as a high bar when it came to "adaptation" and went "hold my beer, I bet I can go even lower".

Like, hell, the original events of the first book went:
Two Rivers Attack -> Escape -> Stop in Baerlon where they meet Min -> Flee to Shadar Logoth -> Flee Shadar Logoth, get separated -> White Bridge -> Caemlyn (where a MASSIVE Amount of shit happens and important characters are introduced) -> Flee Caemlyn through the Ways to Borderlands -> Shinear -> The Eye

The tv series has basically Skipped Baerlon entirely, severely downplayed Shadar Logoth, skipped Caemlyn entirely and fast tracked them directly to the White Tower, which shouldn't even be introduced until AFTER The Eye is found and the Horn / Seal retrieved.

Introducing the White Tower so early is nuts. Like, where do you go from there? Are they going to try to actually start story lines from the second book by splitting the group up and kicking off the Falme plotline without even having found the Eye yet?

[Kharadin]

Some season 2 castings have been announced, and bloody flaming ashes does Uno look like flaming Uno.

Excite.

[jdbond]

This seems to be the big thing to take home. Stop looking to the books for any expectation or understanding of the show. Stop hoping the show is any kind of direct translation of the books. All you'll find is some matching names, a few matching plot points, but it seems like it's mostly going to be its own story.

Except it is a terrible story. These people can't write a story if their life depended on it. Imagine the story from perspective of a non-reader. It looks pathetic. No wonder early reviews were so bad. Rewrite all you want if you can do better! Except half the story makes little sense. And worse, show is directed poorly. Pacing is off, acting is sub par, set designs and cloth are so LARP! Never-mind the "politically" correct casting choices. If story was the only issue, we could have gotten a Witcher. That show has awful story and yet episodes were fun.

This fails at every level.

[Nynax]

Except it is a terrible story. These people can't write a story if their life depended on it. Imagine the story from perspective of a non-reader. It looks pathetic. No wonder early reviews were so bad. Rewrite all you want if you can do better! Except half the story makes little sense. And worse, show is directed poorly. Pacing is off, acting is sub par, set designs and cloth are so LARP! Never-mind the "politically" correct casting choices. If story was the only issue, we could have gotten a Witcher. That show has awful story and yet episodes were fun.

This fails at every level.

Book authors spend thousands of hours to years crafting, literally crafting, their stories and characters. It is a work of art and passion to tell a story they are trying to express from inside themselves. Editors and peer reviews help them tell that story, the suggestions for rewrites are to help communicate what the author wants to tell readers. Great stories, written by great authors, is like great classical art. People can feel the effort and authenticity behind the words and characters.

Story writing for big budget film generally isn't capable of great stories, most are terrible, because authenticity doesn't exist. Instead of masterfully crafted, it's plot by committee. Instead of authentic character representation it's inclusivity, by committee. Instead of genuine struggle and consequences it's drama, by committee. I believe that literally the moment the producers think "I can do better" they begin a downward spiral of cutting and splicing hackjobs. It's like taking furniture from a classic master carpenter and deciding you can make it "just a little more modern" by chopping and sanding details off.

There is SUCH a difference between cutting or altering exposition that feels awkward or drawn out in live action vs changing fundamental aspects of the story, plot, and characters to "make it fit."

/rant

(yes I'm talking out of my ass)

[Smallfruitbat]

Book authors spend thousands of hours to years crafting, literally crafting, their stories and characters. It is a work of art and passion to tell a story they are trying to express from inside themselves. Editors and peer reviews help them tell that story, the suggestions for rewrites are to help communicate what the author wants to tell readers. Great stories, written by great authors, is like great classical art. People can feel the effort and authenticity behind the words and characters.

Story writing for big budget film generally isn't capable of great stories, most are terrible, because authenticity doesn't exist. Instead of masterfully crafted, it's plot by committee. Instead of authentic character representation it's inclusivity, by committee. Instead of genuine struggle and consequences it's drama, by committee. I believe that literally the moment the producers think "I can do better" they begin a downward spiral of cutting and splicing hackjobs. It's like taking furniture from a classic master carpenter and deciding you can make it "just a little more modern" by chopping and sanding details off.

There is SUCH a difference between cutting or altering exposition that feels awkward or drawn out in live action vs changing fundamental aspects of the story, plot, and characters to "make it fit."

/rant

(yes I'm talking out of my ass)

I don't think you're talking out of your ass. You've hit the nail on the head, most of the decisions are taken by committee.

[Beloren]

Book authors spend thousands of hours to years crafting, literally crafting, their stories and characters. It is a work of art and passion to tell a story they are trying to express from inside themselves. Editors and peer reviews help them tell that story, the suggestions for rewrites are to help communicate what the author wants to tell readers. Great stories, written by great authors, is like great classical art. People can feel the effort and authenticity behind the words and characters.

Story writing for big budget film generally isn't capable of great stories, most are terrible, because authenticity doesn't exist. Instead of masterfully crafted, it's plot by committee. Instead of authentic character representation it's inclusivity, by committee. Instead of genuine struggle and consequences it's drama, by committee. I believe that literally the moment the producers think "I can do better" they begin a downward spiral of cutting and splicing hackjobs. It's like taking furniture from a classic master carpenter and deciding you can make it "just a little more modern" by chopping and sanding details off.

There is SUCH a difference between cutting or altering exposition that feels awkward or drawn out in live action vs changing fundamental aspects of the story, plot, and characters to "make it fit."

/rant

(yes I'm talking out of my ass)

It shows you how arrogant these people are. They think they can tell your story better than you. Except they don’t care about your work, just their egos.

Look this show is good on its own, if you hadn’t read the books. M
If you read the books, it’s clear how inferior the story told in the show is and fails to deliver all the charm caveats and wisdom of the writer of the book.

Nothing needed to be changed, but oh no, they had to because…

There is a charm to wheel of time. For all the fancy effects, the show doesn’t translate. It weights things differently and you would never realise how inferior it is until you read the books


If I ignore the books I might give this show a 7/10, but after reading the book , I’d give the book 11/10

[Mace]

I think, like most things I hOllywood thee days, they got too concerned with identity and gender politics, wine was rather than doing the author’s work justice in a faithful portrayal.

If they had spent more time thinking on being about all the good things of the book rather than how much more badass we can make women and remove all these masculinity aspects in the make to show how even more woke we are, I think they would have put out an incredible show and global phenomenon.

Right now, it’s just a fairly good fantasy show, with some neat stuff, but nothing more

[Triceron]

Except it is a terrible story. These people can't write a story if their life depended on it. Imagine the story from perspective of a non-reader. It looks pathetic. No wonder early reviews were so bad. Rewrite all you want if you can do better! Except half the story makes little sense. And worse, show is directed poorly. Pacing is off, acting is sub par, set designs and cloth are so LARP! Never-mind the "politically" correct casting choices. If story was the only issue, we could have gotten a Witcher. That show has awful story and yet episodes were fun.

This fails at every level.

Pacing and exposition, I'll completely give you that.

But just curious, without comparing to the books, what exactly is terrible about the story? I'll give you that the first 3 eps were very disjointed and felt rushed, but the latest two seemed to start to head towards a common point.

[Xath]

Pacing and exposition, I'll completely give you that.

But just curious, without comparing to the books, what exactly is terrible about the story? I'll give you that the first 3 eps were very disjointed and felt rushed, but the latest two seemed to start to head towards a common point.

Do you really refuse to get that the massive differences from the book are the problem?

[Triceron]

Do you really refuse to get that the massive differences from the book are the problem?

For you, sure.

I wasn't asking your opinion on that though, was I? I take things on a case-by-case basis, and I don't assume that everyone who has criticism of the story has the same opinion as you do. I'm not as presumptuous, which is why I ask.

He clearly said "Imagine the story from perspective of a non-reader." which is what I'm asking his thoughts on. I clearly know that you couldn't even fathom that if I were to ask you.

[rhorle]

I'll give you that the first 3 eps were very disjointed and felt rushed, but the latest two seemed to start to head towards a common point.

What would that common point be? It has been nothing but a disjointed journey so far with no over all plot.

[Theangryone]

Do you really refuse to get that the massive differences from the book are the problem?

I will say, I knew there would be changes in an adaptation. Sometimes they will add to the narrative(elves at helms deep) others negatively. I was and still am against the female dragon red herring. And yes, I still feel that it’s a red herring.

The female dragon storyline is a change, that for me, adds nothing to the narrative. In terms of the show the “who is the Dragon Reborn” slows down the story and wastes energy that could have been spent elsewhere. For instance, none of the mains trust Aes Sedai. They spent less than half of an episode with Morraine while she’s conscious. And yet, when separated they all decided to go to Tar Valon. Not one of these penniless young adults decided to go back to Emonds Field for help. They all decided to go ahead despite the show not establishing some type of bond with the mains and Morraine. They could have spent more time with the ensemble group traveling, establishing a group dynamic, and avoided two thirds of an episode dealing with a side character’s funeral just for the last 30 seconds of Nynaeve googley eyeing Lan.

The narrative is dense, so of course there will be narrative changes. I don’t know how you would fit Tel’aran’rhiod and the Seanchan in. I do oppose structural changes to how the world works. Unfortunately, they spent next to no time doing any world building or really explaining how the world works.

[Triceron]

What would that common point be? It has been nothing but a disjointed journey so far with no over all plot.[

Finding the Dragon Reborn and keeping them out of the hands of the Dark One?

I'll agree the story has been disjointed as fuck, but there's still that overlying plot that's keeping everything else together. Literally nothing else but that, really.

[Shadowferal]

As I recall;

"It’s not an adaptation of the books for me; it’s an adaptation of THE NEXT time these people experience this story."