[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Deleted]

IMNSHO, The Sword of Truth is a steaming pile that stands out as not worth the time it takes to read, even as an example of bad writing - drive by recommending it to innocent forum readers borders on criminal. I read Wizard's First Rule years ago and it stuck with me as one of the worst books I have ever read, certainly the worst SF book; I would be grateful if I could completely expunge the memories of it. If you loved the Twilight books as masterworks of literature, then maybe you ought to give it a try - otherwise steer clear and read something, anything else.

For someone who has read the entire series, that is one of the better books in it, but not the best.
So don't feel any need to pick up the second one.

[Beloren]

Does anyone feel that this series is again side tracked by all the social politics that has swept western entertainment?

I read they are focusing on Moiraine - I can't help that this decision is made because it's the trendy thing atm, female centric series and films. What annoys me about this is that Wheel of Time is fine as is. You don't need to push up female and multi-racial representative, it has all of that already.

Females are already strong in the original content, you don't need focus switched to Moiraine - and she does go absent for the latter stages of the series too, will they change the book then?

I noticed the "racial diversity" in the casting choices of Perrin, Nynaeve, and Egwene, - but the book is clear concerning the race of the village of the main characters, absolutely clear.. but it has nations and characters that reflect diversity very easily.. one wonders how non-white Andor and Cairhien is going to be, but then will they race change the Seanchan throne from black to white? It is clear the racial mix of the Sea folk, of the Domani, of Tear, of Illan etc, it is also clear that some organisations are clearly mixed

e.g. the Aes Sedai, and the children of the Light, will have a multi racial structure all round, and they can use those characters.....

Sigh, already this series doesn't look like the book reads, on the casting and focus alone. The changes are totally un-necessary. And smack of pandering. I just hope the actos at least do a good job.

Pandering alterations for no good reason. I really hate this seemingly anti-male, and forced racial diversity forced in. as a non-white, non straight individual, it's very annoying.


If a character is identified as straight in the series, they should remain so in the tv series, while there is some leeway on certain characters, especially the Red Ajah where it is heavily implied, i can accept non-straight relationships, I would even do so on main characters whose sexuality wasn't designed, but on over emphasis on that stuff would ruin it, because the story doesn't really focus on that, if the fact

[Shadowferal]

If they change things then it's dogshit.
For the entirety of the series women are in power. The White Tower is all women. All powerful...and women wield the One Power.
Sure, the narrative changes halfway through, but that's what made the Black Tower such a powerful statement...and a punch in the gut.
And yet it does little to dilute the power and influence of women in the series.

[Beloren]

If they change things then it's dogshit.
For the entirety of the series women are in power. The White Tower is all women. All powerful...and women wield the One Power.
Sure, the narrative changes halfway through, but that's what made the Black Tower such a powerful statement...and a punch in the gut.
And yet it does little to dilute the power and influence of women in the series.

Exactly, so what do they mean by "make moiraine" the focus - if not for some more fem engendering publicity and drive.. I'm really sick of this.

So many shows are distorted by awful female characters who often are portrayed as essentially men in everything but physical appearance, the shows tend to suck.

How would you divert an already strong in female representation adn character to make it more "female centred?". when I read the book, I loved it, i loved the female characters, they were powerful and strong and very female. I'm very worried when they say things like that cos this series doesn't need it. Moiraine is very strong in the first 3 books, especially the first as is, yet when you read it, you get a strong sense of importance to the 3 male youths and their two female peers. We also get powerful female characters show up , including Min, Elayne and the entire female centric Andor throne, Aviendha.. you don't need to shift anything or emphasise anything, just capture it as the writer did.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Does anyone feel that this series is again side tracked by all the social politics that has swept western entertainment?

I read they are focusing on Moiraine - I can't help that this decision is made because it's the trendy thing atm, female centric series and films. What annoys me about this is that Wheel of Time is fine as is. You don't need to push up female and multi-racial representative, it has all of that alre

Book Zero is Literally about Moiraine Focusing on her at the start makes perfect sense unless they want to cut book zero out all together

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/New_Spring

[Rennadrel]

If they change things then it's dogshit.
For the entirety of the series women are in power. The White Tower is all women. All powerful...and women wield the One Power.
Sure, the narrative changes halfway through, but that's what made the Black Tower such a powerful statement...and a punch in the gut.
And yet it does little to dilute the power and influence of women in the series.

I have a feeling part of this is because Rosamund Pike happens to be cast in one of the more important female roles, even though I'd argue that Egwyene and Aviendha are more important female characters in terms of their roles later in the series.

I'm not particularly excited for the show, not because of the casting, but because I'm more concerned that the show runner is going to be another woke idiot who is going to try and flip the script of an already established IP in hopes that people will watch it. I'm even surprised that Amazon approved a second season when the first hasn't even been completed. And really, the first season has to establish who the focal characters are. Anyone who has read the books knows who the main characters are, and trying to drive it in a different direction is going to be disastrous for the producers.

My understanding though is that season one will cover some of the lead up to Eye of the World that was New Spring. And that book is pretty much just Moiraine and Lan from what I remember.

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Book Zero is Literally about Moiraine Focusing on her at the start makes perfect sense unless they want to cut book zero out all together

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/New_Spring

They aren't cutting out New Spring. I'm pretty sure season one starts with that book and it's a bit asinine to believe that she'll be the focal character when that character is her build up and the birth of Rand on Dragonmount. They literally have to because otherwise it's twice as much work in the story telling aspect to develop all of Rand's backstory.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They aren't cutting out New Spring. I'm pretty sure season one starts with that book and it's a bit asinine to believe that she'll be the focal character when that character is her build up and the birth of Rand on Dragonmount. They literally have to because otherwise it's twice as much work in the story telling aspect to develop all of Rand's backstory.

Ya I hadn't read newspring when I went though the series and felt like some parts weren't really explain/developed So to do the same with a show would be a pretty big flaw.

[Beloren]

I have a feeling part of this is because Rosamund Pike happens to be cast in one of the more important female roles, even though I'd argue that Egwyene and Aviendha are more important female characters in terms of their roles later in the series.

I'm not particularly excited for the show, not because of the casting, but because I'm more concerned that the show runner is going to be another woke idiot who is going to try and flip the script of an already established IP in hopes that people will watch it. I'm even surprised that Amazon approved a second season when the first hasn't even been completed. And really, the first season has to establish who the focal characters are. Anyone who has read the books knows who the main characters are, and trying to drive it in a different direction is going to be disastrous for the producers.

that is also my concern, and has killed my enthusiasm too. When you look at the characters I most enjoyed in the series, most of them were females, they stole the show, but why not, even though Rand was the main character as well as his two buddies.. now that's how you do it.. you need no "woke" emphasis of any kind, the writer was pretty "woke" - he's got all the modern things the woke movement cry about, in need to change anything.. you didn't need to "colour" the Emond's field characters or add LGBTQ inserts - it's all their already in a way that matches the context and culture the author is very particular about and sets up very extensively. now there are areas they can add things without necessarily changing a word on the book, reveal things about certain cultures that weren't fleshed out enough to add your woke elements further.. but to then publicise that you're going to essentially make it even more woke is a bad bad sign.

The IP is good enough as is, you don't need to flip the script.. it's not a failing IP, if they do this, they'd just ruin a great IP from the get go. i heard the stuff that is coming out concerning LotR, with Christopher Tolkien gone (may his soul RIP), they're changing everything, basically making it a woke Lord of the Thrones, or Game of the Rings. Totally un-necessary

But then it also hints the motivation is to make a dying franchise popular, it is to push an agenda because these people now view these IPs as platforms for their causes rather than telling stories. they will lose so much money, and wodner where it all went wrong, and be unable to actually see it.. that would be the laughable irony

My understanding though is that season one will cover some of the lead up to Eye of the World that was New Spring. And that book is pretty much just Moiraine and Lan from what I remember.


They aren't cutting out New Spring. I'm pretty sure season one starts with that book and it's a bit asinine to believe that she'll be the focal character when that character is her build up and the birth of Rand on Dragonmount. They literally have to because otherwise it's twice as much work in the story telling aspect to develop all of Rand's backstory.

It is possible the statement is made only with respect to season 1, I didn't realise they'd be doing the majority of a New Spring first, it does kinda shift the focus to Moiraine and Lan first instead of the teenagers. Maybe that's entirely what they meant, if i had read the New Spring novel first I wonder how it would have changed my view.. i don't think I'd have been into WoT half as much, or maybe i would have.

the start was magical

They'd have been much better off going with the eye of the World as is recorded in the book, then using New SPring for flashbacks that build the back story.

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Ya I hadn't read newspring when I went though the series and felt like some parts weren't really explain/developed So to do the same with a show would be a pretty big flaw.

I counted it as part of the mystery to be revealed, one of the biggest catches of the Wheel of Time was the mystery, he was so good at introducing and solving mysteries simultaneously, you always wanted to find out more.

[BigToast]

It seems to me that if all "you people" stopped worrying about "woke culture" you would enjoy things a lot more, yet have less to complain about on the internet.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I counted it as part of the mystery to be revealed, one of the biggest catches of the Wheel of Time was the mystery, he was so good at introducing and solving mysteries simultaneously, you always wanted to find out more.

It’s really not a mystery that can be solved just a part of the story left out unless you read zero. Starting the show from zero instead of just leaving it as a blank for who knows how long is a far better idea.

[Shadowferal]

Ya I hadn't read newspring when I went though the series and felt like some parts weren't really explain/developed So to do the same with a show would be a pretty big flaw.

Pfft... New Spring didn't really do much. Moiraine and Lan had a back and forth banter in a couple of later books that mentions earlier moments the NS fleshed out. Sure, I bought the book knowing what I was getting. But in a movie format it seems redundant.

[Beloren]

Pfft... New Spring didn't really do much. Moiraine and Lan had a back and forth banter in a couple of later books that mentions earlier moments the NS fleshed out. Sure, I bought the book knowing what I was getting. But in a movie format it seems redundant.

Agreed on this one. Starting the movie from a New Spring is un-necessary and will shift the whole tone. The prologue in WoT is enough. It gives the right sense of mystery for what is to come, and doens't reveal too much about the big world ahead.

@Daemos daemonium Think of it as a video game, where you start in the small village, but have no idea that a massive city like Andor or Tar Valon is out there.

Starting with a New Spring also shows and reveals too much. The prologue in EotW is acceptable because that world doesn't exist anymore, so you can do fancy things with it, especially for the flashbacks that will come later on down the line

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Pfft... New Spring didn't really do much. Moiraine and Lan had a back and forth banter in a couple of later books that mentions earlier moments the NS fleshed out. Sure, I bought the book knowing what I was getting. But in a movie format it seems redundant.

DO you really think in a tv show that is far more visual then a book just having some back and forth banter is enough to flesh out some rather important back story stuff?

[Zaktar]

Agreed on this one. Starting the movie from a New Spring is un-necessary and will shift the whole tone. The prologue in WoT is enough. It gives the right sense of mystery for what is to come, and doens't reveal too much about the big world ahead.

@Daemos daemonium Think of it as a video game, where you start in the small village, but have no idea that a massive city like Andor or Tar Valon is out there.

Starting with a New Spring also shows and reveals too much. The prologue in EotW is acceptable because that world doesn't exist anymore, so you can do fancy things with it, especially for the flashbacks that will come later on down the line

I don't see what the big deal is. From what I can tell they are dealing with stuff which happens in the books or is directly referenced, so it fits the story. The slow beginning to the series is a common complaint - I like it but when the goal is to draw in fans, you kind of just have one episode to do it in. When people talk about starting with the LTT stuff, I just picture Billy Zane and cringe - if they do that at all I hope it's quick. Who knows how the show will turn out but I'll worry about that once anyone can actually watch it.

[Antipathy1018]

I don't see what the big deal is. From what I can tell they are dealing with stuff which happens in the books or is directly referenced, so it fits the story. The slow beginning to the series is a common complaint - I like it but when the goal is to draw in fans, you kind of just have one episode to do it in. When people talk about starting with the LTT stuff, I just picture Billy Zane and cringe - if they do that at all I hope it's quick. Who knows how the show will turn out but I'll worry about that once anyone can actually watch it.

You are totally wrong, mainly b/c A New Spring was published in Jan of 2004, a full 14 years and 10 books after everything started and is only meant as a companion piece to people that had already read at least the first novel or 3 minimum. Not to mention it is a novella/somewhat short story to fill in the gaps fans were asking for. I should know I was 1 of those fans asking about how Moiraine knew what she did since 1996.

[Zaktar]

You are totally wrong, mainly b/c A New Spring was published in Jan of 2004, a full 14 years and 10 books after everything started and is only meant as a companion piece to people that had already read at least the first novel or 3 minimum. Not to mention it is a novella/somewhat short story to fill in the gaps fans were asking for. I should know I was 1 of those fans asking about how Moiraine knew what she did since 1996.

What does that have to do with my point about the Eye of the World?

[Shadowferal]

DO you really think in a tv show that is far more visual then a book just having some back and forth banter is enough to flesh out some rather important back story stuff?

I didn't see anything in NS that was needed.
Fleshing out the humble origins of the three ta'varen seemed a priority.

[Antipathy1018]

What does that have to do with my point about the Eye of the World?

Well correct me if I am wrong but from what I read it seemed as if you did not see any issue with them starting at A New Spring.

"you kind of just have one episode to do it in. When people talk about starting with the LTT stuff, I just picture Billy Zane and cringe"

This quote seems to support that. I am just giving you the most basic reason why ANS would not work outside of a season 2 or so flashback.

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I didn't see anything in NS that was needed.
Fleshing out the humble origins of the three ta'varen seemed a priority.

ANS would destroy the entire mystery as to why Moiraine is in the 2 Rivers.

[Zaktar]

Well correct me if I am wrong but from what I read it seemed as if you did not see any issue with them starting at A New Spring.

"you kind of just have one episode to do it in. When people talk about starting with the LTT stuff, I just picture Billy Zane and cringe"

This quote seems to support that. I am just giving you the most basic reason why ANS would not work outside of a season 2 or so flashback.

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ANS would destroy the entire mystery as to why Moiraine is in the 2 Rivers.

From what I can tell there won't be much of a mystery as to why she's in the two rivers. Not sure what the release date of New Spring has to do with its suitability as a starting point.

I don't think they are doing a beat for beat start at New Spring anyway, it looks to me like they're starting shortly before she goes to the Two Rivers to set the stakes and the political intrigue up early. I get purists won't like it but it will probably make the show more watchable for new people.

[Shadowferal]

They have to keep the heart of the story. While our three ta'varen are firmly there, there are almost as strong characters on the wings. If they try to keep Moiraine past the 4th book then they will have screwed up.
The first goal when adapting a book series should always be "win the fans of the books over."