[TV] The Wheel of Time

[Surfd]

Token book fan? Why so insulting and dismissive? Red Eagle has worked with fans in the past for things. She was hired as a consultant for the current TV show which isn't just marketing and "token" status.

But gonna need for people that are questioning me to looking up the meaning of "consultant" and also the meaning of "advice". I am not a producer - bottom line - I am not a producer, I can't make anyone do anything and I don't let things happen because I'm not a decision-maker. I provide support, I advise, and fight battles that maybe feel like I need to fight?

That seems like a pretty straightforward admission that she, is, infact a "token book fan" as far as the production of the TV series is concerned.

I mean, if you get hired as a "consultant" by someone who by all appearances is basically ignoring almost everything the book does while making his "adaptation", then what exactly are you "consulting" on? If you have no power to affect anything and the main guy who does is going hog wild making the show as "not book" as possible, why does he even need a "book consultant"? What's the point of "advising" if the person you are advising probably doesn't actually care about your advice and is going to do whatever the hell they want anyway?

How do you justify calling yourself a "fan" of the books, and then staying on to claim you are "proud" of the act of butchery that resulted, unless you have decided the paycheck is worth more than your pride. At this point, I would be more willing to call her a sellout than a fan.

[rhorle]

That seems like a pretty straightforward admission that she, is, infact a "token book fan" as far as the production of the TV series is concerned.

So by your logic everyone but Rafe is a "token employee" since he has the final say? You are just looking for ways to insult and demean a person just because you don't like the show. She even has a credit for the Winter Dragon short film because she answered an e-mail question about the book series for Red Eagle and I think also got a pre-screening.

Her job is much more then just a token fan for marketing and PR. Just because it isn't a faithful adaptation doesn't mean they still won't check for stuff. Mr. Sanderson consulted as well but will he be relegated to "token hire"?

[jdbond]

Anything good coming on TV in future? Seems like a drought again.

[Mazza]

Her job is much more then just a token fan for marketing and PR. Just because it isn't a faithful adaptation doesn't mean they still won't check for stuff. Mr. Sanderson consulted as well but will he be relegated to "token hire"?

Frankly, with how the show ended up I have no reason to believe that advisors hired for their knowledge of the books were listened to. So yes, I guess?

[Surfd]

Her job is much more then just a token fan for marketing and PR. Just because it isn't a faithful adaptation doesn't mean they still won't check for stuff. Mr. Sanderson consulted as well but will he be relegated to "token hire"?

If you hired someone as an "advisor" for your product, and hype their background and knowledge of the source material as a means of generating interest and establishing legitimacy for the product, and then produce a product that pretty clearly demonstrates that you probably straight up ignored basically any input they might have had, then the only real conclusion I can come to is that yes, they were basically hired as PR / Marketing tokens.

[oplawlz]

Her job is much more then just a token fan for marketing and PR. Just because it isn't a faithful adaptation doesn't mean they still won't check for stuff. Mr. Sanderson consulted as well but will he be relegated to "token hire"?

Yes, they were both unwittingly token hires. The showrunners had to pretend they had people on staff who actually knew something about the books, so they were hired and completely ignored.

[Dancaris]

Woke culture spitting at fans, use fake fans to PR, heh. Old news my friends, old news. I cant believe that fan can be proud of that thing they call adaptation. Its just like porn parody, with similar names and places. And I actually believe that pornparody could do better with books than that thing.

[Biomega]

Anything good coming on TV in future? Seems like a drought again.

Well there's the GoT prequel House of the Dragon, which I'm sure is going to be a loveless, anemic cashgrab to milk the GoT franchise one more time.

There's The Time Traveler's Wife which I'm honestly not too stoked about but has Rose Leslie in it at least; but I'm not sure it's coming in 2022 they haven't said anything definitive yet.

Some Marvel nonsense, too, and The Mandalorian S3 as well as Obi-Wan Kenobi which are probably the biggest release of the year in terms of SF series.

Star Trek has Picard S2 which fills me with equal parts anticipation and dread, because I love what it could be and probably am going to hate what it actually is.

And then, of course, The Big One: the Lord of the Ring TV series on Amazon, which they hope will be an epic hit of titanic proportions, and which people are afraid will suffer a similar fate to WoT where the old Tolkien quote of "evil cannot create, it can only take and corrupt" [paraphrased] is fully realized. But who knows, maybe it WON'T suck.

What I'm honestly looking forward to the most is probably The Sandman; it looked cool so far, but it has its own share of "wokeness controversy" already so who knows where this is going in the end.

[Smallfruitbat]

For the sake of any interest;
Swiped from Dragonmount, which was taken from Reddit:

Since the /r/WoT discussion is riddled with back and forth "no she didn't say that, not exactly!", here's all of her Insta stories presented exactly as they are, and a full transcript.
Full video here

Bloody hell, is that site still running? Last time I checked there were about 6 people on there having the same argument.

I kind of feel sorry for SN, she got her dream job and then it turned out not to be what she thought it was. That said, given the way she conducts herself on social media I'm not surprised by the backlash. I would have been inclined to have let the storm pass over instead of stirring up the pot with posts like the above. Still, it's a bit harsh to be sending her shitty messages over a TV show.

- - - Updated - - -

So by your logic everyone but Rafe is a "token employee" since he has the final say? You are just looking for ways to insult and demean a person just because you don't like the show. She even has a credit for the Winter Dragon short film because she answered an e-mail question about the book series for Red Eagle and I think also got a pre-screening.

Her job is much more then just a token fan for marketing and PR. Just because it isn't a faithful adaptation doesn't mean they still won't check for stuff. Mr. Sanderson consulted as well but will he be relegated to "token hire"?

She spent a lot of time on social media courting attention (not that I think that warrants a barrage of online abuse) and implying that she had more influence in the way things panned out.

As to Brandon Sanderson, he is a class act. He comes out and says, quite diplomatically and says 'yeah they ignored me on X', 'I liked this, I didn't like that'.

[Osperand]

But there weren't any changes in either characterization, and if there were any changes in the big scenes they weren't significant enough to complain about. (If I recall, the "red wedding" may have been a bit more red)

This "Reinvention of the Wheel" isn't just about changes, it's about creating a completely different story. They went from "adaptation" to "based upon." I think it's safe to say it'll eventually become "inspired by." (Don't count on getting any of the major events in the books.) And what Rafe & Co. have already shown was their collective incompetence in crafting any scenes that have such emotional impact. No one cared about what happened to "Laila" any more than Perrin did. And by the 8th episode no one even remembered her. The "grand mystery" over who the Dragon Reborn was, should have been an omg WOW! moment, but was dealt with a casual flippant "oh by the way, yeah it's Rand." And this doesn't touch upon changes made from the books.

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Yes yes..all because you say so..."so there!" Yea...again a child's argument...kids...

- - - Updated - - -

The first season is the foundation they have to build on...which as you know is a sandy dune.

So No major character changes to GoT.....

They completely erased Jeyne Westerling, Rob ends up with a completely new character.
Robs wife Jeyne is not pregnant and does not attend the red wedding
In the books, Theon is aided and abetted by a stinky prisoner named Reek, who turns out to be sadistic Ramsay Snow in disguise.
Caitlin Stark was killed off in the Tv series but in the book after having her throat cut she was brought back to life and is called Lady Stoneheart
In the series Jamie never told Tyrion that his first wife ysha wasn't a prostitute, and she really did love Tyrion
After Joffrey's death his brother Tommen Baratheon marries Margaery Tyrell but in the book he is 8 years old so cannot consummate the marriage and causes a different relationship to ensue with Cersei.
Sansa is still in the vale in the books, she never married Ramsay bolton (in the books he married a common girl who they said was Arya Stark)

There are many more and these are major changes that affect people who read the books first and then watched the TV series.

I think you are being a bit childish yourself as you fail to provide evidence and stick to your own narrative regardless.

[Shadowferal]

I kind of feel sorry for SN, she got her dream job and then it turned out not to be what she thought it was. That said, given the way she conducts herself on social media I'm not surprised by the backlash. I would have been inclined to have let the storm pass over instead of stirring up the pot with posts like the above. Still, it's a bit harsh to be sending her shitty messages over a TV show.

She spent a lot of time on social media courting attention (not that I think that warrants a barrage of online abuse) and implying that she had more influence in the way things panned out.

Yea...and there are two ways should could have dealt with the criticism;

1.) Ignore it all.
The best and most graceful way of handling it all.

2.) "Come at me bro!"
Not the best way but it does show chutzpah. But a bit unreliable when it comes to garnering the appropriate attention.

She propped herself up as a super-fan of the books and has given nothing but unqualified support for the changes and cuts. The nail that stands the highest gets the hammer.

[Mace]

For the sake of any interest;
Swiped from Dragonmount, which was taken from Reddit:

Since the /r/WoT discussion is riddled with back and forth "no she didn't say that, not exactly!", here's all of her Insta stories presented exactly as they are, and a full transcript.
Full video here

SI this an activist or feminist, as in ultra feminist? She seems pretty hung on men, and "it's all because I'm a woman" - which makes me think that she is the sort of person that inetntionally would write male roles down, change source material for agenda purposes.. manipulates, and is so focused on what other people think so she scan sus them to manipulate them rather than either being on honest, or simply trying to carry out an adaptation faithfully.

But I don't know. I haven't been following the reddit crowd.

[Shadowferal]

Well, I was told that some of the book subreddits were protective of her at the start, saying that she fought the good fight but had no control, but the court of public opinion quickly turned against her when she started with her tweets trying to justify changes like the fourth Oath and Logain seeing Nynaeve channeling stuff, and most of her explanations seem pretty hamfisted.

[Shadowferal]

[i]"The Breaking left a thousand wonders behind, and there been half a dozen empires or more since, some rivaling Artur Hawkwing’s, every one leaving things to see and find. Lightsticks and razorlace and heartstone. A crystal lattice covering an island, and it hums when the moon is up. A mountain hollowed into a bowl, and in its center, a silver spike a hundred spans high, and any who comes within a mile of it, dies. Rusted ruins, and broken bits, and things found on the bottom of the sea, things not even the oldest books know the meaning of I’ve gathered a few, myself. Things you never dreamed of, in more places than you can see in ten lifetimes. That be the strangeness that will draw you on.”

“We used to dig up bones in the Sand Hills,” Rand said slowly. “Strange bones. There was part of a fish—I think it was a fish—as big as this boat, once. Some said it was bad luck, digging in the hills.”

The captain eyed him shrewdly. “You thinking about home already, lad, and you just set out in the world? The world will put a hook in your mouth. You’ll set off chasing the sunset, you wait and see… and if you ever go back, your village’ll no be big enough to hold you.” [/i]
------- Bayle Domon...was so nonexistent.

[Corvus]

Funny how she assumes the gender of everyone. And funny how she thinks she is being criticised only because she is a woman and that a man wouldn't be, just ignoring the fact that Rafe is getting far more criticism than she is.

For a self proclaimed lore expert who claims to have read the entire series 50 times she really doesn't understand the books given she is agreeing with the changes Rafe made. Or maybe that sweet Amazon money is just too good to pass on.

[Gumble]

Funny how she assumes the gender of everyone. And funny how she thinks she is being criticised only because she is a woman and that a man wouldn't be, just ignoring the fact that Rafe is getting far more criticism than she is.

For a self proclaimed lore expert who claims to have read the entire series 50 times she really doesn't understand the books given she is agreeing with the changes Rafe made. Or maybe that sweet Amazon money is just too good to pass on.

Well.... she said she read the series 50+ times. Did she ever say she LIKED it?


Honestly, she got paid to be promotional material and keep her mouth shut about them doing whatever they wanted. I don't blame her. Its a job and she likely signed shit that requires her to be positive about it no matter what.

All the blame falls squarely on Rafe's shoulders. Buck stops there.

[Xath]

Well.... she said she read the series 50+ times. Did she ever say she LIKED it?


Honestly, she got paid to be promotional material and keep her mouth shut about them doing whatever they wanted. I don't blame her. Its a job and she likely signed shit that requires her to be positive about it no matter what.

All the blame falls squarely on Rafe's shoulders. Buck stops there.

See I really have to doubt anyone who has claimed to have read it 50 times. 5 times and listened to on audiobook 40+ sure but there's a finite amount of time in the day and unless you are a trust fund kid a lot of that time is taken up with work.

[jdbond]

So No major character changes to GoT.....

They completely erased Jeyne Westerling, Rob ends up with a completely new character.
Robs wife Jeyne is not pregnant and does not attend the red wedding
In the books, Theon is aided and abetted by a stinky prisoner named Reek, who turns out to be sadistic Ramsay Snow in disguise.
Caitlin Stark was killed off in the Tv series but in the book after having her throat cut she was brought back to life and is called Lady Stoneheart
In the series Jamie never told Tyrion that his first wife ysha wasn't a prostitute, and she really did love Tyrion
After Joffrey's death his brother Tommen Baratheon marries Margaery Tyrell but in the book he is 8 years old so cannot consummate the marriage and causes a different relationship to ensue with Cersei.
Sansa is still in the vale in the books, she never married Ramsay bolton (in the books he married a common girl who they said was Arya Stark)

There are many more and these are major changes that affect people who read the books first and then watched the TV series.

I think you are being a bit childish yourself as you fail to provide evidence and stick to your own narrative regardless.

That's the entire show, right? Vs. One season of WoT? Now tell me if all those changes came from very first season?

Again , it doesn't matter. GoT had better directors, cohesive story, better actors, better set team, better...Your WoT show fails at every measurable parameter. We could all ignore the story if rest stood out. WoT is poorly crafted with or without a story! Costume, pacing, dialogues (Shannara level dialogues),....

I mean whose idea was to insert the idea of "rich" WT tower oppressing poor Wisdoms or Mat's father being a drunk womanizer forcing Mat to do whatever to make ends meet? GoT changed story because they needed to reduce the size, WoT made changes to cater to Woke class. I can forgive for skipping Camelyn due to lack of time but why are men shown so useless and horrible? There is a "purpose" behind these changes which was not there in GoT. They didn't make Eddard Stark a Chinese woman and Khalessi a black guy. They cut to fit the show. Here they are rewriting to serve personal agenda and it shows when they can't keep their story straight.

How is that Moiraine knows the location of eye of the world and this knowledge was never shared with Lan. How many instances you saw in books where Aes Sedai would keep secrets from their Warders and this was not even a secret. They were all planning to travel to this Eye and yet, Lan didn't know where it was? This was done just to "highlight" the role of Moiraine. All the dialogues and nonsense we saw at "Eye". Ofcourse they couldn't figure out what to do with Lan so they added a tell and made him "chase" Moiraine. No impact on story. Perfect. This kind of shoddy writing is seen in your nightly shows that run for 6-7 years where everyone dates everyone eventually, people date and break every season, people come and go..

[Shadowferal]

See I really have to doubt anyone who has claimed to have read it 50 times. 5 times and listened to on audiobook 40+ sure but there's a finite amount of time in the day and unless you are a trust fund kid a lot of that time is taken up with work.

For myself a couple of times every year, with select passages even more so. Since the first book came out in 1990 a complete read would have been difficult, but doable for me. I don't have a life...its true.

[Noxina]

That's the entire show, right? Vs. One season of WoT? Now tell me if all those changes came from very first season?

Again , it doesn't matter. GoT had better directors, cohesive story, better actors, better set team, better...Your WoT show fails at every measurable parameter. We could all ignore the story if rest stood out. WoT is poorly crafted with or without a story! Costume, pacing, dialogues (Shannara level dialogues),....

I mean whose idea was to insert the idea of "rich" WT tower oppressing poor Wisdoms or Mat's father being a drunk womanizer forcing Mat to do whatever to make ends meet? GoT changed story because they needed to reduce the size, WoT made changes to cater to Woke class. I can forgive for skipping Camelyn due to lack of time but why are men shown so useless and horrible? There is a "purpose" behind these changes which was not there in GoT. They didn't make Eddard Stark a Chinese woman and Khalessi a black guy. They cut to fit the show. Here they are rewriting to serve personal agenda and it shows when they can't keep their story straight.

How is that Moiraine knows the location of eye of the world and this knowledge was never shared with Lan. How many instances you saw in books where Aes Sedai would keep secrets from their Warders and this was not even a secret. They were all planning to travel to this Eye and yet, Lan didn't know where it was? This was done just to "highlight" the role of Moiraine. All the dialogues and nonsense we saw at "Eye". Ofcourse they couldn't figure out what to do with Lan so they added a tell and made him "chase" Moiraine. No impact on story. Perfect. This kind of shoddy writing is seen in your nightly shows that run for 6-7 years where everyone dates everyone eventually, people date and break every season, people come and go..

You do know you can just not watch the show if it upsets you this much? No need to have a heartattack.

People blow up the changes, sure they aren't minor, but they aren't that fucking story breaking either. Me personally, am excited to see how this plays out. It's nice with a fresh view on things after reading the books 14 times over the last 10-15 years.