So basically the MMO genre is dead, or?

[unholytestament]

I already mentioned star citizen

Lol shroud of the avatar something straight out of the 90's

City of heroes remake? I heard about that YEARS ago... I thought it was dead.

Camelot Unchained yet another niche failure on an atrocious engine

May as well have mentioned all the other kickstarter MMOs that will never see the light of day

The genre is full of things I don't like, CLEARLY IT IS DEAD.

Is there a point to this topic?

[Lazuli]

The genre is full of things I don't like, CLEARLY IT IS DEAD.

Is there a point to this topic?

Those games will clearly never make it.

Irrelevant whether or not I like them.

I don't like star citizen but acknowledge that it will most likely be a success, I have a RL friend that pledged $300 on one of the commander ships lol

[StationaryHawk]

Those games will clearly never make it.

Irrelevant whether or not I like them.

What qualifies as "making it"? You've claimed SWTOR was a colossal failure but as far as I'm aware, it's still doing quite well.

[unholytestament]

Those games will clearly never make it.

Irrelevant whether or not I like them.

That really depends on how you define making it.

The MMORPG genre is larger than it has ever been. MMOs actually shutting down is not really a common thing.

Hell, the last MMO I can recall shutting down was Scarlet Blade, and I doubt too many people are going to miss that one.

[Lazuli]

What qualifies as "making it"? You've claimed SWTOR was a colossal failure but as far as I'm aware, it's still doing quite well.

You have any idea the amount of money they put into swtor only to make a cinematic heavy MMO that looks so dated it could have been released in 2005?

Let's just say even after F2P I highly doubt they got their return lol over $200 million spent initially that I know of

Voice actors aren't cheap, especially when every character has one. And that's literally the 1 thing that game has going for it.

[unholytestament]

You have any idea the amount of money they put into swtor only to make a cinematic heavy MMO that looks so dated it could have been released in 2005?

Let's just say even after F2P I highly doubt they got their return lol over $200 million spent

The game is still running, the game is still turning a profit. The thing is run by fucking EA, do you think it would still be running if it were bleeding money?

You can doubt whatever you want. It doesn't make you right.

[Mormolyce]

I think so, or at least their days of being a big part of the gaming landscape are.

Who has time to invest in an MMO with so many smaller games competing for our attention? And they've always been a big burden time-wise compared to other games.

There will always be MMOs, but I think it'll mostly be small sandbox MMOs that people flit between and maybe one or two big ones hanging around.

[Edge-]

Lol shroud of the avatar something straight out of the 90's

And?...It's raising money still and chugging along towards completion. I don't understand why one would dismiss a throwback game, hardly the first time one has been made.

City of heroes remake? I heard about that YEARS ago... I thought it was dead.

Small teams, limited budgets, MMO's take a long time to develop. There are a few and they're all still making progress last I checked.

Camelot Unchained yet another niche failure on an atrocious engine

How so? Game seems to have a dedicated fanbase that backed it (largely because of Jacobs), and nobody has thought it would be anything other than a niche MMO. What about the engine is bad? The footage I've seen so far looks pretty good for an unfinished game.

May as well have mentioned all the other kickstarter MMOs that will never see the light of day

All the games mentioned thus far, except for the CoH spiritual successors, are either already playable in some state or are making steady progress towards market with no indications that they will not be completed.

You have any idea the amount of money they put into swtor only to make a cinematic heavy MMO that looks so dated it could have been released in 2005?

Rumor has it between $2-300 million. But what's your point? They were licensing a major IP and wasted money on all kinds of shit that was more a sign of their arrogance than anything else (fully voiced and animated cutscenes for side-quests, wut?). Visuals were better than anything released in terms of MMO's in 2005 by far, the game just ran like shit because BioWare's in-house finished beta version of the Hero Engine is dogshit.

Let's just say even after F2P I highly doubt they got their return lol over $200 million spent initially that I know of

They have by now, easily. The game is quite stable and is called out as part of their successful online segment of games regularly on earnings calls. F2P turned things around in a big way for them, that's the reason why they're still regularly putting out new content.

Voice actors aren't cheap, especially when every character has one. And that's literally the 1 thing that game has going for it.

Depends on if you're hiring union or not, doubly so with bigger names. Union, you're right, they're expensive. But if you hire a bunch of non-union talent you can get it done much more affordabley.

But that was far from the biggest problem the game had at launch that caused its initial struggles.

[LilSaihah]

You have any idea the amount of money they put into swtor only to make a cinematic heavy MMO that looks so dated it could have been released in 2005?

Let's just say even after F2P I highly doubt they got their return lol over $200 million spent initially that I know of

Voice actors aren't cheap, especially when every character has one. And that's literally the 1 thing that game has going for it.

No, they've made their return. If the investment was not valuable they wouldn't have made it. It's EA- if the game wasn't profitable and had no future profitability they'd execute it on the spot. There are very good reasons why they're continuing to invest in the platform, especially with reports of KotFE being so successful- and frankly, in my opinion, it's actually a better game than WoW at the moment it has something to fucking do

[Edge-]

No, they've made their return. If the investment was not valuable they wouldn't have made it. It's EA- if the game wasn't profitable and had no future profitability they'd execute it on the spot. There are very good reasons why they're continuing to invest in the platform, especially with reports of KotFE being so successful- and frankly, in my opinion, it's actually a better game than WoW at the moment it has something to fucking do

They likely have licensing agreements with LA/Disney that require them to keep it running for X period of time, so they'd have Warhammered it if anything. Just let it sit there, largely abandoned until the license expires and then let it close down.

[DarkAmbient]

MMOs are kind of like computer operating systems, in that when you've already got a handful of good ones you don't really need any more, and others that are developed will always have a small/niche customer base.

I've played MMOs on and off since 2007, so fairly late to the party, but I'm already way past the point where any new MMO can give me that magic feeling of being a newbie again. I see them for what they are: pretty Skinner boxes with different ways of pushing the button to get my reward.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I wouldn't mind to be honest. I rather see them going back to making RPGs again in many cases rather than MMORPGs. Give me my Elder Scrolls and Knights of the Old Republic back without the MMO trash.

[Halicia]

That really depends on how you define making it.

The MMORPG genre is larger than it has ever been. MMOs actually shutting down is not really a common thing.

Hell, the last MMO I can recall shutting down was Scarlet Blade, and I doubt too many people are going to miss that one.

Its actually pretty common. Its just that when it happens, its usually because noone's playing them to justify the cost anymore, thus meaning they're not really newsworthy, even in gaming news.

Its like a company announcing they're discontinuing patch support for a game only 4 people play. That's not gonna get reported on, because noone gives a !@#$.

I remember Wizardry got shut down before I even knew it had gone live, and that barely made news.

[Edge-]

I remember Wizardry got shut down before I even knew it had gone live, and that barely made news.

It was a strange game for SOE to bring West to begin with. Minimal marketing push, super duper ultra niche, and frankly one of the worst MMO's I've ever played. I spent more time fighting with the UI than I did fighting against any enemies. But it was during the time SOE was taking steps towards being one of the MMO megapublishers, something that it (now DBG) has moved away from (even if they've got more than their fair share of problems already).

It got some press attention amongst the MMO specific sites (that's how I found about it), but unless you were glued to the handful of those sites I'd be surprised if anyone else knew it existed.

[unholytestament]

Its actually pretty common. Its just that when it happens, its usually because noone's playing them to justify the cost anymore, thus meaning they're not really newsworthy, even in gaming news.

Its like a company announcing they're discontinuing patch support for a game only 4 people play. That's not gonna get reported on, because noone gives a !@#$.

I remember Wizardry got shut down before I even knew it had gone live, and that barely made news.

Thank you. Your one example of a game that shut down two years ago totally proves your point of how common an occurrence it is.

[Deleted]

Yeah I know about Eve, it has a strong following, but like I said I don't know if those are considered MMORPGs.

Massive - Eve allows for massive amount of players...
Multiplayer - ... to play together
Online - No other vaiable way to make it so
Role - Players take role in those games in form of space pirates, traders etc
Playing - ...
Game - It is

Eve is a MMORPG.

[Onikaroshi]

They're not, and thankfully not, I don't enjoy ANY other type of game for long, mmo's or nothing.

[kail]

Yeah I know about Eve, it has a strong following, but like I said I don't know if those are considered MMORPGs. I don't even know if Eve has a story, lol. I was never really into space sims as I am more of a on-the-ground combat type player.

EVE is possibly the one game I'd say defines the MMORPG genre. Having player driven economy and warfare is a huge reasoning behind this statement, and based on what I understand Black Desert adopts many of the ideas. When the players affect the game in the persistent world/universe, then it has achieved the MMO genre.

[bbr]

Eve online, while not dead,. hasn't doubled it's subscriptions either,.

They're still stuck at around 250k i guess?
Recently they banned a ton of bots and thus accounts.

[zealo]

You have any idea the amount of money they put into swtor only to make a cinematic heavy MMO that looks so dated it could have been released in 2005?

Let's just say even after F2P I highly doubt they got their return lol over $200 million spent initially that I know of

Voice actors aren't cheap, especially when every character has one. And that's literally the 1 thing that game has going for it.

They make about 150 million USD per year on coins for their micro transaction shop alone, last I heard. The thing is run by EA, they wouldn't be putting content out as regularly as they do if it weren't making them a profit. They've long since passed the point of regaining spent money.

That said, I can definitely understand frustration with it, as Bioware seems intent on turning swtor into a single player rpg even more. There haven't been a new raid in that game in over a year, and they've gone on record saying there'll be none in kotfe.