1. #9761
    Over 9000! Orby's Avatar
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    Play less now than I used to and I been better for it. Since cutting the amount of games I play to about 4 games a day, I have lowered my toxicity and improved win rate. all in all how I am playing now is better for me. Although I no longer play ranked, a sacrifice that is worth it I feel.

    Healthy plays

  2. #9762
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Not exactly a positive win rate, but doing okay with Ashe/Widow/Pharah. Not tanking anymore, not until they at least make some kind of overtures towards fixing the shit state they're in.
    What do you mean by shit state? The current meta includes three tanks, and Road is pretty strong in Solo Q, and Winston is strong on dive maps. I know playing Rein is a ballache unless your team can help you play around CC but otherwise Tanks are pretty strong as far as I can see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vintersol View Post
    You are dependant of the team. If they pick/play like shit, you are doomed. Simple as that.
    Not totally, if you outplay your counterpart on the opposing team you will generally climb. Have you heard of the 1/3 rule? It's a pretty loose rule but I quite like the idea. One third of all your games you will win, regardless of your play, one third you will lose. The other third will depend on your play entirely.

    I like it, and there's definitely some truth in it. It also helps me avoid tilt every now and then, getting a minute into a game and mentally writing it off as the bottom third, and know all I'm gonna do is try to improve my play during it rather than win.

  3. #9763
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    What do you mean by shit state? The current meta includes three tanks, and Road is pretty strong in Solo Q, and Winston is strong on dive maps. I know playing Rein is a ballache unless your team can help you play around CC but otherwise Tanks are pretty strong as far as I can see.
    What works in Pro play doesn't translate to ladder, in Gold, nobody plays Tanks. It's been a real eye opener to be honest, running with 1 or 0 tanks if I don't tank myself seems to be basically the norm, moreso than getting 2 Tanks. Rein with Zarya is basically the only viable choice at this level, or at a pinch D.Va in place of Zarya but the rest don't do well at all.

    If you get a tank or two at the start, it doesn't mean you'll finish with them either; because there's so little synergy between them, especially if you end up with Zarya-Roadhog, which happens a lot, and they just end up feeding.

  4. #9764
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    What works in Pro play doesn't translate to ladder, in Gold, nobody plays Tanks. It's been a real eye opener to be honest, running with 1 or 0 tanks if I don't tank myself seems to be basically the norm, moreso than getting 2 Tanks. Rein with Zarya is basically the only viable choice at this level, or at a pinch D.Va in place of Zarya but the rest don't do well at all.

    If you get a tank or two at the start, it doesn't mean you'll finish with them either; because there's so little synergy between them, especially if you end up with Zarya-Roadhog, which happens a lot, and they just end up feeding.
    Yeah I feel your pain with the double off-tank, I'm trying to rank up my dps account and the number of times I see double OT just makes eye-roll so hard. I disagree about Rein/Zar being the only viable choice though, D.Va is really strong in any rank, and a Winston paired with any other-divey characters is fantastic at punishing positional mistakes in gold since they occur so often.

    While you're right about pro play not translating directly to ladder, especially in lower ELOs there's something to be said for it. Goats being as strong as it is lends itself to Ana/Rein being picked more often, which is really strong if you plan to overrun the enemy. If ever no one chooses main supp. I usually choose Ana and tell my tanks to be super aggressive, unless the enemy flanks me Ana's raw healing output can easily carry games.

    Hog is another strong pick if you wanna punish poor positioning, he doesn't have much of a place in the meta but in lower ELOs one good hook can ruin the enemy team. As long as you don't feed lol.

  5. #9765
    So in the past 2 weeks, the MM in Heroes of The Storm, which I had considered surprisingly
    WORSE then Overwatch's, has actually allowed me to climb and not trap me in the ELO Hell
    it had trapped me in for 3 seasons.

    Luckily, Overwatch's MM System is still fucking garbage, and continues to purposely fuck me
    over.

  6. #9766
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    Overwatch's MM System is still fucking garbage, and continues to purposely fuck me
    over.
    How so? I've found the matchmaking to be pretty chill.

  7. #9767
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    How so? I've found the matchmaking to be pretty chill.
    Because the game will throw you (purposely) on a non-stop losing streak, then stop you for
    a handful of games before throwing you again. And from there, there's no win streak. It literally
    traps you.

    Anytime you try to climb out, it literally yanks on your chain and throws you back into ranks you
    don't deserve to be in.
    Last edited by ThatsOurEric; 2019-01-12 at 04:31 AM.

  8. #9768
    Herald of the Titans Katie N's Avatar
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    Starting to get very annoyed by how easy it is for reinhardt to disrupt your gameplay. Just run after you holding left-click and you can't aim because you're being pushed around all the time and your team is stupid and doesn't focus him down with no shield up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    Because the game will throw you (purposely) on a non-stop losing streak, then stop you for
    a handful of games before throwing you again. And from there, there's no win streak. It literally
    traps you.

    Anytime you try to climb out, it literally yanks on your chain and throws you back into ranks you
    don't deserve to be in.
    If you can't climb you are where you should be. If you do not improve you will be stuck.

  9. #9769
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    If you can't climb you are where you should be. If you do not improve you will be stuck.
    No, that is, and always has been bullshit.

    The very fact that this game's MM gets so much shit is because OTHER PLAYERS are as equally
    responsible as the user for whether they climb. Its retarded to expect every player to carry a
    game alone. Not everyone is a dps main, and not everyone is top 500.

    So no, its most of the time, not "where you should be." If the game throws you shitty teammates,
    and you don't win, that is NOT your fault.

  10. #9770
    Herald of the Titans Katie N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    No, that is, and always has been bullshit.

    The very fact that this game's MM gets so much shit is because OTHER PLAYERS are as equally
    responsible as the user for whether they climb. Its retarded to expect every player to carry a
    game alone. Not everyone is a dps main, and not everyone is top 500.

    So no, its most of the time, not "where you should be." If the game throws you shitty teammates,
    and you don't win, that is NOT your fault.
    No, that is how this rating system works. I have friends who say it is impossible to get out of silver. I play their accounts and then after a few days of playing on it they are in platinum, could be in diamond if I kept playing on their accounts. They can't stay in platinum and go back down to silver and blame it on their teammates instead of owing up to their skill not being good enough to be in platinum.

  11. #9771
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    Because the game will throw you (purposely) on a non-stop losing streak, then stop you for
    a handful of games before throwing you again. And from there, there's no win streak. It literally
    traps you.

    Anytime you try to climb out, it literally yanks on your chain and throws you back into ranks you
    don't deserve to be in.
    So how come people who are good can climb out of the lower tiers? You don't see GMs hardstuck in gold, because they thrash everyone and win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    No, that is, and always has been bullshit.

    The very fact that this game's MM gets so much shit is because OTHER PLAYERS are as equally
    responsible as the user for whether they climb. Its retarded to expect every player to carry a
    game alone. Not everyone is a dps main, and not everyone is top 500.

    So no, its most of the time, not "where you should be." If the game throws you shitty teammates,
    and you don't win, that is NOT your fault.
    No, that's not true. Some knowledge of probability and statistics would tell you that you have a larger impact on your ability to climb than your teammates.

  12. #9772
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Actually I’ve seen a lot of higher ranked players saying that they have alt accounts that are hard stuck in Gold. I mean, eventually you should get out but it isn’t necessarily as easy as just getting good.

    As for my own games, I’m back in Silver. Quit tanking and it’s basically where my DPS probably should be right now. I’m maining Ashe (with some Pharah and Widowmaker) and getting better, starting to win and climb a bit again. As frustrating as dropping 400SR was initially, it tought me that being honest with myself, that my DPS probably has been the hole in my skillset that stopped me climbing. I always had poor win rates when pushed to it, and I guess this experience has proven it is where I need to get better, and few matches last night I’m starting to feel like I am getting better.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2019-01-12 at 10:47 AM.

  13. #9773
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Actually I’ve seen a lot of higher ranked players saying that they have alt accounts that are hard stuck in Gold.
    Can you cite that? Of course it's not just git gud, it's git gud and also play enough games. If you only play 10 games you're not gonna climb out of anywhere, but if you are good and you play well consistently your SR will reflect this. No GM player is hardstuck in gold.

  14. #9774
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Yeah, no I’m not going to trawl through months and months of forum posts for comments that come up largely in passing.

  15. #9775
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Yeah, no I’m not going to trawl through months and months of forum posts for comments that come up largely in passing.
    I'd assume if having accounts hardstuck in gold was even a remote possibility it'd be quite easy to find a twitch clip or youtube video where this is easily cited.

  16. #9776
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    No, that is how this rating system works. I have friends who say it is impossible to get out of silver. I play their accounts and then after a few days of playing on it they are in platinum, could be in diamond if I kept playing on their accounts. They can't stay in platinum and go back down to silver and blame it on their teammates instead of owing up to their skill not being good enough to be in platinum.
    Then it depends entirely on the role you're playing.

    If you're a dps, yeah, it's a lot more doable to climb in the rankings. If you're a tank or support main, it isn't.

    Either way, yes, that is how the system works. This is a TEAM based game. If you're team fails, you are going
    to fail (unless you're a very skilled dps, and even then, you're bound to have some trouble at some point).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    So how come people who are good can climb out of the lower tiers? You don't see GMs hardstuck in gold, because they thrash everyone and win.
    DPS mains.

    No, that's not true. Some knowledge of probability and statistics would tell you that you have a larger impact on your ability to climb than your teammates.
    It is true. In a TEAM based game, the performance of the team (including yourself) is what ultimately wins
    the game. If someone (or multiple) people are pure garbage, your game is now significantly more difficult
    to impossible to win, since now it depends on how good or bad the opposite team is. Since draws don't
    happen all that often, you'll find that most of the time, teams aren't going to be even. Given how fucking
    incompetent OW's MM is, the real question in every game is how many bad players are in each team. The
    one with the most throwers, leavers, insta-lockers, toxic one is the loser, and the one that has the least,
    and maybe a smurf here or there, is the winner.

    The game absolutely blames you for the terrible performance of other players, which is absolutely unfair.
    Last edited by ThatsOurEric; 2019-01-12 at 03:40 PM.

  17. #9777
    Herald of the Titans Katie N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    Then it depends entirely on the role you're playing.

    If you're a dps, yeah, it's a lot more doable to climb in the rankings. If you're a tank or support main, it isn't.

    Either way, yes, that is how the system works. This is a TEAM based game. If you're team fails, you are going
    to fail (unless you're a very skilled dps, and even then, you're bound to have some trouble at some point).
    No, it doesn't. I've played healers, I've played tanks and I've played DPS. If you are meant to gain rating, you will gain rating. If you are not meant to gain rating, you won't and it doesn't matter what you play. The character that is easiest for me to gain rating with is if I just play Roadhog. Not a DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    It is true. In a TEAM based game, the performance of the team (including yourself) is what ultimately wins
    the game. If someone (or multiple) people are pure garbage, your game is now significantly more difficult
    to impossible to win, since now it depends on how good or bad the opposite team is.
    If you are supposed to gain rating, you are better than the bad players and thus your team has an advantage but if you're not better than them then you either are where you should be or you are too high and will go down in rating.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    The game absolutely blames you for the terrible performance of other players, which is absolutely unfair.
    No, it doesn't. Your own performance is what affects how much rating you win or lose up until diamond. If you perform very good, you will gain rating very fast. If you perform really bad, you will lose rating fast. When I play my friends account it doesn't matter if I lose 4 games in a row, if I won one I gained more rating than was lost when losing 4 games.
    Last edited by Katie N; 2019-01-12 at 03:55 PM.

  18. #9778
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    Then it depends entirely on the role you're playing.

    If you're a dps, yeah, it's a lot more doable to climb in the rankings. If you're a tank or support main, it isn't.

    Either way, yes, that is how the system works. This is a TEAM based game. If you're team fails, you are going
    to fail (unless you're a very skilled dps, and even then, you're bound to have some trouble at some point).
    Where are you getting these postulates from? It's no harder or easier to carry as anything, generally, maybe sustain-y heroes like soldier, road, mei are easier to abuse for SR in the lower ELOs but generally you have to just play better than your enemy counterpart.

    I found climbing as D.Va/Zarya incredibly easy (at least up to diamond), and some support mains argue carrying as an Ana is entirely possible if you're good and use comms. Trying to climb as DPS is aids just because people scream for you to switch every other game, which makes climbing for me harder because I just stop using comms. Also, climbing as Brig is literally the easiest thing in the world, anything below 2900 and they just fall over when you pick Brig and roll them off the point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    snip
    No, not DPS mains. Anything mains. Good players are good, whatever they main, with brand new accounts they can play Tank/Supp/whatever and still place masters after placements. Expecting to carry as DPS is the gold mentality and that makes games garbage when everyone jumps on DPS and then screams at everyone else to switch.

    Yes, the performance of the team determines whether you win or lose, this is entirely correct. But on average, the enemy team is more likely to have garbage players than you are, assuming of course, you are not garbage. If you are playing at the correct SR, you will win on average, 50% of your games. If you are playing better, you will climb, if you are playing worse, you will drop.

    I've found the Overwatch MMR system to work pretty well, on my second account I placed just under my main playing DPS rather than tank. Generally if I play well I go on win streaks and if I'm playing poorly I'll go on loss streaks.

  19. #9779
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    No, it doesn't.
    Yes, it does.

    snip
    No.

    snip
    Yes, it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    No, not DPS mains. Anything mains. Good players are good, whatever they main, with brand new accounts they can play Tank/Supp/whatever and still place masters after placements. Expecting to carry as DPS is the gold mentality and that makes games garbage when everyone jumps on DPS and then screams at everyone else to switch.
    Absolutely untrue. A godlike healer doesn't carry the game. Not unless the rest of the team is at least, mildly competent.
    A team of average to less than average can absolutely be carried by a high level dps player. I've been on the receiving end
    and won with high level dps who would absolutely carry the entire game. No healer has ever been the cause of my team
    losing. It has always been because of a dps shredding everyone, and vice versa.

    Yes, the performance of the team determines whether you win or lose, this is entirely correct. But on average, the enemy team is more likely to have garbage players than you are, assuming of course, you are not garbage. If you are playing at the correct SR, you will win on average, 50% of your games. If you are playing better, you will climb, if you are playing worse, you will drop.
    And if you are playing optimally to your ability, and the team doesn't, guess what happens? You are penalized for it
    by losing just as much as them.

    I've found the Overwatch MMR system to work pretty well
    We are going to vehemently disagree on that one.

  20. #9780
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    snip
    You've never seen a good Ana play if you think they can't carry.

    And yes, even if you're playing god-like and hard carrying you may still lose. This however, will be rare. This is why you have to play many games to climb, you'll never win every single game unless you're a GM widow/hanzo playing in Bronze/Silver where you can headshot your way to victory. Once people are semi-competant, however, you will indeed need more than 1 competent player to achieve victory.

    I feel like this is just gonna go around in circles, but feel free to continue blaming your team and being hardstuck in plat, I guess. In the mean time I'll continue enjoying OW and climbing as my ability improves. Good players are busy doing the same.

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