1. #9961
    This argument again? What is it about this thread that pulls in people who think they're better than they are?

    If you're placed in gold then hey guess what, you're gold. If you think you are better than that then play until you can prove it. The number of times I've tanked down to gold or silver trying to learn a new hero just to bring up my SR again by either improving or moving back to my mains is sufficient to say that you can climb if you're better than your SR, if you can't, you deserve it.

  2. #9962
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    This argument again? What is it about this thread that pulls in people who think they're better than they are?

    If you're placed in gold then hey guess what, you're gold. If you think you are better than that then play until you can prove it. The number of times I've tanked down to gold or silver trying to learn a new hero just to bring up my SR again by either improving or moving back to my mains is sufficient to say that you can climb if you're better than your SR, if you can't, you deserve it.
    I don’t think anyone brought up that arguement. The question the person made was whether they could carry 5 other players, to which I posted “according to people in Masters then yes.”
    Other people started posting that you should be able to depending on where you sit.
    Didn’t really have anything to do with climbing SR.

  3. #9963
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    I don’t think anyone brought up that arguement. The question the person made was whether they could carry 5 other players, to which I posted “according to people in Masters then yes.”
    Other people started posting that you should be able to depending on where you sit.
    Didn’t really have anything to do with climbing SR.
    So complaining about placing into gold or having to carry games has nothing to do with how representative SR is or acquiring SR?

    Hmm, okay.

  4. #9964
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    So complaining about placing into gold or having to carry games has nothing to do with how representative SR is or acquiring SR?

    Hmm, okay.
    Willfully obtuse, much?
    The person wasn’t complaining about SR. They literally made a statement that they are expected to carry a match. He/she didn’t make a comment or complaint about how SR is unfair or broken or how accurate it is. It was more along the lines of if they want to climb they are expected to carry groups, which is more a statement about teamwork.
    Now, you can twist that into being about SR, and hell I might even be wrong and their comment was about that, but I took it to be more about expectations vs reality of skill vs teamwork. Not a direct correlation of how theSR works.
    If you want to make it about SR issues, then we could discuss all day about how that works, what is known and not known, as well as the merits and downfalls between Blizzard’s system and a simple ladder. My opinion is a ladder system would be better as it actually places more emphasis on teamwork rather than the whole me me me mentality we come across in Overwatch.
    Last edited by Eapoe; 2019-05-06 at 06:31 PM.

  5. #9965
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Willfully obtuse, much?
    The person wasn’t complaining about SR. They literally made a statement that they are expected to carry a match. He/she didn’t make a comment or complaint about how SR is unfair or broken or how accurate it is. It was more along the lines of if they want to climb they are expected to carry groups, which is more a statement about teamwork.
    Now, you can twist that into being about SR, and hell I might even be wrong and their comment was about that, but I took it to be more about expectations vs reality of skill vs teamwork. Not a direct correlation of how theSR works.
    If you want to make it about SR issues, then we could discuss all day about how that works, what is known and not known, as well as the merits and downfalls between Blizzard’s system and a simple ladder. My opinion is a ladder system would be better as it actually places more emphasis on teamwork rather than the whole me me me mentality we come across in Overwatch.
    The SR system sucks, it doesn't punish people enough for bad performance. A lot of people end up higher than they should be because they play with someone that's actually capable of carrying. They need to ramp up the performance metric by like 10x, make those people getting carried get like 1-2 points for a win and the carry like 50, so they can't be carried by people and have to get better themselves and if they lose they should lose 50 and the carry lose like 1-2.

  6. #9966
    A lot of people are stuck because they hard tilt and don't communicate with their teams and are unwilling to role fill(though any team composition can win up to like masters.) If you can shotcall and keep your team cheerful your W/L/D will improve.

    People in lower elos also tend to retreat wayyyyyy too much from winnable engagements.

    Real Example: Your Rein is dead but their Ana and Soldier are dead, your Moira is screaming at everyone "BACK UP BACK UP REIN IS DEAD......"

  7. #9967
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirza View Post
    People in lower elos also tend to retreat wayyyyyy too much from winnable engagements.
    LOL WAT
    it's more like they run in 1 vs 5/6 one after another instead of grouping up...

  8. #9968
    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    LOL WAT
    it's more like they run in 1 vs 5/6 one after another instead of grouping up...
    These are not mutually exclusive?

  9. #9969
    I tried King's Row Story three times tonight. Three times we lost our Tracer before halfway through. Three times we still made it to the last corridor. Made it on third but fuck leavers.

  10. #9970
    Story Uprising needs a rebalance, Torb was reworked as well as Mercy, and Uprising was made with the old Mass Rez and Molten Core in mind. Plus Tracer bomb was nerfed.
    "It's 2013 and I still view the internet on a 560x192 resolution monitor!"

  11. #9971
    Can people just fucking STOP endorsing me for one fucking week or something? For fucks sake is it tiring to have to avoid playing heals and spam leave games during set-up just to try to get it down when someone puts me up at 4.

  12. #9972
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Willfully obtuse, much?
    The person wasn’t complaining about SR. They literally made a statement that they are expected to carry a match. He/she didn’t make a comment or complaint about how SR is unfair or broken or how accurate it is. It was more along the lines of if they want to climb they are expected to carry groups, which is more a statement about teamwork.
    Now, you can twist that into being about SR, and hell I might even be wrong and their comment was about that, but I took it to be more about expectations vs reality of skill vs teamwork. Not a direct correlation of how theSR works.
    If you want to make it about SR issues, then we could discuss all day about how that works, what is known and not known, as well as the merits and downfalls between Blizzard’s system and a simple ladder. My opinion is a ladder system would be better as it actually places more emphasis on teamwork rather than the whole me me me mentality we come across in Overwatch.
    The mentality that you have to carry games stems from contempt for your teammates and personal belief that you are superior and thus not in the correct matchmaking pool that SR dictates. You can argue I am generalising for sure but that's where all this bitching arises from. People don't understand they are matched with teammates because those people are similar in ability.

    What do you mean by a ladder system? I would describe the current iteration as ladder (and so does the community in general, no?), you win games, you go up, you are matched against tougher opponents.

    And yeah I could talk about the SR system for hours but it generally boils down to people blaming their teammates and refusing to concede they could improve themselves, which is just tiring.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rarhyx View Post
    LOL WAT
    it's more like they run in 1 vs 5/6 one after another instead of grouping up...
    Both are fairly common. Gold and plat boys just love to dick around in chokes 'til the timer runs down lul.

  13. #9973
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    People don't understand they are matched with teammates because those people are similar in ability.
    That's not what SR does. There's a huge difference in skill between people on similar SR. It matches people with similar SR, not similar skill. With how random it is whether you win or not when you play with randoms, it is not indicative of skill in any way. When I play 6-stack, there's a huge difference in how fun the games are but I only have 6-stack every now and then and my SR shoots up whenever I play 6-stack instead of solo.
    Last edited by Darya; 2019-05-07 at 01:28 PM.

  14. #9974
    Quote Originally Posted by Darya View Post
    That's not what SR does. There's a huge difference in skill between people on similar SR. It matches people with similar SR, not similar skill. With how random it is whether you win or not when you play with randoms, it is not indicative of skill in any way. When I play 6-stack, there's a huge difference in how fun the games are but I only have 6-stack every now and then and my SR shoots up whenever I play 6-stack instead of solo.
    That's because you're being carried. If you play lots of games your SR comes to reflect your skill, ergo you are matched with people of a similar skill. Sure, there is an element of randomness because humans are random, people can have bad days and play well below their SR or vice versa but generally SR is a good indicator of skill.

    Playing in stacks blurs the line a little, if you're not matched against a six-stack your SRs are weighted a little higher to account for the potentially increased coordination, but that's not enough, 6-stacks will generally roll non-6-stacks and only have reasonably balanced games vs. another 6.

    But sure, I can pretend you're better than gold or plat or whatever your SR is if you want, it's not like I haven't heard it a thousand times before.

  15. #9975
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    That's because you're being carried. If you play lots of games your SR comes to reflect your skill, ergo you are matched with people of a similar skill. Sure, there is an element of randomness because humans are random, people can have bad days and play well below their SR or vice versa but generally SR is a good indicator of skill.

    Playing in stacks blurs the line a little, if you're not matched against a six-stack your SRs are weighted a little higher to account for the potentially increased coordination, but that's not enough, 6-stacks will generally roll non-6-stacks and only have reasonably balanced games vs. another 6.

    But sure, I can pretend you're better than gold or plat or whatever your SR is if you want, it's not like I haven't heard it a thousand times before.
    You really have no clue about the game at all if you think everyone on the same SR is on equal skill level. Delusional is the word for that.

  16. #9976
    Quote Originally Posted by Darya View Post
    You really have no clue about the game at all if you think everyone on the same SR is on equal skill level. Delusional is the word for that.
    They generally are, excluding smurfs, cheaters and other outliers. What makes you think they're not? Do you not climb as you improve? I've generally found that I do, I also find that I drop when I play poorly, or I try to learn a new position/hero.

    Although if you're just gonna do the whole MY TEAM ARE BAD LOL shtick and try to convince me you don't belong at 2500 then feel free to not respond.

  17. #9977
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    They generally are, excluding smurfs, cheaters and other outliers. What makes you think they're not? Do you not climb as you improve? I've generally found that I do, I also find that I drop when I play poorly, or I try to learn a new position/hero.

    Although if you're just gonna do the whole MY TEAM ARE BAD LOL shtick and try to convince me you don't belong at 2500 then feel free to not respond.
    No, they're not. Do you know why? Because just because you're good at playing a certain character doesn't mean you can play as well on another character. People keep switching to characters they can't play as well as the one they're the best at. If I switch to Genji, you won't see me playing like a player who got to diamond as Genji, I'll play like a fucking gold Genji because I'm not good at him. Me being in Diamond doesn't automatically make me good at playing all characters, the same applies to others. A lot of games when playing solo you end up with 6 players who all play DPS characters and some switching to play tanks or healers. They're not going to be as good as someone who played those roles to diamond, because they got there playing DPS.

    My rating can fluctuate over 500 in a week due to throwers/disconnects/leavers. It's just broken. Not to mention, facing 6-stacks when you're playing solo.
    Last edited by Darya; 2019-05-07 at 02:10 PM.

  18. #9978
    Quote Originally Posted by Darya View Post
    No, they're not. Do you know why? Because just because you're good at playing a certain character doesn't mean you can play as well on another character. People keep switching to characters they can't play as well as the one they're the best at. If I switch to Genji, you won't see me playing like a player who got to diamond as Genji, I'll play like a fucking gold Genji because I'm not good at him. Me being in Diamond doesn't automatically make me good at playing all characters, the same applies to others. A lot of games when playing solo you end up with 6 players who all play DPS characters and some switching to play tanks or healers. They're not going to be as good as someone who played those roles to diamond, because they got there playing DPS.
    Absolutely, but this is why I mentioned it is true once you have played many games. Affects like these average out, if your team members play heroes they're poor on 50% of the time, then so do the enemy team. This, in fact, is a benefit to you increasing your SR, the more inconsistent you assert that other players are then the easier it will be for your to leverage an advantage by playing well using heroes you are good at piloting.

  19. #9979
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Absolutely, but this is why I mentioned it is true once you have played many games. Affects like these average out, if your team members play heroes they're poor on 50% of the time, then so do the enemy team. This, in fact, is a benefit to you increasing your SR, the more inconsistent you assert that other players are then the easier it will be for your to leverage an advantage by playing well using heroes you are good at piloting.
    You shouldn't have to play many games. Last season I had 13 hours played, my rating fluctuated like hell during that time and my highest for the season was around 3200. Know where I ended the season? 2800. My lowest for the season? 2300. If you need to play hundreds of hours, it's a broken system. I can play whenever I want to in CS, how many games I want to and never have to deal with this fluctuation in my rank there.

    OW has one of the shittiest ranked modes I've ever played. It also doesn't help that we can't play with people who speak the same languages as us. I get pissed at Russians who only speak Russian, even if I know Russian myself. Why? Because the rest of the team don't know Russian. Encounter this very frequently in ranked as well, people who won't speak a common language.

    You don't see this huge fluctuation in ranks in other games with ranked modes, which means OW has a broken ranked system.
    Last edited by Darya; 2019-05-07 at 02:31 PM.

  20. #9980
    Quote Originally Posted by Darya View Post
    You shouldn't have to play many games. Last season I had 13 hours played, my rating fluctuated like hell during that time and my highest for the season was around 3200. Know where I ended the season? 2800. If you need to play hundreds of hours, it's a broken system. I can play whenever I want to in CS, how many games I want to and never have to deal with this fluctuation in my rank there.

    OW has one of the shittiest ranked modes I've ever played.
    So don't play it, if it's that upsetting for you. I'm not necessarily defending the necessity to grind to improve/stabilise your SR, but it makes sense given the complexity of the game, you essentially have 5 different positions, each filled by different characters with different abilities and playstyles and then on top of that you have the synergies or lack thereof given which heroes are chosen to fill which positions.

    Also, your season end being 400 SR lower than your peak doesn't mean much, that's 16 losses (thereabouts, there's the plat and below performance adjusted thing too). What's your mean SR? How many games played total? How often do you play your preferred hero/position? Throwing out random numbers is meaningless without context. Do you expect to play 20 games and have the matchmaking system understand your ability perfectly? I think that's unreasonable.

    Given the number of variables, I think SR does a good job of reflecting ability, unless they're obvious smurfs/throwers it's usually pretty easy to identify bronze/silver players vs. gold/plat etc.

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